Talk:Gelatin dessert/Archive 1

Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease
The whole Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease thing... if there are no known cases of this, than why even discuss it here?


 * It is probably worth a mention because people are concerned about getting CJD from consuming beef products. ike9898 16:13, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Wiggle song
Jell-O has recently created a commercial for their sugar-free brand, with a mysterious "wiggle" song that no one can trace.


 * What does this even mean? --Jorge1000xl 19:13, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Google search for "jello wiggle song" turns up no hits on this specific phenomenon (i.e., "mysterious wiggle song" of unknown origin). --Jorge1000xl 21:01, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Watch it wiggle, See it jiggle Cool and fruity Jell-o brand gelatin See it glimmer Watch it shimmer Make some Jell-o brand gelatin and make some fun... --- Jeremy (talk) 14:10, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Bill Cosby
"Bill Cosby is often thought of when eating Jell-O because he made many commercials for the Jell-O company."

This is a rather sweeping statement. Unless you have specific evidence of Bill Cobsy-related thought patterns induced by the consumption of Jell-o, I think its best to re-word this.

Jorge1000xl 21:19, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Kraft brands category
What's with putting the Kraft brands box at the bottom? They're not the only jelly manufacturers! --Slashme 05:43, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Huh?
People talking bout cow feet for jello, I'm fairly certain most gelatin products in the US are made from pork products- (Jello ain't Kosher). However, It's inaccurate to state sugar substitutes cause cancer when there are no conclusive results. Angrynight 02:18, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Tom Lehrer
Tom Lehrer's Talk Page Explains how both statements are true. Please edit the article to clarity the confusion and remove the warnings--E-Bod 00:16, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

What is this all about?
"the preparation of dessert jellies from gelatin flakes is a laborious process, involving boiling the gelatin with egg whites" This is stated as if it is true in general about gelatin desserts. Am I misunderstanding or is this just wrong? ike9898 21:02, 31 May 2006

LeRoy, NY the birthplace of Jell-O
LeRoy, New York bills itself as the "birthplace of Jell-O." Every year during the Oatka Festival, there is always a big Jell-O push. As I used to live in this town and have seen the Jell-O museum and all of the supporting facts, I am troubled that no where in the article does it mention where Jell-O was created.

Option 1
Merge Jelly into Jam and Gelatin dessert, make Jelly a redirect to Jelly (disambiguation) Merge the content from Jelly into the existing two articles Jam and "Gelatin dessert", and make Jelly a redirect to Jelly (disambiguation).


 * I support this option (not surprisingly ;-): Everyone can agree on what a gelatin dessert is, and most people can agree that there are some jams that are called "jelly" by many people.  The Americans and the rest of the world seem to disagree about the primary meaning of the word "jelly", though, so it's reasonable to make "jelly" redirect to a disambig. page. --Slashme 14:04, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Support -  hmwith  talk   20:04, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Support Dl2000 23:39, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment - I can't give my opinion on this until the merge proposal is reworded to make it exactly clear what you mean. Your use of punctuation renders your meaning rather unclear. Badagnani 00:19, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * What do you mean his use of punctation makes it unclear? I don't see what you mean. hmwith  talk  22:30, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I Disagree, primarily because the way they are manufactured are different: jelly, jams and marmelades are fruit preserves made with pectin and sugar, while Jell-O and other gelatin desserts are fruit flavored products made with animal derived proteins (bone marrow). Furthermore, gelatins do not have to be fruit flavored, mousses use unflavored gelatin. Support, but as per my summary listed below.
 * Jerem43 05:42, 11 June 2007 (UTC), revised 03:22, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose Jell-O and Jelly are not relate, as per Jerem43's comments. --Keflavich 21:44, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment to Keflavich and Jerem43, what Americans see as "jelly" is the same thing "jam", but other counties consider "jelly" to be another word for a "gelatin dessert". Simply look at the jellyarticle. I think you misunderstood the proposal. hmwith  talk  22:34, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Support, though I think that rather than having "Jelly" redirect to "Jelly (disambiguation)", the latter should simply be moved to "Jelly". (An administrator will be needed to do this move.) In other words, a page titled "Jelly" should be a disambiguation page.


 * I agree. --Slashme 08:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Note also that in the US, at least according to the USDA, "jam", "jelly", and "preserve" are not completely synonymous. The USDA differentiates these classes based on the content of whole fruit, pectin, and added sweetener. Peter G Werner 21:09, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment, I live in the US, and I have no idea what "preserve" is, but "jam" and "jelly" are 100% synonymous to me and everyone I know (I live in the Midwest, for the record). To the layman, jam and jelly are one in the same. hmwith  talk  14:06, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Need I remind you that Wikipedia is based on published, citable sources, not on what "me and everyone I know" thinks. Peter G Werner


 * Oh, well, this I know. I was just saying that, "To the layman, jam and jelly are one in the same." Most people consider them as two names for the same thing. I meant "me and everyone I know" as, "from my experience, this is how people see it." Sorry about my wording. hmwith  talk  20:35, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment – OK!, I've got some published, citable sources on the differences between jams, jellies, and preserves. The USDA Grading Manual for Fruit Jelly Fruit Preserves and The Penguin Companion to Food treat "jam" and "preserve" as synonymous, but distinguishes "jelly" from jams and preserves. All of these are cooked and pectin-gelled fruit products, but jellies are based entirely on fruit juice or other liquids, while jams and preserves are gelled fruit that includes the seeds and pulp. The 1975 edition of The Joy of Cooking also makes this distinction, but adds the following distinction between jams and preserves – jams are cooked and gelled fruit purees, while preserves are cooked and gelled unpureed fruit, which includes a significant portion of whole fruit. "Fruit spread" is another distinction, which I believe means a jam/preserve with no added sugar. Peter G Werner 07:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree that the distinction between "jam", "jelly", "preserve" and "fruit spread" should be addressed. I would support putting sections called "jam", "fruit spread", "fruit preserve" and "jelly" in a unified "jam" article, partly because it would be a pity to split them into separate articles, and partly because I can't think of a better word for "sweet stuff made from fruit that some people eat with bread". --Slashme 08:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with this approach. Do you think that Marmalade should remain a separate article, or be merged into Jam? Peter G Werner 10:05, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Good point. Yes, I think it should be merged. --Slashme 05:56, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, wanted to say I like the way it's been resolved.Headzred 20:51, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Directed here by a bot list for links to disambiguation pages, I have removed the links from this page that were formerly meant to redirect to the original article for Jelly. I left alone any that mean to link to the disambiguation.  Hope that works.

Possible outcome?
After reading the comments, We seem to have a basic agreement in regards to this proposal, so I am going to recap:

This is a summary of the products we are dealing with:

Group 1
Pectin based products:


 * Preserves, a pectin based, sweetened preserve made with fruit pulp and/or whole fruit or vegetables (USDA definition);
 * Jam, a nickname for Preserves;
 * Marmalades, a citrus based preserve;
 * Fruit spreads, a pectin based, unsweetened fruit preserve;

Group 2
Gelatin based products:


 * Gelatin Desserts, a gelatin based dessert often made with fruit flavorings;
 * Jell-O, a brand of of gelatin dessert

Group 3
Jelly and all its forms:


 * Jelly (US meaning), a sweetened, pectin based preserve made with juice only (USDA definition);
 * Jelly (UK Meaning), a slang nickname for gelatin based desserts;
 * Jelly (candy), a type of gelatin base candy also known as Gummies, but also items like jelly beans, Swedish fish, gum drops and jelly fruits (a fruit flavored, wedge type of candy often seen at Passover in the US). Examples are seen on |this page;
 * Jelly (medical), a salve e.g. KY Jelly, petroleum jelly;
 * Jelly (industrial) any gelatinous compound e.g. Naval Jelly;
 * Jelly (aquatic fauna), a jellyfish.

Merge proposal summary
From what I have been reading and the general direction of the conversation, how about we do the following:
 * 1) Because Jelly has so many different meanings, create the Jelly (disambiguation) page with the items listed above;
 * 2) Create a Preserves article with the following subsections: Jelly, Jam, Fruit spread and Marmalades. Please make sure we explain what set them apart from the latter example, i.e. they are made with plant based congealing agents;
 * 3) Modify the Gelatin desserts article so it includes all the various major gelatin style desserts, e.g. gello (yeah I typed it this way deliberately to differentiate it from the brand name), mousses etc. Please make sure we explain what set them apart from the former example, i.e. they are made with animal based congealing agents;
 * 4) Convert the old articles into redirects.

Does anyone else agree or disagree with me about the summary on this one?

Jerem43 02:49, 2 July 2007 (UTC), revised 18:40, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Agree I think this is what was originally proposed and supported by me. This is exactly what needs to happen. hmwith  talk  20:38, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Consensus: merge
It looks to be a 5-1 majority for a merger, structured upon the summary listed. I am going to begin editing it this way - Jerem43 03:28, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

The merger is complete the articles are now as follows


 * Jelly (disambiguation), text of original article merged into the article Fruit preserves
 * Jam (disambiguation), text of original article merged into the article Fruit preserves
 * Fruit preserves (main article)
 * Gelatin dessert (main article), some text of original article merged into the article Fruit preserves, edited to reflect merger decision. It may need some more editing.

The following articles were left intact but referenced with a Main article: tag in the new main article, Fruit preserves:


 * Fruit curd
 * Fruit butter
 * Marmalade

Jerem43 07:35, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Gelatin dessert, Fruit preserves, Jam and Jelly edits by Milk-maid
has made a series of moves with these articles undoing the results of the above discussion. It is her opinion that they should reverted to the original articles using only Commonwealth English references and naming. When the discussion and its results were pointed out to she dismissed it and moved them anyway.

Please keep an eye on these articles to prevent her from doing so again.

-Jeremy (Jerem43 05:34, 31 October 2007 (UTC))

By the pound?
The caption to the third picture on this page currently says:

These popular individual gelatin snacks, 20-25 grams each, are sold by the pound and are available in supermarkets throughout China.

Do we mean that these are actually sold by the lb? Does Japan even use pounds? Or do we mean they are sold by weight in general? Do we mean they are sold in packs that weigh a set weight (say, a pound)? Do we mean they are sold loose by weight? Sorry if this seems picky, but this caption really puzzled me. 86.164.57.20 (talk) 22:04, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


 * These are sold by the jin in China, not Japan, loose weight. Customers can pick and choose. Then, a girl weighs them out and, seals the bag, and puts a price sticker on it. It's just like buying vegetables in a western supermarket. I will fix the caption. Thanks for catching it. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:56, 30 June 2010 (UTC)