Talk:Gang of 25

Copyright violation tag
Hello! I'm not sure who added the copyright violation tag, but I evaluated the use/copyright claim and I feel like this would be copyrighted under UK law and therefore copyrighted in the United States (due to whatever reasons). However, I feel like if someone used a NFCC image and explained the significance of the letter and the signatures, it could satisfy the NFCC requirements instead. I hope this helped! I would suggest removing it/replacing it, but I think that the quote usage falls into proper quote usage territory for now until a further decision is made. Regards, Sennecaster   ( What now? ) 14:44, 29 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Pinging and  in case you haven't seen this yet.  Sennecaster   ( What now? ) 01:21, 30 May 2021 (UTC)


 * I can't see how changing the media affects it acceptability for fair use? If anything a photograph of the letter would be worse, as we're introducing another copyright holder (though I know American courts have a much higher threshold of originality than British ones).  The wording of the letter, particularly that the writers express that they've spoken to Jopling previously, and the exact nature of their threat is important to the reader's understanding of the article.  I think it would be difficult to paraphrase or reduce the length of the quotation (from a source that is only two sentences long) while preserving meaning - Dumelow (talk) 06:40, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi, I added the tag. I wasn't sure whether quoting the entire text would be OK, so I tagged it with copyright violation (with a question mark). The text might be covered under the Open Government Licence, though I can't be sure. I think the idea of a NFCC image of the text in the PDF would be a good idea, honestly. &#8209;&#8209;Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 13:59, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for explaining; both of you. An image is easier to explain an NFUR for/argue for removal, and I think the authentic document itself would be historically significant so the signatures could be seen. I don't really know though, but in terms of copyright it is much easier to argue for an image of the text and signatures over a quote for fair use :). British TOO is extremely low and it's not going to be under OGL since OGL is pretty much post-2010 :P. Sennecaster   ( What now? ) 14:23, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
 * No worries, and thanks for your input. To be on the safe side I've removed the full quote and added a little detail on the wording of the letter to the main text.  I've kept a list of signatories as this is the only place they are listed.  If someone wants to upload a copy of the letter as a fair-use image, I have no issues with that - Dumelow (talk) 06:39, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

List of members?
I'm not seeing a list of the 25 members of the Gang in this article, and I think that would be a useful addition. Cheers &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 08:58, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi Amakuru, I previously included one as a table (see this revision) but it's addition was reverted by Neveselbert as being "too unwieldy and distracting". I think it is useful myself, in providing links to their articles which the current image does not.  I would welcome further discussion on this point - Dumelow (talk)
 * Yes, I think we definitely need that table, or something similar which lists the members. It it were the Gang of 300, that might be a different matter (although even then, a subpage with the full list might be warranted) but with 25 it should be an easy matter to have them listed in Wikitext, not just in an image - and I'd wikilink them all from there, including even members mentioned elsewhere, for completeness. Cheers &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 10:37, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I think a col-list of members in a separate section would be a better idea to avoid being unwieldly or distracting in juxtaposition with prose. &#8209;&#8209;Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 10:44, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the responses. Good idea with the col-list.  I've added one to the article and welcome any changes/improvements.  I still think it is important to separate the list by how they voted on 8 December as it helps to show who the "hardcore" opponents of Thatcher's economic policies were - Dumelow (talk) 11:46, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the responses, and I think it looks good now. Cheers &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 15:06, 22 June 2021 (UTC)