Talk:Gay Nigger Association of America/Archive 3

No more VFD
Read the logs of the VfD attempts, especially the last one, before attempting a eighth VfD. As offensive as this group is, they have clearly achieved a level of noteworthiness that is apparently worthy of wiki. While being offensive is not itself notable, being offensive also does not counteract an entry's notability.

On the other hand, don't threaten to delete attempts at VfD just because you're tired of their being attempted. If another user showed that sort of stubbornness, and decided to set out on a campaign to down the GNAA entry, it would be down, or at least severely hampered. Don't threaten to up-end the wiki editing process just because the controversy of this topic has gotten VfD a lot of work. JDoorjam

I am not, and have never been involved in this discussion until today. I am not expressing an opinion either way as to the merits of this article.

However, I now declare this VFD battle over. Six rounds is enough. Should this article get posted on VFD again, I will remove it from VFD without giving any notice or explanation.

If I ever need to do this and it upsets you, lodge a complaint with the Arbitration Committee. However I suspect you will get nowhere.

There comes a time to just get on with things. This is one of those times. If you really don't like this article, why not just try to pretend it doesn't exist, and go edit something else.

PS - Don't try to engage me in discussion about this. We are here to edit, not to have endless debates about a consensus outcome that we didn't particularly like. Manning 04:14, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Not if I don't delete the VfD first! Muhahahaha! - Ta bu shi da yu 04:54, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * We had a possible policy being drafted, but that has been placed at VFD itself. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 04:19, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Mostly because of the name. Policy names are not meant to be inflammatory. - Ta bu shi da yu 04:54, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * We have a proposed name, but not only the title needs to be changed, but the wording of the policy. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 04:56, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

"Nigger" as slang
I made this edit a while back:
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gay_Nigger_Association_of_America&diff=prev&oldid=18890999

With this summary:
 * No, it's not slang -- that implies the word is unknown outside the language of a particular social group, which is not true

After reading slang.

It was reverted. I'm not reinstating it, but if it was reverted for some other reason than that reverting is a popular pastime on this article, I'd like to know about it. In particular: I believe nigger is not slang, at least not used in this way, and I'd like for either this to be corrected or me to be proven wrong. JRM · Talk 16:49, 19 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I completely agree. Possible definitions (from Answers.com):
 * A kind of language occurring chiefly in casual and playful speech, made up typically of short-lived coinages and figures of speech that are deliberately used in place of standard terms for added raciness, humor, irreverence, or other effect.
 * Language peculiar to a group; argot or jargon: thieves' slang.
 * "Nigger" fills neither category. smoddy 17:48, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * It is a derogratory word in use for many, many years, so I do not think it really qualifies as slang. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 18:30, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

See ya all later.
I've had enough of being attacked for trying (in good faith) to edit this article. I can't believe that just one editor, Chocolateboy, is able to get away with being so uncivil, and get away with camping on this article. Good luck all - you're going to need it on this article! - Ta bu shi da yu 23:37, 19 July 2005 (UTC)


 * No personal attacks


 * chocolateboy 01:46, 20 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Indeed. This is the very reason why I am no longer editing this article: your personal attacks. - Ta bu shi da yu 02:01, 20 July 2005 (UTC)


 * "Indeed".


 * And I suppose the flamethrowing above, along with "that's crap", "very bad of you to do this", "stop camping on the article", "you are showing your own cluelessness", "you are trolling" &c. are rave reviews?


 * "The horse then died, and, as it died, kicked him severely in the side." In order to pull off the exit insult, as I understand it, it is necessary to actually exit (which, to be fair, neither of us wants). As mentioned above, why not try constructive discussion instead of throwing your toys out of the pram at the first hint of someone disagreeing with you?


 * chocolateboy 03:36, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Ta bu, I will still be here, but feel free to email me if needed. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 03:36, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

fake legal letter?
"The creation of this website ultimately resulted in legal action being taken by lawyers acting on the behalf of JK Rowling and Bloomsbury Publishing." (Legal letter recieved by a GNAA member from lawyers acting on JK Rowlings behalf)

This letter seems a bit dodgy to me... A real copy would be a scan from the letter or a screengrab from the e-mail. (embargod?) --Azertus 22:33, 22 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I removed it. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 22:45, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * It's real, not everybody is lucky enough to have access to a scanner or digital camera. Adamn 10:34, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * If they did receive an actual letter, I would be happy to scan it for them. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 16:58, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

GNAA Trolling Anthems
The MP3 of the AOL troll and the LastMeasure voice is mentioned ("Punjabi Extreme")... perhaps a download link would be useful? I also know from listening to the l0de radio hour that there are many more fine trolling anthems created by GNAA members related to the group's activities. I think that they would also be of interest... it's not necessary to list them all but a link to a download page would be good. Deszmond
 * Sure. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 01:21, 26 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I've found a torrent of a GNAA album called "YHBT"., but if the link is dead, go to www.bogaa.org and search for GNAA.  The only problem is that there are no seeds so I can't download anything.  Anyone care to seed or provide an alternative link?

The Dremel incident
I found an ancient screenshot (yes it was doctored because the webpage was too large for my screen, but I have the two original pictures I used to make it if anyone is interested) of the Dremel website being "hacked" to feature a Goatse pumpkin with a GNAA logo. It was not really hacked, the Dremel webmaster had just linked to a Goatse pumpkin on my homepage, probably because of this Slashdot story (check the first comment), and certainly unaware of what Goatse was. There was no GNAA logo at the beginning, but a member asked me to change the picture (which I did, finding it quite funny). It was not something the GNAA directly caused, but it made everyone think they hacked the Dremel website (http://www.google.com/search?q=gnaa+dremel : "Dremel Goatse hack done by the GNAA", "Dremel Website Gets Hacked On Hallow’s Eve", "Halloween special: GNAA hacks Dremel") so it might be worth mentioning. Sam Hocevar 09:25, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Please, include both of those things. Thank you. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 17:34, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Usernames of members
Several GNAA members are listed here and here, if that proves useful to anyone. Do they run weblog.disgu.st ? That information should be added if they. -- 13:07, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, weblog.disgu.st isn't run by the GNAA but by a member of rival trolling group "teens4christ". They just parked a bot in #gnaa that picked up URLs GNAA members said in the channel and put them into a list. --Jacj 16:13, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, the usernames should at least be useful; they could be listed in the article somewhere, possibly. -- 16:32, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I cannot seem to load the list, but I am going to try a few things out now. I am glad I got my computer back. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 15:38, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Who are Gary Niger and Ron Delsner? According to, they are members of the GNAA. Shouldn't their names be in the article? -- 17:02, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Alright, I will add them. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 17:47, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Gary Niger is a fictional character whose name was quite certainly picked up because of its resemblence to "Gay Nigger". However, he can also probably be considered the most famous GNAA member, since many GNAA trolls or PRs use his name as the contact information. As for Ron Delsner, I have never heard of that name. Sam Hocevar 17:51, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I have to agree on Gary Niger, and I will wait on Ron, though. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 17:59, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

These userpages might be useful: User:Adamn, User:timecop, User:GNAA Popeye. I am certainly missing many of them, but it is sometimes difficult to establish a correspondence between IRC nicknames and Wikipedia usernames. Also, User:SPUI, one of the most active Wikipedia contributors, is (or was) a GNAA member. Sam Hocevar 23:00, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I clicked on the GNAA logo and that has a list of a few people. I do not think we can link to Wikipedian's page due to the self referencing stuff. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 23:03, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The article is perfect, in my view. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 23:05, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I will add the Dremel stuff. Sam Hocevar 23:14, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Alright. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 23:18, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Peer Review
Ok, I put my request there and I am not sure if anything is going to happen there. However, I think we can resolve the issues here before sending this to FAC again (which is my main goal). Zscout370 (Sound Off) 20:17, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Naruto hoax
I captured a screen shot of this hoax. The screen shot has a pop-up that says "You have been trolled," then a press released. I am going to see if others documented this event. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 00:46, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * From what I could tell from the article, timecop founded the Dattebayo website. Timecop is the same person who founded the GNAA. I removed the reference, since the article is currently under a protection and a POV notice. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 01:10, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't understand. There's no POV notice, and if the article were under protection then inserting the reference wouldn't have been possible.  Also I don't think it's really appropriate to remove the reference before doing research, even the simplest google search would have confirmed at least rumours of the hoax.  I am putting the reference back in, but will use "allegedly".  If someone can upload a screenshot and link to it then that can be taken out.
 * I have the screenshot, and I can upload it. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 16:37, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I also noticed that the website was also designed by the GNAA. Not only there is a link to the bottom of the website to the GNAA, but the first paragraph to the Feedback section is a mirror of the feedback sentence at the GNAA website. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 16:43, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * timecop is Dattebayo staff, yes. They've released several more troll episodes since then. I added this to the article. TheFluff 16:07, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

a new focus for this article?
I think that GNAA, like Dada, purposefully defies encyclopedic categorization. It wants to remain shadowy, and to avoid being reduced to an official version of itself. You might say what Dada did to art (successfully or not), GNAA seeks to do to the internet. Unlike Dada, it's not possible to tie GNAA to real places and people. However you might be able to put it into the greater context of something like blog or irc culture, the way you might tie Dada to modernism, social realism, etc.

This doesn't mean that a featured status level article cannot be written on GNAA, just as it's not impossible to write about Dada (though I think the dada article could use some work, and that it would have been much more difficult when dada was current). To really cover GNAA well, I think we have to change the focues of the article. GNAA the orginization is by design impossible to write about "comprehensively." Instead, I think we should write about GNAA the phenomenon, or GNAA the meme. How it appeared, where, who uses it, what claims have been made to officially represent GNAA etc. The article in its present form makes it seem as if some specific organization called GNAA exists, but is shrouded in secrecy. I think the truth is much more complicated, and it well take a lot of hard work to make an article that puts things in perspective. In particular the article in its present form doesn't answer or even ask the question, "what is at stake in understanding this?" The answer to this question is obvious for most articles, but could not be less obvious for this one. And I don't think the answer is "nothing," but that might be argued as well. Dsol 18:36, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Wow...it's good that you are seeing this from another angle, but I do not know if this qualifies even as a meme at all. Though, I noticed that anyone who adopts the name GNAA in their user name is blocked on several places, so there is more we can add. As for the change in focus, we can do that, but let's make the changes in small steps. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 18:43, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Well as a first step, does anyone know the earliest (slashdot?) reference to GNAA? Dsol 19:32, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * All I know it is in 2003. I can check the /. archives. But now, I am at lunch. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 19:33, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I am looking now, I cannot seem to find it. I will ask around and see if I can get some help on /. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 20:00, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?cid=6330188&sid=69363 <= This is the earliest I can find. June 30, 2003. -- grm_wnr Esc  19:47, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I wrote the original GNAA press release, which did not feature the ascii art footer, but did include the "Are you ..." block, however, due to the fact that it was probably moderated to -1, it is no longer in slashdot archives. Slashdot search totally sucks, otherwise I'd try to dig it up. --Timecop 08:58, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * That works Grm, thanks a bunch. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 19:48, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Usage
 The name itself, which was taken from a movie title, has been designed to shock and offend and is generally assumed to have been chosen because of the stigma that has been associated with homosexuality, and the fact that the term "nigger" is generally considered a racial slur against black people THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS??? I've been using it incorrectly for years. No wonder everbody hates me.
 * To be comprehensive we must sometimes state the obvious - though often what might be obvious in one culture may not be obvious in another. Please see WP:NPOV. - Ta bu shi da yu 03:15, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

areems
Is areems still a GNAA member? Please see for details...

Corp box for GNAA
I personally find the box to be informative. How is it against the wikipedia rules to do a corp box for us? I am in a serious effort to make sure this corp box stays up, and this article doesn't become protected. --Depakote 08:11, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm, dunno, I think adding the corp box here is just plain nonsense...the GNAA is not a company, it does not have revenue, it does not market any products, so the whole box is just misleading and looks like a joke. From the edit history, it seems that quite a couple of editors agree with me... Ferkelparade &pi; 08:18, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Feh. I will admit, a troll organization using a corp template is something a bit "new" but in reality the GNAA does offer a few products, I don't know if you have ever heard of the last measure script, but that's a decent example. If anything - there's nothing really to prove that the GNAA doesn't have revenue.  Afterall an article on the GNAA homepage clearly states quarterly earnings in the millions. --Depakote 08:40, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * In what way is the GNAA a corporation? - Ta bu shi da yu 03:13, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Wiki page "endorsed" by GNAA
What is this supposed to mean?  Is a GNAA member the creator of this page? Man those GNAA guys make me want to strangle them.
 * The GNAA did not create this page. They have edited it, which is fine so long as they edit within the guidelines of site policies. - Ta bu shi da yu 03:12, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Plus, I have to admit that the cited article is actually quite funny. The first line actually made me chuckle:
 * In a week which shall be recorded in Wikipedia infamy (and then vandalized and redirected to clitoris)...
 * They may be a bunch of repugnant misanthropic troglodytes, but they're funny repugnant misanthropic troglodytes. That is, of course, when they're over there and not over here. – ClockworkSoul 21:35, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Racism and Trolls
Anybody of any race, religion or ethnicity can be trolled or the target of abuse but that dosen't make it right. Being Jewish, I have had plenty of it and now I learn that my Latvian ancestry is a target too. Wish I hadn't checked that article. ==Dakota Kahn==

"equally controversial"
Does any sane person really believe it's true that the RIAA/MPAA is as "equally controversial" as the GNAA? Ryan Norton T 18:14, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
 * No. Removed. Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 18:21, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

By the way, I for one do not understand why the RIAA/MPAA are mentioned at all. There are countless associations of America and I have so far seen no evidence of a "possible reference" to these particular entities. I think the article is long enough not to bother with such speculation. Sam Hocevar 22:35, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Being creator of GNAA, I'd like to put an end to this once and for all. The name has NOTHING to do with MPAA/RIAA. It is simply what it is, a Gay Nigger Association of America, not based on any stupid music/movie association. --Timecop 23:32, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Comment

 * The gnaa are among the biggest losers on the planet. Their website, a collection of some of the most unfunny shit I've ever read, is an example of how to fail at life.  Verdict: unfunny, unoriginal, piss poor.
 * k


 * What does this have to do with the article? User:Grinick

Image caption
The caption mentions it uses the trademark symbol, despite it not actually being trademarked. This is kind of ambiguous, because the TM symbol really means nothing - only (R) indicates it is actually registered. [maestro] 13:30, 10 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Moreover, they distribute Lastmeasure using the logo as a brand, making it some kind of trademark. Sam Hocevar 14:23, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

controversy in wikipedia
although it seems a little self-referential, i think there should be a mention of the controversial existence of this article in wikipedia, within the article itself. i think it's relevant, given the nature of VfD.. Mlm42 04:10, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

VfD exemption notice
There are absolutely no circumstances now where this article should be listed on AfD. Anyone who lists this article on AfD would have to answer exactly why they added it, and if they couldn't give a good answer they would then be counted as being disruptive on Wikipedia. Thus, when I notice the following edit summary by Gmaxwell:
 * Thats a load of bullshit, anyone who takes such an action against a good faith VFD would be called out for deadminship

I must says that this could not be a more inaccurate summing up of the exemption notice. I have readded the notice and noted what I am doing on WP:AN. I am also adding this note here to let others know what I'm doing. It also appears that others have asked Gmaxwell what on earth he was doing: I have noted this on his talk page also. - Ta bu shi da yu 02:24, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * This is probably on the same lines as "if you vandalize this article, you will be blocked..." that is done for several articles. I highly doubt it would be placed up for deletion again, since of the various AFD's done in the past, but I also know for sure that it will not go through FAC again, unless that is the trend most trolls could do now. Zach (Sound Off) 02:52, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Others? TaBu, someone noticed the change and pinged you on it. It's not like I was editing uphill. As far as the text goes, the notice was factually inaccurate, there is no exemption granted in the AFD policies for this article. Further, blind reverting users without comment is very bad form and is strongly discouraged, expecially since it's quite possible for someone to AFD the article and never see the notice on the talk page.  In any case, the text I put up is accurate, encourages discussion, discourages another AFD, and does not imply that there is some new rule on it yet. As I'd offered elseware: I'd be glad to help draft some new language for AFD to deal with repeated nominations. --Gmaxwell 03:03, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

FAC objections are limited to actionable criteria, which meant that this article always gets rejected for poor writing, insufficent information, and lack of balance. To address in order: So the article could theoretically obtain FA. What is not clear is that GNAA itself would want the article to be moved to a state where it would pass FAC. It may be more fun to have more control over the articles contents & style. JeffBurdges 18:16, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) Quite a number of good internet trolls can write very well.  If one prioritized FAing this article, no one could stop it on this account.
 * 2) GNAA could release a bit more of their history & real philosophy.
 * 3) Add information about the damage done & generall public preception of the organization.

Latvian bashing

 * However, they continually poke fun at such ethnic groups as Latvians by characterizing them as "grotesquely obese, deformed goblin-like mongrels very closely resembling pigs, [ who ] practice Judaism and have a habit [ of ] creeping into houses and stealing the foreskins of babies".

Did they bash Latvians in particular more than once ? GNAA seems to tastelessly bash about everyone and everything, and there are groups that are made fun of a lot more often, like Slashdot readers or Macintosh users. If Latvians were bashed only once it's really not a notable thing. Taw 20:17, 15 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I can't really speak for other GNAA members, but back when I was in #gnaa I'd often take the piss out of Latvians. Mainly because of areems. Nords too. --Rolloffle 20:24, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

How is it possible to bash Nords?

Q:If two drunk Vikings hijack trains one running northward, and the other running southward along the same track Why will they never have an accident? A:Because Norse Is Norse, and Souse is Souce, and never the trains shall meet.
 * If the train running north was to the north of the train going south, then they would never meet. 67.5.194.252 06:52, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Offensive
They have a sub group of Christian Republican Aryan Pedophiles, that Michael Jackson is running. Havent you heard of the Christian Republican Aryan Pedophile Gay Negros Association of America? CRAP-GNAA? Who havent I left out to offend?