Talk:Ganachakra

Gamachakra or Gaṇacakra
The transliteration is inconsistent. If the sanskrit is correct here (गणचक्र) then I do not understand why ण is being transliterated with 'm' when the letter is a retroflex 'ṇ' as in Kṛṣṇa. Perhaps this should be changed to an 'n' making it Ganachakra. Otherwise a proper IAST transliteration should appear here (gaṇacakra). Having the title and body spelling it differently is illogical and confusing. Iṣṭa Devata (talk) 18:11, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Yab-yum & Ganachakra
You said: "What does sex have to do with tsog? I perform tsog regularly, there is no 'symbolic coitus'!."

There are many confluent and divergent traditions of Ganachakra... remember as a meme it entered into Vajrayana from Tantric Hinduism as well as from other traditions and was informed by Bon and Himalayan animism...your historical understanding and insight into the practice is cursory if you do not have an understanding of Yab-yum in relation to Ganachakra. I am more than happy to enter into dialogue and collaboration with you.

Namaste in agape

Walking my talk in Beauty

B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 10:56, 28 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, what he said it true for me too, but perhaps not it the way he meant. That is, there ain't nothing symbolic about it! IPSOS (talk) 12:50, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

To be worked into this article
tshogs kyi rim pa bzhi

B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 06:57, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

"fake" or "take"?
The word "fakes" struck me as jarringly out of place in this sober scholarly quotation, as well as hard to make any sense of in its usual meaning and syntax, and I guessed that it was a transcription typo by the Wikipedia editor. However, it is in the online source (Woodroffe 1918, Shakti and Shâkta, Chapter Twenty-Seven: The Pañcatattva (The Secret Ritual)); but I am still convinced it was a typo there. As evidence, consider the following two paragraphs from earlier in the chapter (boldface added):


 * The substitutional Tattvas of Pashvacara also do not answer to their names, being other substances which are taken as substitutes of wine, meat, fish (see Kulacudamani; Bhairavayamala, Ch. I). These have been variously described and sometimes as follows: In lieu of wine the Pashu should, if a Brahmana, take milk, if a Kshattriya ghee, if a Vaishya honey, and if a Shudra a liquor made from rice. Coconut water in a bell-metal utensil is also taken as a substitute. Salt, ginger, sesamum, wheat beans (Mashakalai) and garlic are some of the substitutes for meat; the white brinjal vegetable, red radish, masur (a kind of gram), red sesamum and Paniphala (an aquatic plant) take the place of fish. Paddy, rice, wheat and grain generally are Mudra both in Tamasik (Pashvacara) and Rajasik (Viracara) Sadhanas. In lieu of Maithuna there may be an offering of flowers with the hands formed into the gesture called Kachapa-mudra, the union of the Karavira flower (representative of the Linga) with the Aprajita (Clitoria) flower which is shaped as and represents the female Yoni and other substitutes, or there may be union with the Sadhaka's wife. On this and some other matters here dealt with there is variant practice.


 * The Kaulikarcanadipika speaks of what is called the Adyatattvas. Adyamadya or wine is hemp (Vijaya), Adyashuddhi or meat is ginger (Adraka), Adyamina or fish is citron (Jambira), Adyamudra is Dhanyaja that is, made from paddy and Adyashakti is the worshipper's own wife. Quoting from the Tantrantara it says that worship without these Adya forms is fruitless. Even the strictest total abstainer and vegetarian will not object to "wine" in the shape of hot milk or coconut water, or to ginger or other substitutes for meat. Nor is there any offense in regarding sexual union between the Sadhaka and his wife not as a mere animal function but as a sacrificial rite (Yajña).

On the basis of these considerations I am editing fake to take.

--Thnidu (talk) 14:59, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

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Split proposal
Pretty much the whole Tibetan Buddhist community calls it 'tsok' or 'tsog' - except Namkhai Norbu. On the other hand, it's called only ganachakra in Hindu tantra, which makes CNN's usage confusing. Both are whole article topics with their own peculiarities and different details of implementation with which these two articles could be expanded. Ganachakra is typically five-fold (the five Ms), while tsok is two-fold, min and rakta. Plus the level 5 vital article status really belongs to 'tsok' as it is in the outline under Buddhism... Skyerise (talk) 16:46, 7 January 2022 (UTC)


 * What came to mind immediately (i.e. without much consideration) was that points of dramatic divergence (Hindu <=> Buddhist?) might make clear where the one should become two. #FirstThought --Karma Chöpal BenTrem (talk) 22:49, 14 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I do have the experience to split it. I'll make a copy in user space and edit it down for the Buddhist side and drop you a note when I think it's ready to get your opinion. Once it's in place, this article can have the Buddhist material mostly removed. –Namchö Rigdzin Skyerise (talk) 02:27, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Righto, thanks for the reply. And the good effort! --BenTrem (talk) 03:25, 29 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Just out of curiousity, do you spell it tsog or tsok? Skyerise (talk) 02:29, 15 January 2022 (UTC)