Talk:Gary McHale

Notability of Gary McHale
A tag has been placed on Gary McHale requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article appears to be about a real person, organization (band, club, company, etc.), or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable. If this is the first page that you have created, then you should read the guide to writing your first article.

If you think that you can assert the notability of the subject, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the article (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm the subject's notability under Wikipedia guidelines.

For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. JCSabin3 (talk) 00:09, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Gary McHale is a self proclaimed civil rights activist who has wedged himself into the Caledonia Land Dispute.

McHale leads numerous protests throughout Southern, Ontario, Canada. He also has formed a March for Freedom company and a for profit CANACE company to profit fighting land claim disputes in Southern, Ontario.

McHale has been arrested for challenging OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino in an attempt to raise a Canadian flag. McHale also took the protest to Fantino's personal home.

McHale is the subject of hundred's of reputable news stories throughout Ontario and Canada.

McHale and his companies are lead stories throughout Canada about his fight against the Canadian government in relation to native land claims.


 * Aside from the notability discussion, please read the Wikipedia guide to writing your first article as well as the Manual of Style. Booglamay (talk) 00:44, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I am working on the article as fast as I can. I can prove beyond a doubt that this subject meets your guidelines. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JCSabin3 (talk • contribs) 00:49, 18 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The major failing of this article right now is the lack of independent reliable sources. The anonymous letter of support is doubly unusable: not only is it not a fact-checked news story, but also, since we can't identify the author, we also can't verify that it was released under a GFDL-compatible license. —C.Fred (talk) 05:37, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Speedy declined
Whilst there are multiple issues with this article I have just declined the speedy deletion request as I feel that a certain notability is asserted - questionable whether it is enough to pass WP:BIO, particularly with the absence of secondary sources but enough to get through speedy. AFD is the best place to deal with this. I have also removed two sections from the article - the first was a biographical paragraph which contained some controversial remarks about McHale's past and circumstances which were entirely unsourced; the second was the letter mentioned above which, until proved otherwise we must assume is a copyvio. Kind regards, nancy  (talk) 08:42, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I fail to see why this was declined as his article obviously lies. He states that he owns the site, however, by his own site, http://www.caledoniawakeupcall.com/updates/080225spectator3.html, he no longer owns the site. This is disingenuous and misleading. Drupjohn (talk) 04:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * As I said, WP:AFD is the most appropriate forum should you (or anyone) wish to pursue deletion - speedy criteria are too specific for this one. Kind regards, nancy  (talk) 15:46, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Conversation regarding reliable sources copied from User talk:Nancy
start of copied section I am currently adding all the links to news stories regarding this topic. In fact over a dozen links have been added but are continually deleted.

Negative news appear okay to link to but not positive news stories. Maybe I should be allowed to finish with all the links before it is deleted and decided whether it is unverified statements.

Deleting the whole post when there are many links cannot be reasonable and then claimed the statements are unverified.

Please reply ASAP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GaryMcHale (talk • contribs) 13:08, 18 May 2008 (UTC)


 * At the risk of pre-empting Nancy (sorry Nancy) I would point to the message I left on your talk page. Blogs are not citable links, unless they are extremely well known, and blogs that you right certainly are not suitable. Interviews with yourself are COI, it's hardly likely that you are going to cover both sides of any argument. The only usable cite you had actually told a different story altogether; which was what prompted me to go on the mass edit to purges your self promotion. Please read WP:Cite to get an idea of what is acceptable; whilst the Sachem Gazette may be a good local newspaper it's not a suitable citation source, and letters pages certainly are not.. --Blowdart | talk 13:17, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I concur 100% with what Blowdart has said. nancy  (talk) 13:20, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Why are links to OPP reports and court transcripts unacceptable?

see Court Transcripts

see copy —Preceding unsigned comment added by GaryMcHale (talk • contribs) 13:26, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Please see Blowdart's eloquent explanation above. Also those two links (to your own website) are dead. nancy  (talk) 13:28, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

The links have been corrected

--GaryMcHale (talk) 13:34, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you Gary. I will look at them shortly although the fact that they are on your own website is an immediate red flag. In the meantime could I ask you not to make a new section header every time you post a reply - just the one will do for the whole thread. Cheers, nancy  (talk) 13:39, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Nanny - Yes, they are links to my site but are scans of the legal documents and each have been used in other court cases. I am only interested in the write up on Wiki about me is fair and balance - I have hundreds of negative stories about me on my own site so I don't care about the negative stories - but we do need to have a balance story. May I suggest that I write up a section to be added and send it to you for review - if acceptable then you can post it? --GaryMcHale (talk) 13:47, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I have skimmed the documents but it would really help me if you explained what additional facts you intend to use them in support of? At the moment I am struggling to see that they add anything further than the existing citations in the article - i.e. that you are a protester who has been arrested and charged in the past?  nancy  (talk) 13:51, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I also note that the court transcript is very clearly marked "PUBLICATION BAN" which I assume means it cannot be published. I would need to double check but I am pretty sure that this means that Wikipedia cannot link to it anyway as it has been posted "illegally" in the first place. nancy  (talk) 14:01, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

The publication ban applies the following day's testimony - several details in this transcript has already been printed in media.

Just to post that I was arrested without the court testimony is very misleading. The statements by the Mayor and the local Member of Provincial Parliament along with the Hamilton Cop is very important to balance out why I was arrest and also what these people think about Gary McHale. I see above that it is claimed there is no positive stories have been done... well; the testimony from elected officials is evidence that maybe the media doesn't always print the truth.

What do you think the media printed during the early days of Martin Luther King Jr.?

Is Truth only to be found in a media story? --GaryMcHale (talk) 14:43, 18 May 2008 (UTC)


 * (again apologies Nancy - perhaps we ought to lift this to the article talk page?). There is no way to demonstrate the veracity of a pdf you have produced and you host. If you can find a notable (and again please see WP:Note) newspaper report of the statements made by officials at the trail then that would would be acceptable. If the transcript has been printed in reputable media (not on a blog please) then you could summarise and link to that report as a citation. On a personal note comparing yourself to MLK really doesn't help your image in my eyes. --Blowdart | talk 15:08, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

end of copied section

Positive Press
Gary you may be pleased to see I found something positive; after someone linked to a news article and left that bit out. Hopefully this goes some way to offering balance. --Blowdart | talk 20:30, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Erase The Page Altogether
It serves no purpose other than to give Gary a big head and make him feel more important than he really is. Given the fact that he's edited himself is all the more reason why it should be erased. Othellobloke (talk) 19:07, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm a little late past your posting, but your suggestion is ridiculous. It doesn't really matter what you and I might think of Gary, he has been/is a news story, and is a person of note in the Native issues.  Who would be better than Gary to edit it, so long as he follows Wikipedia's standards, which, from what I can see on the talk page, he has been trying to do.  I suspect you are letting your personal feelings get in the way of what the spirit of Wikipedia is. Dphilp75 (talk) 01:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

McHale's Wiki page is laughable
It is sad to see that someone, in this case, Gary McHale, has resorted to this in order to seek some measure notoriety. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Caledonia45 (talk • contribs) 20:40, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

I would add to the many comments above - this page is of very low value. It is heavily contributed to by people with a close connection to the subject - this only serves to narrow the point of view (i.e. decrease its objectivity). It lacks objectivity - its self-serving - it promotes an agenda without providing alternative opinions or points of view - and persons or entries that attempt to show an alternative opinion are deleted as soon as someone posts them. This is clearly a violation of the Wikipedia rules. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.159.226.118 (talk) 15:27, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

McHale's personal history is wrong - how can it be corrected?
Need is the correct information:

McHale was born in Kingston, Ontario and spent most of his childhood in the Kingston area, including Sydenham and Odessa (near Napanee). In 1981 he was married to Christine and moved to Scarborough (in Toronto) and then in 1995 moved to Richmond Hill which is north of Toronto. He is a computer programmer specializing in taxes and accounting software. On June 17, 2006 he started his website tracing the issues related to the on-going occupation in Caledonia. In 2008 he moved to Binbrook (part of Hamilton and just 15 minutes to Caledonia) where he has rented a house for the past three years.

If you wish to verify the truthfulness of his history you can contact Gary McHale at (Redacted) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.28.12.17 (talk) 15:10, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you McHale? If not, what is your relationship with him? If you are personally connected to McHale, you have a conflict of interest and should not edit this article. However, if you want to change the article, you can suggest changes with reliable sources here on the Talk page. I've reverted your most recent changes to the article. Please do not include e-mail addresses on talk pages.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:46, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Two years after you were informed of the false information about my birth place etc., you still have false information up about me. This tells me everything I need to know about wikipedia - completely unreliable. I have shown my wikipedia page in court at various times to stop the other side from using wikipedia as a credible source of information. Once a judge sees that you cannot even get my birthplace correct after being told to change it then the issue is settled - wikipedia isn't about facts/truth but about what the media reports. Clearly there is a difference. In each case the courts rule wikipedia pages are not admissible in court.

Now you can post again about how my true facts about my birthplace isn't allowed on your website because I have a conflict of interest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.28.12.17 (talk) 18:26, 6 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Gary. I'll call you that for now. The point is that anybody can come to Wikipedia and write what you just wrote. We have no way of knowing if the person who wrote it is really you or someone just pretending. If you can reference some kind of official document that backs up what you claim, then the page can be edited. DJ Clayworth (talk) 18:34, 6 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Pretty reasonable source here: http://garymchale2010.wordpress.com/about/ Obviously written by the subject but should be good for basic biographical details, if they are unchallenged. DJ Clayworth (talk) 18:40, 6 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Where are the reliable secondary sources about your birthplace? All we have is a claim by an unregistered user with no way to verify the claim. We can't even verify who you claim to be; there's no way for the average user to tell, from your post, whether you're truly McHale, an OPP operative, a random third party, or anybody in between.


 * I've removed the birthplace from the article because it is not verified. The general rule is that the birthplace will not be added to the article until there is a reliable source for it. Published sources are preferred. There might be an alternative route via WP:OTRS. If you open a ticket through that system and correspond with one of the volunteer team by email, they may take other steps to verify your identity, vet the information, and place it into the article. It would then go in with a reference to the OTRS ticket; while we couldn't see the ticket, we could see that a ticket exists, so it's been added within Wikipedia policy. —C.Fred (talk) 18:42, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

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