Talk:Gautama (disambiguation)

Any reason this should be at Gotama instead of Gautama? --lk (talk) 09:32, 22 November 2007 (UTC) ---

Regarding Editing on the page Gotama
I would like to mention here the following two points:

(1) The name Gautam (the vrddhi patronymic of Gotama and transliterated as Gautama) is a Sanskrit origin word and it is written in Devanāgarī script as गौतम (or गोतम) where the middle alphabet "त" is transliterated in English with soft "ta".

According to all the major transliteration methods such as, IAST, Harvard-Kyoto, ITRANS, and Velthuis given under the section "Transliteration Comparison" in the wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devanagari_transliteration, the Devanāgarī alphabet "त" is transliterated as "ta" only. On the contrary, “tha” is used for Devanāgarī alphabet "थ", according to all the above mentioned methods of transliteration.

The sound for some soft words such as, Devanāgarī “त” is not available in some languages. In these languages, therefore, the hard "ट" (which is transliterated as ṭa/Ta/Ta/.ta, according to the IAST, Harvard-Kyoto, ITRANS, and Velthuis transliteration methods) or "थ" (i.e., tha) is used for "त".

Since the word गौतम (or गोतम) was initially mentioned in Devanāgarī script in various ancient Sanskrit works such as, Vedas, Samihtas, Sutras etc., it should, therefore, be pronounced with soft "ta", i.e., as Gautam (or Gautama or Gotam or Gotama).

(2) There is no verifiable authentic evidence supported by any reference from well respected historian, theologist, or religious person that Siddhartha (or Gautama Buddha) was a descendent of Maharishi Angira or Maharishi Gautam.

The founder (or Pravartaka) of "Gautam gotra", i.e., Maharishi Gautam has nothing to do with "Gautama Buddha" aka "Siddharta".

Siddhartha (of Buddhism) was born in the Shakya clan that belonged to the warrior (Kṣatriya) caste. He was called as Gautama to perpetuate the name of his foster mother, Gautami for the love she bestowed on him

Response to the editor (36.252.136.239):
I would like to make a few points regarding your editing.

(1) The name ’’’Gautam’’’ (also transliterated as Gautama and a vrddhi patronymic of Gotama), written in Devanāgarī script as गौतम (or गोतम), is derived from the Sanskrit roots “gŐ(गः)” and “tama (तम)”.[1] “Tama” means “darkness” and “gŐ” means inter alia “bright light”.[1] Together, they indicate that one, who dispels darkness (ignorance) by his brilliance (knowledge).[1] The word was first possibly appeared during the Rigvedic period and might have come into limelight as a name of a Vedic ṛṣi, Mahaṛṣi Gautam, a descendent of Mahaṛṣi Āngira. [2][3][4]

During the Rigvedic period, the Vedic culture & civilization was confined to the North and North-Western Indian subcontinent. The process extended to the Eastern part of the subcontinent (including Nepal) centuries later.[5] [6]

The name Gautam had a conjuring effect by virtue of the merits of the great Vedic ṛṣi Mahaṛṣi Gautam and his illustrious descendent ṛṣis so much so that, numerous persons sought to assume this name in ancient times.[1] There were several great and renowned ṛṣis and persons, who belonged to the Gautam gotra but all of them assumed the generic name of Gautam only.[1]

(2) According to the Vedic literature in ancient times, five types of naming patterns in vogue in Vedic Indian subcontinent, viz.[7] - An independent given name, - A patronym, i.e., a name derived from the father’s name, - A matronym, i.e., a name derived from the mother’s name, - A clan name (or gotra), a name derived from one’s clan (or gotra), based on the name of a remote ancestor, and - A yajnik name; this pattern was reserved only for Brahmins performing specific type of sacrifice.

In those days, a personal full name normally could have a combination of any two or three of the above naming patterns.[7]

The current naming practices in Indian subcontinent can be traced to the massive advent of European in India during the 18th century. Since the intractability of the ancient Indian naming methods and their meanings confounded the Europeans, they supposedly introduced the naming method, of having first name, middle name, and last name in their urge to influence, modernize and develop the native system accordingly.[8]

So not only in India but also in other countries in the subcontinent such as in Nepal, where majority of people, who used to follow the ancient Vedic naming convention, have thence started adopting the European naming system, of having first name, middle name, and last (or sur) name. Since then, many people hailing from these regions have started assuming the name Gautam as the first name or the last name for one or the other reasons.

(3) Siddhartha (of Buddhism) was born many centuries after the Rigvedic period in a Shakya clan that belonged to the Kṣatriya caste.[5] He was called as Gautama to perpetuate the name of his foster mother, Gautami for the love she bestowed on him.[9]

According to some authors, Siddhartha, however, belonged to the Shakya clan of the Kṣatriya caste, but his gotra was Gautam (attributed to the Vedic ṛṣi Gautam, a descendent of Mahaṛṣi Angira). This might be a reason why Buddha was known as Gautama Buddha.[10] It is to be noted that many Kṣatriya clans affiliate with Brahmins’ gotras because of Ṡiṣya-Praṡiṣya-ṛṣi Parampara (i.e., Sage-disciple succession). It was customary in the Buddha’s clan to address the individuals using gotra (i.e., Gautam) and not by using the kula (clan) name (i.e., Shakya). It showed how high a value was set – precisely in the ranks of Kṣatriya – upon membership in one of the ancient gotras. [11]

(4) The editor should understand that the act of editing/ deleting an original article/ page done from an unregistered account/ IP and without providing any authentic reference support could be considered as fiddling, whether intentional or unintentional, and could be qualified as a candidate for vandalism.

(5) Firstly, I would like to edit the content of the page to the best of its veraciousness and least of expostulation. Secondly, I would like to rearrange the entries, without any biased, in the page in an alphabetical order and using classification such as (1) Ancient/ Historical Persons, (2) Subclans/ Subgroups, and (3) Individuals. I would like to delete the entry on “Gautam Himal” from this page. It looks like that Gautam Himal indicates a geographical location whereas this disambiguation page is mainly for living being or community.

The scores of books and other literay materials on this topic are easily available in various libraries, the market, or on the internet, however, I am providing the following list of references to support the above-mentioned facts.

References: [1] Gotras, http://www.salagram.net/Gotras.html. (The article was taken from http://www.ibiblio.org/sripedia/srirangasri/archives/srsvol/threads.html, Sri Ranga Sri archives with permission of Anbil Ramaswamy and was based on the monograph of Mahaamah Opaadhyaaya Sri Srivatsaankaachaar Swami, Head of Dept. French Indolgical Research Institute, Pondicherry and “MaharishigaL Charitram” by Mimamsa SirOmaNi Mimamsa Vidvan Mimamsa Kovida, Ubhaya Mimamsa Saaragjna, Veda Vedanta ChooDaamaNi Sri N.S. Devanathachariar, referred by Sri Srivatsankachariar Swami). [2] Gonda, Jan. The Ritual Sutras (A History of Indian Literature; Vol. 1, Veda and Upanishads, Fasc. 2). Wiesbaden - Otto Harrassowitz Verlag, 1977, ISBN: 3-447-01823-2. [3] Flood, Gavin D. An Introduction of Hinduism. Cambridge University Press, The Edinburgh Building, Cambridge CB2 2RU, UK, 1996, ISBN 0-521-43304-5 (hardback), ISBN 0-521-43878-0 (paperback). [4] Stenzler, Adolf Friedrich; Editor. Śrīgautamadharmaśāstram: The institutes of Gautam. Trűbner, London, UK, 1876.

[5] Basham, AL. The Wonder That was India, Sidgwick & Jackson, London, 1954 Macmillan Publishers Ltd., London, brought out a paperback edition in 1985.

[6] Joshi, Kireet. The Veda and Indian culture: An introductory essay. Rashtriya Veda Vidya Pratishthan, Rajendra Bhawan (Third Floor), 210, Deen Dayal Upadhyaya Marg, New Delhi -110002, 1991, ISBN: 8120808894. [7] Sharma D. D. Panorama of Indian Anthroponomy: (An Historical, Socio-Cultural & Linguistic Analysis of Indian Personal Names), Mittal Publications, 4594/9, Daryaganj, New Delhi – 110002, 2005, ISBN 81-8324-078-X, p. 82. [8] Narayanan, Srinivas. The Necessity of Naming: Or What's in A Name: or Rainy Days or An Inquiry Into The Origins of Indian Naming Systems: Or An Empty Mind Is A Devil's Workshop: Or Some Other Catchy Interesting Erudite Title Yet (SOCIETY). http://www.icsi.berkeley.edu/~snarayan/names. [9] Siddhartha, http://satya-sai.tripod.com/buddha/buddha-purnima1.htm. [10] K. Manohar Gupta. The Āryan Path of the Buddha, Sundeep Prakashan, 2005.

[11] Edward Joseph Thomas. The Life of Buddha as Legend and History, Kessinger Publishing, 2006. -

Lomash_g LomashaLomasha (talk) 08:05, 2 January 2014 (UTC) ---

Response to the editor (Guffydrawers):
The editing has been done without having the understanding of etymological and historical depth of the name.

I would repeat the matter for your understanding.

The name Gautam (written in Devnagari script as गौतम, a vrddhi patronymic of Gotama and also transliterated as Gautama or Gauthama) is one of the ancient Indian names and is derived from the Sanskrit roots "gŐ(गः)" and "tama (तम)".[1] "Tama" means “darkness” and "gŐ" means inter alia "bright light".[1] Together, they indicate that one, who dispels darkness (i.e., ignorance) by his brilliance (i.e., spiritual knowledge).[1]

Credited to the great sage Gautam, a descendent of Mahaṛṣi Āngira, the name ‘‘Gautam’’ might have come into limelight first during the Rigvedic age. Many illustrious descendent ṛṣis of Mahaṛṣi Gautam also assumed this name in ancient times.[1] There were several great and renowned ṛṣis, who belonged to the Gautam gotra but all of them assumed the generic name of “Gautam” only.[1]>

The Vedic Saṃhitas, Brāhmaṅas and Upaniśads shed light on the naming patterns in ancient times.[2] There were five types of naming patterns in vogue, viz. [2]

(1) An independent given name [2],

(2) A patronym, i.e., a name derived from the father’s name [2],

(3) A matronym, i.e., a name derived from the mother’s name [2],

(4) A clan name (or gotra), a name derived from one’s clan (or gotra), based on the name of a remote ancestor [2], and

(5) A yajnik name; this pattern was reserved only for Brahmins performing specific type of sacrifice. [2]

In those days, a personal full name normally could have a combination of any two or three of the above naming patterns. [2]

For example: (1) Given name + Patronym - Bhrigu Varuni, Bharata Daushyanti.[2] (2) Given name + Matronym - Deerghatama Mamateya, Kakshivat Ausija, Mahdasa Aitareya. [2] (3) Given name + gotra - Balaki Gargya, Chyavana Bhargava. [2]

Siddhartha (of Buddhism) was born many centuries after the Rigvedic period in a Shakya clan that belonged to the warrior (Kṣatriya) caste.[3] He was called as Gautama to perpetuate the name of his foster mother, Gautami for the love she bestowed on him.[4]

According to some authors, Siddhartha, however, belonged to the Shakya clan of the Kṣatriya caste, but his gotra was Gautam (attributed to the Vedic ṛṣi Gautam, a descendent of Mahaṛṣi Angira). This might be a reason why Buddha was known as Gautama Buddha.[5] It is to be noted that many Kṣatriya clans affiliate with Brahmins’ gotras because of Ṡiṣya-Praṡiṣya-ṛṣi Parampara (i.e., Sage-disciple succession). It was customary in the Buddha’s clan to address the individuals using gotra (i.e., Gautam) and not by using the kula (clan) name (i.e., Shakya). It showed how high a value was set – precisely in the ranks of Kṣatriya – upon membership in one of the ancient gotras. [6] The current naming practices in India can be traced to the massive advent of European in India during the 18th century [6]. Since the intractability of the Indian naming methods and their meanings confounded the Europeans, they supposedly introduced the naming method, of having first name, middle name, and surname in their urge to influence, modernize and develop the Indian system accordingly [7].

Many persons in India have thence started adopting the name “Gautam” as their “first name” or the “last name” for one or the other reasons, particularly since the beginning of the 20th century.

Some of the Hindu Brahmins residing in various regions of India, who used to identify themselves with generic Hindu Brahmin last names, such as Sharma or vipra-śāsana (i.e., alla) title, such as Joshi, Mishra, Purohit, Tiwari, Upadhyay etc., have also started assuming the last name Gautam, mainly because of their affiliation either with Gautam gotra and/or with Gautam Dharamasûtra.

So Gautam is nort merely an independent given name. It is also the last name (as per European naming system) assumed by some Brahmins. Rather Brahmins have been assuming this name as the last name for a long time ago.

This name is mainly attributed to Vedic age Mahaṛṣi Gautam. It, however, depends on an individual who he gives credit to by assuming Gautam as a first or last name

I had classified the entries in the page, such as (1) Ancient/ Historical Persons, (2) Subclans/ Subgroups, and (3) Individuals, and rearranged them in an alphabetical order. But the editor has left the article untidy in the name of making it tidy. So I would like to revert it to the earlier state.

References: [1] Gotras, http://www.salagram.net/Gotras.html. (The article was taken from http://www.ibiblio.org/sripedia/srirangasri/archives/srsvol/threads.html, Sri Ranga Sri archives with permission of Anbil Ramaswamy and was based on the monograph of Mahaamah Opaadhyaaya Sri Srivatsaankaachaar Swami, Head of Dept. French Indolgical Research Institute, Pondicherry and “MaharishigaL Charitram” by Mimamsa SirOmaNi Mimamsa Vidvan Mimamsa Kovida, Ubhaya Mimamsa Saaragjna, Veda Vedanta ChooDaamaNi Sri N.S. Devanathachariar, referred by Sri Srivatsankachariar Swami). [2] Sharma D. D. Panorama of Indian Anthroponomy: (An Historical, Socio-Cultural & Linguistic Analysis of Indian Personal Names), Mittal Publications, 4594/9, Daryaganj, New Delhi – 110002, 2005, ISBN 81-8324-078-X, p. 82.

[3] Basham, AL. The Wonder That was India, Sidgwick & Jackson, London, 1954 Macmillan Publishers Ltd., London, brought out a paperback edition in 1985.

[4] Siddhartha, http://satya-sai.tripod.com/buddha/buddha-purnima1.htm. [5] K. Manohar Gupta. The Āryan Path of the Buddha, Sundeep Prakashan, 2005.

[6] Edward Joseph Thomas. The Life of Buddha as Legend and History, Kessinger Publishing, 2006. [7] Narayanan, Srinivas. The Necessity of Naming: Or What's in A Name: or Rainy Days or An Inquiry Into The Origins of Indian Naming Systems: Or An Empty Mind Is A Devil's Workshop: Or Some Other Catchy Interesting Erudite Title Yet (SOCIETY). http://www.icsi.berkeley.edu/~snarayan/names.

Lomash_g LomashaLomasha (talk) 19:10, 7 July 2014 (UTC) ---

Page-move (title change) vandalism by Ikshvaku912 :
The page title Gautam (Gotra) is not at all appropriate to this disambiguation page because this page doesn't describe the gotra (Gautam) related subject. Rather it descibes (1) various ancient philosophers and sages (rishis) who were known as Gautam for one or the other reasons, (2) communities (or subgroups) within Brahmin and Rajput castes who are respectively known by this name, (3) a page related to the list of Neapalese persons having Gautam as their last name, and lastly (4) the list of a few peersons who have their first name as Gautam. In general this page provides the content (list) of various pages which describe the communities or persons who have Gautam as the name (last or the first). However, some persons (i.e., among Gautam Brahmins, Gautam Rajputs, Nepalese or the others in the list) may affiliate with the Gautam gotra - whether the respective communities affiliate with the father-son succession or teacher-disciple succession concept of gotra.

Lomash_g Lomasha (talk) 20:04, 1 May 2023 (UTC)