Talk:Gary Ridgway/Archive 1

other
Ridgway was arrested in 1982 and 2001 for charges related to prostitution - does that mean he was arrested for prostitution, or for soliciting a prostitute? RickK 03:11, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)


 * The phrase "charges related to prostitution" is what it says in the sources, although from what I know about the case I'd suspect he was arrested for soliciting a prostitute.


 * BTW, why do you want to merge this article with the Green River Killer? I'd say that there's a lot of data that should go into the GRK article (e.g., suspects, names of victims) that wouldn't properly fit in this article. Likewise, there is some chilling suggestions that Ridgway's victims include more than those attributed to the GRK. Certainly the 2 articles overlap, but they are not identical. -- llywrch 04:14, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)


 * Because there is so much overlap. RickK


 * Merged. But if the "murder" section gets too big then it can be summarized and spun back into the "killer" article. --mav 08:25, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)


 * Only at the present time. As I see it, the article about the Green River Killer should focus more on the the details of the investigation, much of which had nothing to do with Ridgway. For example, from the beginning the police were worried that they might miss leads, or destroy evidence & brought in a consultant who had worked on a previous serial killer case. (Which explains their thinking when they took DNA samples from Ridgway.) I also remember that there was one person identified as a suspect in the 1980s who lived in Spokane; he remained in my memory because Ann Rule opined that he was a very likely suspect, & that he had been renting a room to a woman (a fact that still creeps me out -- "My landlord kills women for a hobby.")


 * As for the Ridgway article, there is little more that can be said about him than what existed pre-merge, except for the eventual details of his sentencing, & that he is still the suspect in at least 2 more murders. -- llywrch 17:36, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

An interesting bit of trivia: the "undisclosed location" where Ridgway was being held in 2003 was the same location used by King County for the recount in the governor's race in Nov/Dec 2004. I think it would be in bad taste to put it in the article, though. 209.182.101.246 19:59, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

As the "most prolific serial killer in history" the article DEFINITELY needs his picture. And those of some of his victims. V M  23:49, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

forms of torture including rape and necrophilia. I'd think torture concerns inflicting pain, which in turn implies a living victim, which would mean necrophilia shouldn't be called a form of torture --Gijsterbeek (talk) 20:30, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Most prolific?
This sounds like someone's opinion. By what criteria do we establish a serial killer as more prolific than others?


 * By the number of people they've killed as compared to others... hey

Wow, I've come back and seen the personal attack (lame). My question arose from the use of the word "prolific" in the article, not the criteria. Anyway.

(Personal attack removed) Please stay civil. Thanks, Petros471 10:31, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 * IMHO, in this case, the meaning is clear and it's not a POV. For example, saying he was the worst serial killer or the most terrible or whatever would be a POV. Nil Einne 14:00, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The phrase most prolific in itself is quantitative (quantative = can be counted or defined in terms of quantity). Prolific means "characterized by abundant production" which also indicates quantity, and well, you should know what most means. The phrase in this context refers to the number of confirmed or proven victims, which in this case means backed up by evidence - like a body, DNA, clothing or other personal effects, knowledge of the location of the body, etc. that corroborates the confession details like names, dates, descriptions, etc, and even could mean in this precise context refer to the "actual measurable number of proven victims for which a serial killer has been found guilty and convicted".  Since a quantitive phrase is a statement that can be proven, it is, therefore, not a POV.


 * Sorry for the vocabulary lesson, but it seemed the easiest way to explain it. There are certainly many serial killers that have confessed to having killed many more victims than Ridgway; in fact, many serial killers inflate the number of victims when they do finally confess (many of this number are never actually recovered), but if the confessions are not backed up by the physical evidence they "do not count", if you pardon the expression (as all the victims should count), to the final body count. The number of Ridgway's victims confirmed by physical evidence is 48, even though he claims to have murdered at least 71 victims. Now, whether you actually agree with the way law enforcement actually defines proof, that is your God-given right as a human being, and starts getting into an entirely different subject. But the descrepancy is over terminology, which I obviously felt merited a vocab lesson, not a lesson in American law...  ChÿnaDragön (talk • contribs) 20:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Bold
Why are three of sentences in bold in the first paragraph? I'll revert them unless there's some reason. Gary Seven 00:53, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Estimates
The article says there are estimates which are much higher. But there are no source for these estimates nor are any mentioned. Are these estimates which were made after he confessed and/or estimates still believed by a resonable number of people or simply estimates before he confessed and the actual number revealed. I ask especially because it would seem strange that he would confess to so many unknown murders but still leave some out, especially given that this would risk his plea if every proven. Then again, who can ever understand the mind of a serial killer? Nil Einne 13:49, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, according to the book The Search for the Green River Killer, Ridgway himself thought he had committed his first back in the 70s, and probably some more, but he couldn't remember. Thanos6 13:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

2001 arrest for prostitution related
The article states he was arrested in 2001 for prostitution related offenses. However material later used for DNA was collected in 1987. Was this for the 1982 arrest or was it voluntary (obviously he didn't know about DNA at the time) given that he was a suspect? Also, did the 2001 arrest have any affect? Or was the identification via DNA from 1987 preceeding differently and only later people realised this was the guy arrested for prostition related offenses Nil Einne 13:54, 24 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree, as it is currently worded it leaves a lot of questions in the mind of the reader.--BruceGrubb (talk) 10:07, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Other Killers?
It is a long history of Seattle to have negligence in policing and too many longstanding serial killers in the community. Some people suspect police involvement. Such as the website http://www.greenriverkiller.com/ that has been on the Internet for years. People involved with Dan Ring http://seattlepi.com/specials/ring/ who was also under investigation at the same time, and was placed in the same hotel as Ridgeway in the 80's.

The other strange thing about the inability- gross negligence of law enforcement in Seattle and serial killers is the FTRA gang. The FTRA had connections to a child sex pornography ring. The police reactions to any reports of there activity was "they were cleaning up the streets" referring to the murderous removal of the street children. Until the time they killed the Bellingham student.

Many people in Seattle live in fear and oppression from the government who it seems that too many times they are on the side of the criminals. The other fact is that in England they could catch criminals in other states they catch murders. These serial killers are sick they are not killing in self-defense yet in sadism and Seattle as a society is sick, by allowing these people to survive and prey amongst them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vickymiss2001 (talk • contribs) 04:33, 28 December 2006 (UTC).

Not really relevant to the article, is it? Should maybe be in a section on conspiracy theories. "Same hotel as Ridgway" is straight out of some JFK book...the man has confessed to them all. Oh, and that website you mentioned is entirely useless to Wikipedia. Famous Mortimer 14:53, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Relations
The sidebar links his son as General Matthew Ridgway, born half a century earlier. I have no clue how to fix this, so could someone please do it?

I'm sure his son was named Matthew Ridgway, but the link is incorrect at the moment. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.21.178.124 (talk) 07:15, 13 April 2007 (UTC).

needs updating
i just read the ridgway entry for the first time today, and i can already see that it needs some revising. right off the bat, there are errors: ridgway was not arrested for the murder of 7 women in 2001 based on DNA evidence. he was only arrested for four murders at that time, and there was not DNA evidence connecting him to all of those -- it was a combination of DNA evidence and other factors linking the crimes (proximity of bodies, similar treatment of bodies). the additional three victims linked by paint evidence were added in the spring of 2003.

if this article is primarily based on the references listed at the bottom (bob keppel, and ann rule), that may be part of the problem. although rule's book, at least, is fairly comprehensive, these two works together are missing a lot of key points (and tend to be somewhat self-serving, in my opinion). the article would be enhanced by including information from "the search for the green river killer" (revised edition) by guillen and smith, "defending gary" by mark prothero, "gary ridgway: the green river killer" by the staff of the king county journal, and a few others.

once i get a better grasp on wikipedia editing, i can add some of that information. Iahklu 23:14, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 16:12, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Murder section
This section doesn't actually talk much about the murders OR the victims; instead it talks about the investigation, arrest, and the plea bargain. IMHO I think that this should be relabeled "Investigation" and that an actual "Murders" section that deals with the timeline of the victims. While I'm well aware that that might seem to be a daunting undertaking, since when they initially found the bodies more and more bodies just kept turning up. But view sections for other serial killers, like Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, or even The BTK Killer, Dennis Rader. They all have a separate section for the killings and for the investigations and/or arrests. Anyone else understand what I'm getting at? Anyone care to tackle it? --Chÿna 20:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC) ChÿnaDragön (talk • contribs)

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Murderer of children
Shouldn't this article be in "American murderers of children" category?--201.254.76.161 (talk) 01:12, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * While Ridgway did murder women under the age of 18, most of the connotations of sexual predators of children are divided by the idea of "consent" and innocence. Ridgway's preferences were runaways and prostitutes, most of whom initially approached him for the purpose of sex. The argument can be made that because the girls were under the age of legal consent this article belongs in the American murderers of children category, but overall, Ridgway wasn't your classic pedophile. Go ahead and add it if you like, but be prepared for someone to come along and remove it.  I, personally, am ok with either adding it, or leaving it out.--Chÿna 21:45, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Questioning Details of Green River Case
The first "fact" I have a problem with is in the victim chart. This chart lists each victim by name, date they were murdered (or disappeared?) and date they were found. I'd like to know how someone came up with the dates that Marta Reeves was killed, because as far as I know, this is a complete unknown. I am her daughter. She did disappear around that time, but it is not known when she was killed. She disappeared between March and April of 1990 and discovered in September of the same year, though not identified until later.

The major fact I contend in this article is the statement that all of the murders- all 48- were committed in the early 80's. I think everyone knows that the first 4, the high profile cases, were committed in the early 80's, then Ridgway continued to murder for years afterwards. The victim chart shows this. My mother may be one of the latest victims, but it looks like Patricia Yellowrobe was later. (not sure on that.) It obviously takes a few years to take 48-49 lives, so I think the date is very important, and should reflect the actual cases, which were spread from the early 80's and into the 90's.

I think this case has lots of details and that the article should be combed over more carefully.

Sincerely, Nova Reeves ````12/01/08


 * Thank you for your input, Nova. I will make some of the quick changes you have suggested, but I don't have time now to get into more substantive changes. I encourage you to add some of the edits as you see fit.QuizzicalBee (talk) 19:28, 3 December 2008 (UTC) 19:28, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Nora, I agree that more details should be added and the article needs cleaning up. I think there should be a separate section for the murders (which as you can agree, would be extensive) and a separate section for his subsequent arrest and prosecution.  I don't like that the dates are all over the place, not just on the table, but also in the article.--Chÿna 21:45, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Resource for article improvement
If anyone wants to, this hulu Biography has great info on his life: http://www.hulu.com/watch/72126/biography-the-green-river-killer-the-life-of-gary-ridgway#s-p1-so-i1 (T /C  ) 22:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info. Will plan on viewing it soon. --Chÿna 21:45, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Cynthia Hinds
She is listed as one of the victims on the original indictment, but not on the list of victims. Reason? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.207.206.210 (talk) 17:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you have a link for the indictment? Somewhere in this article there is a reference to other victims on the indictment that are not listed here, and a request for a citation. We could get two birds with one stone here if you did...I'll also do some research when I get a chance.--Chÿna 21:45, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The entry for Hinds was apparently removed some time ago by a vandal. If you noticed (prior to my correcting it), the numeric ordering jumped from 4 to 6.  - June 25, 2009

Someone does need to fix this. Cynthia was one of the first victims found, in the Green River (thus giving the killer his name), and it's quite strange she's not in the list here. See http://karisable.com/grklistcomp.htm, http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/greenriver/index_1.html , and http://books.google.com/books?id=mCJONa_dxDMC&lpg=PA23&ots=KnzLOoESLx&dq=cynthia%20hinds%20%22green%20river%22&pg=PA23#v=onepage&q=cynthia%20hinds%20%22green%20river%22&f=false for sources. 24.35.61.43 (talk) 10:51, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Ted Bundy quote?
The section that says: "While being interviewed in the Florida State Penitentiary regarding his thoughts on how to catch the Green River Killer, Bundy stated that he would “try and get the bloodiest, coolest slasher movie that’s out there in a can which has never been broadcast or shown in the Pacific Northwest…then for a period of a couple of weeks I would photograph everybody that came in and out of those theaters.” Keppel, 2005, p. 229. " ...has nothing to do with the Green River Killer investigation or with Gary Ridgway. It was simply Bundy ranting in the way that he did, and it is not relevant to this article. I removed it. Further, I cleaned up, reworded and added a bit more information regarding Ted Bundy under that section. If you have any objections, let me know. --Chÿna 21:45, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

The Murders Section
There seems to be interest in adding more detailed information to this section, but as you can well imagine, the details of 48 murders could be not only challenging, but long. There could be a separate article titled "List of Green River Killer victims" or something. In the meantime, I propose adding a Arrest and Prosecution section, and moving around the events by date, that way we can see when the murder section starts getting too long without having to whittle down details of the investigation, arrest, and prosecution.--Chÿna 21:45, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

RE statement
What many dont know about Gary Ridgway is that he was a practiced muslim, and the Pierce County Sherrif department forced him to remove his traditional clothing so that he may "blend in". Upon recent visits in jail he has been seen praying in his cell asking allah for forgiveness.[1] He strangled them, mostly with his arm, but he would also use ligatures. After strangling the women, he would dump their bodies throughout King County.

There is no documentation for this. And the writing is very sophomoric. This needs to verified and or deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.116.5.176 (talk) 01:52, 23 April 2010 (UTC)


 * You need to show a reliable source to see if it fits into the article. Find a reliable source that can be WP:V and we can see what it looks like.  So get a good source and put it in then.  Hope this helps, -- Crohnie Gal  Talk  13:22, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Kase Ann Lee
Kase Ann Lee Because I'm too close to this, I'll let someone else edit, but she's my sister, and her name is misspelled here — it was first misspelled by the police, so it's understandable. It should be "Kasee Ann Lee". "Lee" was the name of the man she was living with at the time she was killed/went missing. She was born Kasee Ann Woods. It's a small thing, of course … but names are so important — especially to those left behind.

98.202.87.148 (talk) 22:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC)


 * We go by reliable sources. If a source is available to make the change then by all means but if not we have to stick to what the sources say.  Hope this helps, -- Crohnie Gal  Talk  10:49, 19 June 2010 (UTC)