Talk:Genealogy of Khadijah's daughters

Untitled
This page seems to contain alot of original research, some examples "Regardless of marriage they where born in, all Muslim view all the children with the highest of respect."...ok, is this just opinion? Are they all valued the same way or is there more talk about one particular son or daughter in the Koran? Are the sons and daughters presented equalty in the Koran? Do some sects of fundamentalist muslims view the daughters as equal to the sons of Muhammads? The Shia, Sunni, and non-Orientalist view section seem to be written out entirely of what the writer knows about the subject without sources to back them (only on small reference).--Jersey Devil 09:15, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Sure ill remove that part. Anythin more? --Striver 11:07, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Meaning to say no Muslims treat any of them as being apostate of kafir, either sunni or shia. they are threated as brothers and sisters, regardless of attributed parentage. I have not heard of anyone disrespecting any of them (but then I am a student of Islam, not a practitioner), & this would be very hard to document in what is overwhelmingly an oral tradition. If no Muslim comes by here in the near future and says 'hogwash', I see no reason not to remove the tag in a week or so.Bridesmill 19:03, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
 * No Muslim is disrespecting of Khadijas children, they are all higly respected. --Striver 22:10, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Plural form
Can we use the arabic here? Suggested text: "The Quran refers to Muhammad's daughters as "arabic word" (33:59), which translates as "at least three" ". Bridesmill 22:54, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
 * That above my level, i dont acctual speak Arabic, im just very familiar with it. --Striver 01:56, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Khadija was actually the daughter of a succesful trader and because of his old age she was managing his business. She never married anyone else beside the Prophet (s.a.w). But I just don't understand the part about his three daughters. What if they never converted to Islam??? I mean, they were'nt muslims all their life, they had to convert. Or maybe they wanted to but their husbands didn't allow them? Anytings possible. Syedasidra (talk) 18:44, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

The last line proper of the article reads "Some individuals have said that Khadija had no previous husbands[8]," and the rest of the paragraph seems to be in the ref tag. I didn't fix it since I'm not sure how it should be... Athaclena (talk) 11:46, 2 December 2008 (UTC) "Means other Daughters till the end of time." REALLY!!! You can't give links and you give this GOLD style!!! 119.148.35.65 (talk) 08:45, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Incorrect Shia view
"Shia scholars view them as adopted children" - This is rubbish. The majority of Shia scholars have viewed the 3 others daughters as being biological daughters. It is a very small minority that claimed the 3 other daughters were adopted. This theory has only become more popular amongst the laypeople recently. A long list of scholars are quoted somewhere in the pdf article here opposing the adoption theory: http://revivingalislaam.blogspot.com/2011/01/how-many-daughters-did-prophet-have.html (81.101.120.57 (talk) 17:40, 10 January 2011 (UTC))
 * Many Shia now agree that they were not adopted, but brought over through Khadijas previous marriages!--88.111.117.148 (talk) 20:34, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Undue weight
Is this article about the genealogy of Khadija's daughters, or is it about the POV of a some ( not all ) of the Shiites ?! Three quarters of the article is explaining the minority Shiite POV. Either this is reduced, or this article's name be changed to "Shiite view on Khadija's daughters." Unflavoured (talk) 08:49, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Seconded User:Unflavoured.119.148.35.65 (talk) 08:47, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Importing stuff from Umm Khultum bint Muhammad and Ruqayyah bint Muhammad
I've moved a whole section relating to this article from Umm Khultum bint Muhammad and Ruqayyah bint Muhammad. If anyone is interested in these semi-sourced claims, help yourself.

The daughters attributed to Muhammad are;
 * 1) Zainab bint Muhammad, married to her maternal cousin Abu al-Aas ibn al-Rabee before Hijra
 * 2) Ruqayyah bint Muhammad, was first married to Utbah ibn Abu Lahab and then to Uthman ibn Affan
 * 3) Umm Kulthum bint Muhammad, was first married to  Utaybah bin Abu Lahab and then to Uthman ibn Affan after the death of her sister Ruqayyah
 * 4) Fatimah, was married to Ali ibn Abi Talib

Sunnis do not contest the parentage of Khadijah's daughters and believe that all four were borne to Muhammad. They affirm what the Qur'an states, "O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers...".

Some Shia clergymen claim that Muhammad and Khadijah only had one daughter, Fatimah.

This view however is considered 'odd' as it goes against the majority Shia opinion that the Prophet had 4 daughters and the consensus of the other schools of thought. Shia scholars such as Tabarsi and Majlisi  claim that the Prophet had 4 daughters. Shia scholar Abu Muhammad Ordoni confirms this.

The minority opinion that the Prophet only had 1 daughter goes against the Quran verse "O Prophet! Say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” (Quran, 33:59)

- HyperGaruda (talk) 13:32, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Sunni Muslims believe that all four of Khadija's daughters are from her marriage to Muhammad, as noted by Sunni scholar Yusuf ibn abd al-Barr.

This view is shared by majority of Orthodox Shiites clergy a minority consider Fatimah as the only biological daughter of Muhammad and they argue their rationale regarding this matter by using some historical traces. In the incident of Mubahala in which Muhammad was ordered to invite Christian disputants and accompany his family members for the imprecation, as mentioned by Quran3:61, there was no female accompanied by Muhammad apart from Fatimah.

This argument however fails, as the Event of Mubahala happened after all the daughters of Mohammad died before it could take place on the 24th of Zilhaj 9AH. Ruqayyah died in 2AH (as mentioned above). Zaynab (ra) died in 8AH and Umm Kulthoom died in Shaabaan of 9AH one month before the event of Mubahilah took place.

This theory also goes against the Quran which states in 33:59 "O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments."

According to the Shia scholar Majlisi, the Muhammad undoubtedly had 4 daughters  and married Uthman (Islam's third caliph)

According to the Shia scholar Shaykh Tabarsi " Some traditionists have mistakenly assumed that the Prophet had four sons from Khadijah: al‑Qasim, `Abdullah, at‑Tayyib and at‑Tahir. The truth is that he had from her two sons and four daughters: Zaynab, Ruqayyah, Umm Kulthum and Fatimah."

Shiites believe that Fatimah is the only female who is recognized among the five members of Ahlul Bayt (along with Muhammad, Ali, Hasan, Husain according to the purification verse in Quran33:33). According to the Encyclopaedia of Islam, the expression Ahlul Bayt can only mean the family of Muhammad and in spite of the claims of many members of the community and Muhammad's relatives for a place in the Ahlul Bayt, and the later efforts to include Muhammad's wives, the number of privileged is limited to those five members.

According to the Shiite website 'al-islam.org' (the website which hosts 'Encyclopedia of Islam'), "The term “ahl” signifies the members of a household of a man, including his fellow tribesmen, kin, relatives, wife (or wives), children, and all those who share a family background, religion, housing, city, and country with him. “Ahl” and “al” are both the same term with the exception that “al” is exclusively used for human beings and should come before the family name, but such a condition is not existent in the case of “ahl”. “Bayt” refers to habitation and dwelling, including tents and buildings both. The “Ahlul Bayt” of any person refers to his family members and all those who live in his house." Unlike the Shiite scholars, Sunni scholars take the more apparent meaning of the Quran verse 33:32-33 which states "O wives of the Prophet, you are not like anyone among women. If you fear Allah, then do not be soft in speech [to men], lest he in whose heart is disease should covet, but speak with appropriate speech. And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification." since 'Ahl Bayt' includes household and wives.

- HyperGaruda (talk) 12:32, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Query
I don't understand "This is the argument against the that the sisters of Fatimah were not the biological daughters of the prophet Muhammad as according to the universally accepted Islamic creed that the Qur'an will remain unaltered till it is lifted totally." Any suggestions? could it mean "This is the argument against the theory that the sisters of Fatimah were not the biological daughters of the prophet Muhammad as according to the universally accepted Islamic creed that the Qur'an will remain unaltered till it is lifted totally."  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  17:41, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

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= Unreliable sources = I'll hopefully replace unreliable sources with better ones in the next few days. Albertatiran (talk) 08:09, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Comparing this with Muhammad's children, it actually looks like a good idea to merge the two pages. Albertatiran (talk) 08:37, 12 November 2021 (UTC)