Talk:Gene Simmons/Archive 1

Legal concerns
-DEFAMATION OF CHARACTER-

Warning link #11 Gene Simmons Sex Tape is defamation of character, and must be REMOVED immediately. There is no strong evidence to this fact as you can not truly make out in the video if it is Gene Simmons or not. This video is subject to suit by anyone who hosts it. Once again for your safety REMOVE this video now.
 * Dude, YOU can remove what you believe to be defamation of character. In fact, in matters concerning real people, Wikipedia highly encourages this. Lots42 (talk) 15:04, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I think there are a few mistakes
Category:Hungarian-American Jews Okay, firstly the line : with his longtime partner Shannon Tweed (the two oppose getting married) ... is basicly wrong, at least everywhere I have seen / read / heard it's just Gene who doesn't want to get married, not Shannon.

And then the television guest appearances should not include That 70's Show, as far as I know it was an actor called Spiros Papadatos (source : http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1821323/) 19:50, 1 December 2006 (UTC)Bendrago

In regards to Gene's refusual to get married...He doesn't believe in marrying a woman, because she forfeits her maiden name. He doesn't believe in marrying Shannon, becuase he doesn't wish to own her. That's what he sees marruage as...the man owning the woman. I'm not quite sure what Shannon thinks of this. --Missy C and The Moozik Choosers 07:41, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Cute. You actually bought another one of Mr. Simmons' excuses, eh? Let's be frank here - Gene Simmons doesn't want to get married so that he will never get divorced or separated. Delving into the realm of ORIGINAL RESEARCH  (ooooo - aren't I just SOOOO evil?), I'd think it stems from the fact that his father left Gene and his mother early on to fend for themselves - maybe due to this fundamental abandonment he has trouble 'linking' himself to another person so pivotally and seriously for fear of being abandoned again?

As for his 'excuses' about the 'slavery of marriage,' I think it's quite clear that Shannon doesn't buy any of it, and would like to marry, but accepts his foible if it at least means they can be together. Empath 19:13, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

The article says he immigrated to NYC at age 4. However, the biography page on GeneSimmons.com says he came to the US at age 8 1/2 (source: http://www.genesimmons.com/bio2.html). Does anyone have a tie-breaker? Neltana (talk) 21:54, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I fixed the age...multiple sources, including Simmons own website, give the age 8 or the date 1958. Neltana (talk) 06:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Other Aspects of This Bio Which Are Not Clear
If Simmons became a U.S. citizen in the mid-1950s, and if he didn't attend college, and if he was just hanging out playing in a rock band, how did he avoid being drafted during the Vietnam War era? 7/2/2008: In checking Simmons' birthdate (Aug.25, 1949) against the selective service lottery records, his 'draft number' would have been 285. The highest number called that year was 195. 76.176.138.233 (talk) 22:57, 2 July 2008 (UTC) Under Videos In 2005, he appeared alongside other celebrities, as well as regular people, in the music video for "The Bride" by Trick Pony. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vossie1 (talk • contribs) 00:46, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

A Few Questions
Is "egomaniacal" premitted under the Wikipedia law of "neutrality, community, profanity?" Or maybe in Simmons case it's already an undisputed fact?

Also, is 'egomaniacal' correct? I think only 'egomaniac' is a word.

Isn't it slightly odd that a man who's black and white demon make up, an adornment that has become so recognizable, should have such an unrelated reference picture. Surely fans of Freddie Mercury would rather see him (Mercury) performing his trademark Wembley Stadium stance than pressing middle aged hands onto a young girls chest. Certainly the picture should be changed to something more typical of Simmons rather than a suggestion of gross perversion.

Besides, there's no "Ancient Jewish law" regarding one's last name/mother's maiden name, for the simple reason that last (family) names were introduced a little over 200 years ago, when Judaism was about 3500 years old. I also don't think that "Rabbi" Simmons who claims to have had sex with over 4500 women, gives a dead rats' hindquarters about "ancient Jewish laws".


 * who cares? get a job. 4500 women?  sure speaks volumes re women's intuition, and the sociobiology of idiocy.

we need another picture,the last thing we need is something that suggests pedophiliaLord revan 19:24, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Jumpin' Gene Simmons
Actually I was searching wikipedia for information about Jumpin' Gene Simmons who I've learned from elsewhere on the Internet is apparently some sort of singer songwriter of country music. Not much info about the guy anywhere so far. He wrote a song called "Haunted House" which got my attention, it being the season and all. Kinda interesting that two musicians with the same name could be so remarkably different. ZachsMind 01:21, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Jumpin' Gene Simmons - Part II
From an Elvis Presley movie (Fun in Acapulco) review

"If you look very closely you'll see that one of the uncredited cliff divers in "Fun in Acapulco" is a young Gene Simmons. Yes, the same Gene Simmons who would not only try his hand at acting but also at being a rock 'n' roller, achieving fame as a member of the band Kiss. He was born in Israel and at one time the multi-linguist was a school teacher. He has gone on to careers in writing, publishing and merchandising as well"

on IMDB: Full Cast and Crew for Fun in Acapulco (1963)

Gene Simmons	 .... Diver (uncredited)

--216.198.119.31 11:46, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Family Guy
Gene Simmons was actually in three episodes of Family Guy. Third being the Don't Make Me Over when Peter, Cleveland, Joe, and Quagmire where all in different outfits in Peter's garage.

Triva
I added some trivia. Crazy Eddy 16:55, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Family Guy Tongue Length
"In his (to date) final appearance on Family Guy, Simmons performs oral sex (off-camera) on Lois while standing just inside the Griffin's door, an exaggeration of his trademark tongue length (several inches long, in the episode)."

In the episode, his tongue moves out of the garage into some other part of the Griffin household. Inches? I changed it to metres.


 * Wouldn't feet have worked better? The original section didn't use the metric system, why switch to it now?  Just a suggestion.  Levid37 18:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, this needs to be changed from "Griffin's" to "Griffins'" - thanks.

How big is it really?
His tongue. Does anyone know how big it is really? Purely for...um..academic reasons. Oh come on, all the fans and people that have heard about his exploits were thinking the same and will want to know. I'd imagine it'd be possible to work it out from the photos, so I'd be surprised if someone hasn't done it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.206.93.39 (talk • contribs)
 * You could use a search engine and ascertain in less than five seconds that the answer is eight inches. wikipediatrix 22:39, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * 8 inches? That can't be right. Guinness book of world records lists a length of 3.7 inches from tip to middle of top lip as the longest. Mr. Simmons tongue cannot be 8 full inches unless you're measuring well into the throat. 8cm is a more reasonable answer, making it about 3.2 inches extended. Certainly well above average, but not anywhere near approaching the porn-star member length suggested above.--Legomancer 03:52, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

A RELATED STORY - Gene on Oprah (citation needed)

I guess this is the best place to add this story. One of my favorite Gene Simmons moments of all time... he was on Oprah:

Oprah: So Gene, really, how long is your tongue?

Gene: Long enough to make you my best friend.

[cut to commercial as Oprah looks flustered.]

It was priceless. Unfortunately, I cannot find a proper citation for it beyond my own memory. But if anyone can confirm this, it should be on the TV appearances section of the main page or something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Docstan (talk • contribs) 18:47, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Death
Okay, I just saw somewhere that Gene Simmons died three days ago. What happened??? - Ndrly 03:20, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I've heard snippets about this as well, but none of the major news sites are reporting anything. This article is a few months old, but I'm guessing that people have heard about the death of this musician, and got confused with Gene Simmons of KISS.  Of course, there may be some truth to the rumour, but I think this is the more likely explanation.--Phil500 (Talk / Contribs) 07:50, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Controversy
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned in that section Simmons' comments about Muslims a few years ago in Australia. That definitely needs to be added. Shabeki 05:39, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it was since disputed whether he said those comments. Andjam 00:05, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Should a respectable online encyclopedia report on an internet video that is unauthorized and the subject of legal proceedings? I was under the impression that Wikipedia entries are limited to published facts that stick to the core information about the subject. Since when does Wikipedia want to be nothing but a hub for the latest gossip or does it? 70.107.77.219 (talk) 18:40, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I believe it should be later mentioned that although Simmons stated that he was talking about extremists, he has previously said that there is no difference between extremists and moderates in the muslim world. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhIkCH4sScM (14:50) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.193.242.175 (talk) 03:04, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Photos????
Is it possible to grab pictures, and where is the best place to get these? Dont eat me, I'm only new...--Missy C and The Moozik Choosers 07:44, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You can't just grab photos though, they have to be fair use or something. See WP:Images.  I find the whole picture thing very confusing.  WLU 15:26, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes I agree...why can't it be written in plain English, because we're not all freakin super geniuses...anywayz, you get that I suppose. Ta for the help muchly. --Missy C and The Moozik Choosers 05:57, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Gene's Exploits
Wasnt't he meant to have bedded like 1600 women in his lifetime? I want this to be confirmed before someone adds it. Thanks! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.151.152.38 (talk) 22:36, 5 April 2007 (UTC).


 * I don't think anyone can confirm that. --Kvaks 21:47, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * He's stated on talk shows that his long-term partner is fine with it.--MartinUK 22:59, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Tongue
Is Gene Simmons tongue naturally that long or was that little spot under the tongue "snipped" to allow it to protrude further than normal. I was always lead to believe the latter.
 * Here's something neat, but off topic. Run your finger along the inside of your upper lip, you should feel this ropey tendony thing just between your incisors, same for the lower lip. These are called the labial frenulums. There is also one under the center of the tongue called the lingual frenulum. People who have an abnormally tight lingual frenulum are said to be "tongue tied" and it can result in difficulty speaking or displacement of the teeth. Whenever there is a conflict between muscle and bone, bone *always* loses. Anyway, there are a handful of reasons why snipping some or all of the oral frenulums can be of benefit. One of the side-effects of such a procedure is the ability to extend the tongue further beyond the teeth, but this procedure gives modest results at best. There are a handful of body-mod places who are willing to do this, but it's generally handled by a dentist or orthodontist because of bleeding/infection risks. It seems more likely Mr. Simmons was simply born with an above average tongue length. There is such a wide range for "normal" when it comes to human anatomy, that it would seem more likely to be something he was born with rather than actively sought through surgery. In some pictures he has his tongue pointed up, and you can still see the anchor point of the lingual frenulum in front of his lower teeth with tongue fully extended.--Legomancer 04:01, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * This page could definitely benefit from some discussion/refutal of prevalent tongue urban legends such as frenulum surgery (I remember as a kid hearing that the surgery incision never healed and that was why he spat blood) or cow tongue implantation.Hark80 (talk) 22:17, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Gene's Politics
Under the heading "Controversy", the bullet concerning the 2004 Election says Gene supported Bush despite his being "overly liberal in his beliefs". What does "overly liberal" mean? Is that synonymous with "too liberal" or "excessively liberal"? The term "overly" seems to carry some bias, so I changed it to "generally", but I'm still curious whether there is evidence that Gene is politically liberal at all. I'm not a Gene Simmons expert, but from what I've seen he seems to be an extreme Capitalist who is pro-Bush and pro-war. I suggest removing the reference to his being a liberal unless it can be substantiated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tfthompso (talk • contribs)


 * I removed it entirely because there's no source for it anyway. wikipediatrix 21:35, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Gene's Firstborn
Gene Simmons does NOT have a son named Christopher Ashley Simmons. The only son he has is Nick. I don't know who put up that nonsense or where they heard it from, but it is untrue. If Gene did have another son, he would have mentioned him in his autobiography and there would most likely be a picture of him but there isn't. Someone needs to remove this false information as soon as possible. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

Redirect from his real name?
Isn't it the standard (from WP:BLP or WP:MOS perhaps?) to use the real name as the main article and redirect from other names, no matter how well known?

I just noticed something else. Aren't we supposed to categorize people's ethnicity, religion so on based on whether or not they're known for it? From what I know, practically no one knows that he's from Israel, that he's a blogger, nor that he's Jewish (has anyone checked this--rather than assume it based on his heritage), etc..? -Nathan J. Yoder 08:55, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

An Israeli hard rock bass guitarist?
Okay, I understand that he was born in Haifa, however, it seems odd to describe him as an Israeli. He immigrated to the USA in 1958...it would seem that Israeli-American would be more accurate (after all, the article on Michael J. Fox describes him as a Canadian/American). Of course, given that his mother was Hungarian (she was a concentration camp survivor who immigrated to Israel after WWII, I think), I think a case could be made for Hungarian-American, as well.

I propose we avoid this confusion by changing this simply to "a hard rock bass guitarist and vocalist." We already say where he was born. The rest of the article makes clear his mother's ethnicity and the fact of his immigration. Why do we need to "tag" him with a nationality? I know such tagging is the convention, but I think there are reasons to avoid it here.

Thoughts? Neltana (talk) 22:39, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I broadly agree, especially with the sentiment it should be changed.

I would suggest either;

Israeli born hard rock.... Israeli born, american hard rock.... or American hard rock (if he has american citizenship)

Or just remove it entirely.

Mcnurse (talk) 22:54, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I went with Israeli-born American hard rock....While I wasn't able to find a reference that specifically stated he had American citizenship, I have found him listed elsewhere as an American musician. Neltana (talk) 05:35, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I think Gene Simmons can be considered as an American musician. But there is an important fact: he can speak Hungarian.

It's pretty offensive that anyone would claim that he is American. Very offensive, in fact. He was born in Israel to an Israeli father and a Hungarian mother. Simply moving to another country when you're 8 years old does NOT change your nationality.

I'm afraid there is no confusion to be had. He is simply not an American. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Suicidal Lemming (talk • contribs) 23:19, 2 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't see any way anyone could be offended by this discussion. Of which nation is he a citizen today?  If he carries an American passport, he is an American (one could argue Israeli-American).  If he carries an Israeli passport he is Israeli.  CsikosLo (talk) 01:25, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Of course it is offensive. I fail to understand how you cannot see that. Passports do not determine nationality; nationality is determined by where you were born, where you grew up, and to a minor degree the nationality of their parents. If he has an American passport, that means he is an Israeli with an American passport. There is no debate on this, he is Israeli and it shall not be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Suicidal Lemming (talk • contribs) 23:38, 9 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with CsikosLo. My opinion is that if Gene is a US citizen, this should be reflected in the article; if he is an Israeli citizen, this should be refelcted in the article.  If neither can be confirmed why don't we simply omit that piece of infotmation until it can be referenced? Jonesy (talk) 02:40, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

The simple fact that he was born and raised in Israel with Israeli parents confirms the fact that he is Israeli. You cannot simply change and become an American, or any other nationality. If he has an American passport, then he is an Israeli with an American passport. There is no debate on the issue and I shall make sure the statement is correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Suicidal Lemming (talk • contribs) 19:45, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not so sure about that. While nationality can mean many things, in English the meaning is pretty much restricted to citizenship, unless the citizenship of a person is questionable (refuge es, for example). If Simmons was born in Israel and then became an American, he is a US national. (Try writing country X in the nationality box of an arrival document and then presenting a passport from country Y and you'll see what I mean!) That said, my guess is that even if Simmons holds a US passport, he probably also holds an Israeli one as well - I can't imagine an Israeli born American not doing that. So, perhaps the best thing to do is to write Israeli/American singer. Better still, forget all about nationality as Neltana suggests. (See Nationality.) --Regents Park (bail out your boat) 20:03, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't particularly care if it is in or out, but if it is in, American should be used. He is a US citizen and if (as referred to by Regents Park, we use the definition found in Wikipedia, American is the correct term. Jonesy (talk) 08:46, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

You cannot "become" another nationality. The country where you were born and raised is what defines your nationality, pure and simple. He is an Israeli living in America, little else, so if nationality is used it should clearly be Israeli. Israeli-American is technically incorrect; American is undeniably incorrect. He simply isn't American. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Suicidal Lemming (talk • contribs) 15:34, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Who is to say this refers to nationality (although even if it does I do not agree with your thoughts on the subject). What if it does refer to citizenship?  In that case American would be correct as the sources indicate he is a US citizen.  Jonesy (talk) 22:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Saying American would be incorrect however; he is an Israeli with American citizenship. If you disagree, you are simply wrong - if you want it to be about citizenship, it must be reworded.

Saying he is Israeli with American citizenship is correct - to say he is American is wrong, pure and simple. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Suicidal Lemming (talk • contribs) 20:58, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

That is your opinion and your interpretation. Other people think differently and prefer the term American in this context. Jonesy (talk) 03:06, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what 'people' 'prefer', the fact is that Gene is was born in Israel and hence, is Israeli. He holds US citizenship (I am of course presuming) so he is Israeli-American. It's ignorant, and incorrect, to simply call him "American" when he wasn't born there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.70.133.179 (talk) 00:41, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I say go with Israeli, now naturalized American, or Israeli-born. Both are accurate, and you can all stop being angry and stubborn enough to have something as simple as a page about a glam rock star under lockdown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.52.215.103 (talk) 06:57, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Richard Simmons
Is this guy related to Richard Simmons?Ask D.N.A.- Peter Napkin (talk) 18:38, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

What are you, a moron? I'm not one for personal attacks on Wikipedia, but that was about the stupidest question I've ever seen on a talk page. I'm sorry if I offend anyone. 209.254.200.110 (talk) 16:01, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Not quite impossible, look at Martin Sheen and Charlie Sheen. 75.5.100.86 (talk) 05:06, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

What the hell, Wikipedia?!
Why does "Money Bag" redirect here? And a Ctrl+F shows no mention of this term anywhere. Is someone being completely retarded in creation of redirects? Or is it just another fudged-up Wiki-policy? What's going on here? --Buddy13 (talk) 19:53, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

=> he owns the "money bag with dollar sign" logo

Musical Equipment
Just about every other bass player of note has a section describing his/her equipment. I came here trying to find out what type of bass guitar and amps he used in the 70's and can't find anything on it. Is there a reason this information was omitted? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.247.208.234 (talk) 03:37, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

If you think it should be included, find a reference source to the facts, and add it. 139.68.134.1 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 18:50, 17 December 2008 (UTC).

"That's what gentiles are for"
While looking down at the engine of a broken down car, Gene Simmons made this comment to his son. (The suggestion is that being a car mechanic is not suited to Jews)

This is clearly a racist comment and yet his television show remains on the air. Probably because gentiles are if anything, more tolerant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.68.130.59 (talk) 22:03, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I fail to see how this correlates to improving the Gene Simmons article. Lots42 (talk) 15:04, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Picture
A different picture of Gene would be much better. We don't need a Star Trek poster and some guy in a hat in the picture with Gene. Lots42 (talk) 15:04, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Legal concerns
-DEFAMATION OF CHARACTER- Warning link #11 Gene Simmons Sex Tape is defamation of character, and must be REMOVED immediately. There is no strong evidence to this fact as you can not truly make out in the video if it is Gene Simmons or not. This video is subject to suit by anyone who hosts it. Once again for your safety REMOVE this video now.
 * i moved this from the top of the page
 * Dude, YOU can remove what you believe to be defamation of character. In fact, in matters concerning real people, Wikipedia highly encourages this. Lots42 (talk) 15:04, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

sources for the sex tape:
 * http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331749,00.html "Simmons' statement in response to the tape appears on his Web site genesimmons.com: "You may have heard or seen garbage that has sprung up from my past. Rest assured the proper legal team is looking at all ramifications and options," he says."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=7&entry_id=24384 by the way, this is probably not defamation of character or libel to summarize the allegations and gene simmons' response in the article as long as the allegations have been picked up by legitimate news sources and can be cited Theserialcomma (talk) 12:18, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * http://www.theage.com.au/news/web/kiss-and-tell-simmons-sex-tape-goes-viral/2008/02/22/1203467364134.html this one has simmons' lawyer admitting it was simmons in the video but that he was filmed surreptitiously and that the tape was "garbage that has sprung up from my past" while his lawyers were "looking at all ramifications and options". i believe this allegation is sufficiently sourced and is ready to be added with a NPOV Theserialcomma (talk) 12:28, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

pronunciation of "Chaim Witz"
The ad-hoc pronunciation "Haium" does not belong. Cast it in proper broad IPA as specified in Wikipedia guidelines, and get rid of the existing "Haium" which is really more of an indication of the dialect and literacy level of the writer than information about the name. One question would be whether the name is considered Yiddish or Hebrew; the same name is pronounced very similarly in those languages, but not identical. Another question is whether it should be anglicized; for instance, the "Ch" would not be pronounced as an English "H" in Hebrew or Yiddish, but would probably be pronounced that way in English. Most likely, the IPA would be. But it could be something else, depending on the Yiddish/Hebrew/English question and the anglicized/not anglicized question. Regardless, the current version is bogus, but I can't improve it because it's locked. 139.68.134.1 (talk) 19:01, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I checked the Help:IPA for English page and your pronunciation looks correct. I'll change it now. If it's wrong someone else can post the correct pronunciation here. Edgehead  5150  05:57, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Unfair of the term Tough
I have nominated this section to be rephrased because i think the comprehensive school he taught at was not tough i used to go to that school, channel 4 bribed the children to misbehave. In rock school it made the town look terrible when it is not. They did not check there facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pakefield (talk • contribs) 22:08, 31 December 2008 (UTC)