Talk:Gay parenting

Untitled
Seems to me like this article is biased forming its own conclusion in that last paragraph--Storm63640 18:01, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't like the sound of the last paragraph either -- but the information contained in the article is solid, and has been corroborated by quite a bit of research. --Rin3guy 06:08, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Does the article even need the last paragraph? I think I might just drop it.

All about adoption?
At the moment the article seems to assume all gay parenting is through adoption. Of course, many LGBT have biological children, and many of the historical legal challenges have arisen over this rather than adoption.

This page could benefit from major expansion.

In fact, the article Adoption by same-sex couples is far more complete on the question of adoption. If this page is not to just be merged with that one, it needs to take a much broader view.

DanB DanD 20:23, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

i am so f*cking pissed off with wikipedia at the moment it is so inconvenient to edit or implement changes. where's the how to page? or at the very least why can't i edit the introduction? *citation needed* well how can i f*cking provide citation if it doesn't let me?

http://www.pflagupstatesc.org/statistics.htm there's the resource for the statistic that "An estimated 6 million to 14 million children have a lesbian or gay parent". I can't find anything supporting the statement relating to the % of gay couples living with children. this is a volunteer community so how about somebody help me out considering im trying to provide some of my time to help out wikipedia.

Cases to mention in Expansion
"According to a 1992 study by University of Virginia researcher Charlotte Patterson, there are an estimated six to fourteen million children with GLBT parents in the U.S." http://www.ncfr.org/pdf/families/Gay_Men.pdf http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/genderInstitute/pdf/gayfatherhood.pdf http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=761027 http://www.father.com/article.php?sid=140&mode=nested&order=0 http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/349
 * FRI response to above study: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/349

gay fathers

 * 2006: Karl Ulf Hedberg (Maryland) - custody of son challenged unless partner moved out. He wins http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/cases/record?record=223
 * 1998: Fred Smith (Henderson County, North Carolina) - lost custody of boys raised from birth when ex-wife (who had never had custody) remarried. Went to NC Supreme Court. http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/news/press.html?record=278
 * Scotland 2002: "A gay man who fathered a child for a lesbian couple has been awarded the same rights as a heterosexual father in a landmark legal ruling."
 * http://www.christiangays.com/marriage/fathers.shtml

the "anti" side
List of Paul Cameron articles, no links to full versions: http://www.familyresearchinst.org/PublishedArticles/tabid/57/Default.aspx Article on marginal nature of Cameron's research: http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_cameron_journals.html

Arguments against gay parenting -What anti-gay parenting groups say
I added a link to the Family Research Institute's "survey" on whether gay parents are more like to sexually molest children. I did this as the section seemed to suggest that conservative's arguments are based only on whether children of gay parents are more likely to be bullied, or on "religious" grounds. Camillus (talk) 22:05, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't mean to discourage participation in the article, but the study you linked didn't mention gay parenting or molestation within families at all. It specifically discusses teacher-pupil molestation, but says not a word about parents.


 * Personally, I'm hoping to find something from Al Mohler for the "anti" side, talking about the importance of "complementarian" gender roles. Can you suggest anything?


 * DanB DanD 22:11, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


 * PS - Please do keep contributing. This article needs a ton of work, and I don't have a ton of time.
 * DanB DanD 22:13, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, you're quite right - on re-reading the article, I take your point. All I wanted to do in adding the link was to state more clearly what those against gay parenting argue - I felt that we had an section titled "Arguments against gay parenting" which didn't spend much time on that the antis said, and as much time refuting some of their arguments. Yes, the antis argue that children of same-sex parents are more likely to be bullied, and are more likely to be gay too (from their point of view, of course, this is because the parents "make them gay"), and they are against gay parenting on "religious" grounds - BUT they also claim that gay parents are more likely to sexually abuse their children - this has to be mentioned, so it can be addressed.


 * I know it's a blog spot, and therefore not appropriate as a reference but I found http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/04/30/235038.php which argues that this point has been spread over many websites, even being brought up in a CNN interview, but the blogger points out some big holes in the argument.


 * So all I was trying to do was to better represent the antis arguments, as it was in the "anti" section. Only by representing their arguments can the counter-argument be provided. Camillus (talk) 22:38, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks, that's a great link! I guess we would call the Wall Street Journal the source, rather than the blog?
 * Right now, a lot of this stuff is also over at Adoption by same-sex couples. The editors there have realized that there's a lot of material in the article that is really about gay parenting in general, not gay adoption, so they had been talking about a split to Parenting by same-sex couples, apparently unaware that this poor little stub existed. So I just sent up a flag over there, and hopefully we can work with those editors in getting a decent article up and running here. DanB DanD 22:48, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Gay fathers
Gay fathers has been redirected here. If there is anything useful in its edit history please merge it to this article. --CharlotteWebb 14:38, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikified
I have wikified the article, formatted the footnotes following current standard and added some references (Apa studies, etc). More references needed though. Junjan 10:39, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

This article is a mess
It's in great need of a rewrite. One that's NPOV and is unbias, with actual unbias sources and no original research. I mean just look at some of the stuff in it now.


 * "Gay parents can teach a child to have more tolerance for diversity and perhaps break down several of societies stereotypes against homosexuals."


 * "The only type of problem a child would possibly have to face is bullying by peers in school."


 * "Studies have not shown that children raised in a homosexual environment become homosexual themselves. citation needed Studies have not shown that children raised in a homosexual environment become homosexual themselves. citation needed Research does not provide evidence that homosexual couples raise children in a relatively unfit or unhealthy environment. citation needed" 

I fixed a few things, but after taking a better look at it all, I can't see how anything short of a full rewrite will suffice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by James xeno (talk • contribs) 11:45, September 18, 2006}}

Statistics in the intro

 * 34% of lesbian mothers have at least one child residing in their home and
 * 22% of gay men have at least one child living with them
 * 6 to 10 million gay parents
 * 6 and 14 million children

Aside from needing a citation (which it has already been tagged for) it needs to be clarified as to what region these numbers are about. In other words, are these worldwide stats, western civilization, or just one country. Worldwide numbers would be best of course, but in any case it should be explicit. Koweja 03:45, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Redirecting
I'm making this page a redirect to Parenting by same-sex couples. I really don't think there's anything here of enough special value to merge. However, I'm pasting the links below in case they may prove useful later.

Gay & Bi Fathers' Forum of NYC American Psychological Association, Lesbian and Gay Parenting American Psychological Association, References on Lesbian and Gay Parenting Professional Opinions on Gay Parenting Stephen Hicks, The Christian Right and Homophobic Discourse: a Response to 'Evidence' That Lesbian and Gay Parenting Damages Children