Talk:Gasoline direct injection/Archive 1

Modes of operation
I doubt about the three modes of combustion. According to Mitsubishi site there are just two different modes of combustion (Ultra Lean Mode and the Superior Output Mode). I believe the stoichiomeric mode and full power modes can be merged into one as the time of injection is same and the difference lies only in the air fuel ratio.Gaurav1146 14:22, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure. I don't have exact numbers for the air-fuel rate at high loads, but even if full power mode is close to stoichiometric, Honda GDI engine is distinct in using variable intake and VVT to increase torque at low RPM. Otherwise it uses very much the same approach however (see the transcript above).
 * I think we should first streamline the article by adding some some extra bits from these two presentations and then look if the disntinction remains. Meanwhile, I'll try to find some detailed info on the Direct Ecotec engine, so we can make some further generalisations. To start with, here's a small bit from 2004 GM Technology Preview Displays. DmitryKo 18:06, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Well I saw a training video that Volkswagen put out about direct injection that idenified 3 modes of operation. I think it's a matter of the engineers and manufacturers.Mustang6172 07:37, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

"In full power mode, the air-fuel mixture is homogeneous as well and contains the maximum amount of fuel that is possible to ignite without knocking out, as defined by the compression ratio of the engine." This part needs attention. It would be more correct to say the minimum mass of fuel over the amount required for stoic that is possible to ignite without knocking. Also, the compression ratio doesn't alone dictate when a mix will knock/det. The mass of air in the chamber also plays a part. Zoolio 23:41, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

pump pressure
Does direct gasoline injection require high pressures similar to diesel injectors? I would guess injecting during the intake stroke doesn't, but injection during the compression stroke would, except that that mode is not operational during wide open throttle, so that it doesn't have to operate when the cylinders are fully filled.... ?? Gzuckier 15:31, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Blonde2max 11:54, 28 April 2006 (UTC) Diesel engines have MUCH higher compression ratios- often double that of petrol cars

So, my question is, what is the point of GDi? It seems to me that it's just petrol masquerading as diesel fuel. Why not just get a diesel engine, and enjoy all the other benefits of a diesel as well? Linns (talk) 00:30, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

There are other advantages of GDi as well, more power in a relatively smaller engine. Also the emissions are less than MPFI (multi point fuel injection) and Diesel engines, which is a major advantage with tuffer emission norms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Manannshah (talk • contribs) 17:22, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I have a question about "History" entry.
History The first direct injection system was developed by Bosch, and was introduced by Goliath and Gutbrod in 1952.

How first direct injection system was developed in 1952 if wiki page about DB 605 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB_605 states that it had direct fuel injection? Maybe first automotive direct injection system was developed in 52 but I wonder if it was any different from airplane.

Krzys

Additions to GDI page
Information on the most of the GDI products now available was missing from the Gasoline Direct Injection page. I added the names of four motorscooter manufacturers, three of the four outboard motor manufacturers, and a personal watercraft manufacturer. I also added information on why GDI is especially beneficial in two-stroke motors, and information on how GDI is being used to reduce deadly pollution in Southeast Asia and the Pacific. I am new to Wikipedia,and would appreciate any assistance in putting my additions into the proper format. I did include links to news articles and other sources to support my additions, and will work on the page to get it into the proper format when I have more time. --GT 08:01, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Changes to GDI page
I've changed most references to "GDI" to simply "DI" for two reasons. First, the wikipedia page on fuel injection itself references it as DI, so the change is consistent. Second, "GDi" is a trademark of Mitsubishi, and only Mitsubishi systems are referred to as GDI or GDi. Other automotive manufacturers have other acronyms for their direct injection systems.

Perhaps the usage of DI should be further changed to MPFI, which is what this page is talking about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.91.197.168 (talk) 13:45, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It's already covered in the article (with a citation), but "GDI" is only a Mitsubishi trademark with all capitals. The change to GDi was already made to clarify this. Referring to "DI" would cover direct injection in general, when of course the modern technologicy being discussed is its use in gasoline engines (diesel engines had been DI for years) --DeLarge 17:06, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

got rid of GM diesel info
there was info about an upcoming GM diesel engine and I deleted it. This article is on gasoline engines, NOT diesel... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.85.55.206 (talk) 14:39, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Later systems
I went ahead and altered the additional information about Ford's DI system.
 * While Ford made a press release concerning their direct injection system in 2001, it did not enter the marketplace until 2003. (correct me if I'm wrong)
 * Bringing up concept vehicles is trivial to the scope of this article.
 * Removed the EcoBoost main page redirect, all the other engines are highlighted.
 * For consistency I grouped the Ford products with each other.

Also I believe without the modifications that portion of the article becomes biased towards Ford's products. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.65.224.246 (talk) 17:28, 17 July 2009 (UTC)


 * In 2001 Ford released materials including information of a 1.1-liter engine under testing equipped with DI. All dates in that section pertain to the manufactures release of the technology to the marketplace. http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=9493 Ford released their system to the marketplace in 2003. 69.65.224.246 (talk)

I beg to differ, concept vehicles is the best way to demonstrate product development. Isn't trivial. Redirect isn't main article. Chronologically do as well consistency. Biased there's not, all modifications about Ford engines representation of factual information. Please do not remove referenced information from articles. Thank you. --Tomcha (talk) 19:30, 17 July 2009 (UTC)


 * This is not a Ford specific article, no need to mention a 2001 Ford engine that was not in production. And no need to specifically single out the EcoBoost engine.  Ford's concept vehicles are already discussed in Ford specific pages which again this article is not. Thanks 69.65.224.246 (talk)

Need to mention that a system conception is primary for objective facts of all developments, direct injection. --Tomcha (talk) 16:24, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The article clearly pertains to production engines, not everything bit of Ford minutiae. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.65.224.246 (talk) 22:56, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

You are wrong. Please do not remove relevant referenced fact from articles. Thank you. --Tomcha (talk) 18:43, 20 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Ford doesn't build a production 3-cyl engine. this isn't an article to detail Ford concepts and non-production engines. 69.65.224.246 (talk) 07:12, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

All right, concepts engines. Please do not assume ownership of articles. If you aren't willing to allow your contributions to be edited extensively or be redistributed by others, please do not submit them. Thank you. --Tomcha (talk) 20:19, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * not assuming ownership, none of the other editors have ever attempted to include any manufactures concept cars or non production engines, or focus on any single manufacturer so heavily adding any bit of trivial information, there is zero relevance in a general DI article to include engines from concept vehicles. Again please do not remove tags without discussion. 69.65.224.246 (talk) 20:32, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * also it has been pointed out to you in the Ford EcoBoost engine article that the Bobcat engine isn't a two-stroke engine, yet you choose to revert factual edits. That and all the bits of Ford information you are adding to this article can already be found in that same article. 69.65.224.246 (talk) 20:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * V8 EcoBoost (Bobcat) is a two-injection stroke engine, uses E85 injection and gasoline injection. --Tomcha (talk) 20:45, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Again you have been told by two editors that the Bobcat engine isn't a two-stroke engine. Clearly you do not know what a two stroke engine is. 69.65.224.246 (talk) 21:00, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I am a little concerned with this part of the article -> "Twin-fuel engines

Code named Bobcat the new twin-fuel engine from Ford. It is based on a 5.0L V8 engine block, but it uses E85 cylinder injection and gasoline port injection. The engine was co-developed with Ethanol Boosting Systems, LLC of Cambridge, Massachusetts, which calls its trademarked process DI Octane Boost. The direct injection of ethanol increases the octane of regular gasoline from 88-91 octane to more than 150 octane. The Bobcat project was unveiled in Department of Energy and Society of Automotive Engineers in April 2009.[41][42]"

Ethanol does not have that high of an octane, and mixing it with gas would not cause that... perhaps a ethanol/water mixture could reach that level, but if that is the case it should state it.

For the record. Ethanol's octane is 129 according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.177.147.18 (talk) 20:10, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia does not publish original research or original thought, WP:OR. --Tomcha (talk) 19:01, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Article needs graphics
This article needs an animated schematic.

If it can be done for nuclear reactors ( and  have them, then surely fans of the auto industry, which is much larger, can do one.  rhyre (talk) 10:44, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

WWII aircraft engine unlisted
According to Nakajima Ki-84 page, the fighter used a direct injection version of the Nakajima Homare engine.92.58.53.99 (talk) 22:39, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

more explanation
The "theory or operation" section needs a new starting paragraph that explains in some detail the statement from the intro: "The gasoline is highly pressurized, and injected via a common rail fuel line directly into the combustion chamber of each cylinder, as opposed to conventional multi-point fuel injection that happens in the intake tract, or cylinder port."

It does not make sense to begin a "theory of operation" with the effects or consequences (advantages) of the technology whose workings have not yet been explained. 65.200.157.179 (talk) 19:23, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Merge proposal with Stratified charge engine
Since no-one appears to have started a discussion on the proposed merger of Stratified charge engine into this article, I shall begin the discussion:

Oppose: The concepts may be related, but they are not identical. Two notable stratified charge systems, Honda's Compound Vortex Controlled Combustion (CVCC) from 1975 to 1983 and Piaggio's system as used in the Vespa ET2, use carburetors to vapourize the fuel. Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 13:40, 27 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Oppose It's nonsense to even suggest this. We might as well merge clutch and carburettor. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:26, 27 May 2013 (UTC)