Talk:General Certificate of Education

Year AS levels introduced
AS levels introduced 1999, not 1989. I left school in 1998 and we had AS-levels. Epbr123 19:40, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * AS levels existed before then - they were around when I was at school in the 1970s. However, they were something different, essentially an extension to the A level for the brighter pupil, and typically taken by those aspiring to Oxbridge.Cliff 17:57, 20 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually no, they were less than an A level. The old style A/S was equivalent in depth to an A level but only covered half the scope.  I have an A/S from 1997: that was a modular A level which meant taking three modules from the A level instead of six. Crispmuncher (talk) 04:06, 26 November 2011 (UTC).


 * Just dug out my 'A'-Level certificate from 1972. The first subject listed states:

MATHEMATICS   B SPECIAL PAPER  2
 * (I also took Further Maths and Physics. I could have taken Special Further Maths but, for some reason, didn't.) The syllabus for the Special Paper (way back then) was identical to that for the 'A'-Level, same "depth" and "scope". The Special Paper was more difficult, and could not be taken unless you were also taking the corresponding 'A'-Level. I agree wholeheartedly that 'S'-levels were "for the brighter pupil" (God, I'm wonderful), but I never had aspirations to Oxbridge. HairyWombat 03:00, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The Special paper is a different certificate again to the A/S or Advanced Supplementary. The S paper was intended to indicate the very ablest pupils in a subject who would also sit the A level in the same subject (the UCAS points system didn't give any credit for the special paper but looked solely at the A level for the subject).  The Advanced Supplementary was an additional subject to those taken at A level and UCAS award half points for it: when I was doing my UCAS application A levels were 10 points for an A, 8 for a B etc.  A/S points were 5,4,3... Crispmuncher (talk) 13:32, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * This page has taught me a lot. 41.191.104.242 (talk) 12:15, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

You're both right, and also wrong ;)  Advanced Supplementary Level (AS Level) were introduced to complement the A-level in 1989, these were replaced, in 2000, by the more accessible Advanced Subsidiary Level (A1 Level, also known as an AS-Level). 83.104.51.74 (talk) 12:38, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Pass Grades
This whole grade discussion needs to be decided and incorporated into the article. I can't, as I'm from US and we never had anything like it (unless you want to include the SATs that some college-bound seniors could take), but I've been intrigued by the system for the last 13 years with no real information. I don't think O (outstanding), E (exceeds expectation), A (acceptable), P (poor), D (dreadful) and T (Troll) would suffice in a discussion of the real grades for the UK students (and others). 76.2.229.233 (talk) 19:01, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I am pretty sure that in the 50's/60's that you either passed or failed the 'O' level exam. I think that gradings were introduced in the 70's, C Grade being the old pass mark. Anybody able to confirm this? One B, Two C's, Two D's, and Two "Pass" Equivalents (and what is the point of that?) 11:23, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

From Fivish: I passed 7 'O' levels in 1969. I got 4 A's, 2 C's and an E. Curiously, there was no B or D, and F was a fail. The two 'O' levels for which I got C's I also took the CSE and got level 2. So theres the comparison: C = 2. But I dont think any employer ever cared about CSE's, they were worthless. Now the GCSE combines the GCE and CSE usually by providing a higher and lower paper, so they neednt have bothered combining them as in reality they didnt! The lower paper has an upper limit of a grade C even if you get 100%. This is not widely known.


 * I think it may have depended on what board. (Note the lack of discussion of boards is an omission in this article). I did University of London and I am fairly sure they changed around 1975 from A C E | F u to A B C | D E u.


 * Little u was unclassified and meant it did not go on your certificate.


 * Mentioning boards, that still exists today with the difference between EdExel and the others.


 * All OR but... Spenny 21:25, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

When I took my O levels in the early 1970s, grade 1 to 6 were passes, with grades 7 to 9 as failures. There was also a U grade. CSE grade 1 was supposed to be equivalent to a GCE pass but the claim was certainly tenuous. I was forced by my school to do CSE chemistry (in which I got a grade 1, which was just as well because I went on to do A level in chemistry) and it was truly pathetic. They were certainly worthless - much like a GCSE at grade D today.

My form was asked to do the next year's paper as some kind of moderation/planning exercise. CSE papers had an quarter hour reading-only period at the beginning of the exam, followed by the 90 minute paper when writing could be done. In this 15 minute period (since I was sat at the back and didn't want to waste too much time) I completed the whole paper. I handed it in immediately the invigilator said "you can start now" and walked out (and I was pretty sure I had got over 95%). I'll never forget the look on his face as he sat down to look at what I'd done. That's how easy they were for an O level standard pupil.

This article makes no mention of GCE AO levels, which are still in use today. My son took additional maths AO last year, in the fifth form, after passing GCSE maths in his fourth form. His school mandates an A at AO level if a pupil wishes to go on and take double maths A level. AOs were around in the 1970s - I took French Literature AO after passing French O level a year early (we had to read novels and short stories in French and then write essays on them). It was said to be an A level paper marked at O level standard and was effectively intermediate between O levels and A levels.Cliff 18:00, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Pass grades and AS
O level grades in the mid 60s were A - E, then O, all passes. Then F fail. That was in 1967 In 1968, the grades changed to A, C, and E, passes. and F fail. I'm sure of that change because I took english and maths in 67 and a load of others in 68 and the grading system was different between the two sittings. After that they went to A, B, C, passes. I'm not sure which year. I suspect that this was a preparation for the current situation where most people who sit the exam get given a certificate. Currently there are A - E, passes, but everyone distinguishes between and A - C pass and a D or E pass. F is still a fail but very few do that badly.

The O level GCE Certificates did not show the grade attained. That was on a small slip of paper that could easily be lost! So in reality, there were no grades, only passes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.30.6.220 (talk) 20:01, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

The Individual Result Notice was a slip of paper as you say easily lost! The certificate did not state the grade. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.111.152.46 (talk) 22:06, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

AS did not exist back in the 60s / 70s. There were S levels which were A level extensions but you were only allowed to take one of them. Yes they were used to get into the better universities and were often taken in the Upper 6th, i.e. third year in the 6th form.

Would it be worth mentioning the British Council in the article? In Sri Lankha(Colombo) and Cyprus, the majority of entries are given a British Council centre number (at least for Edexcel) rather than being sent from individual schools. I'm new to this, so I don't want to jump in and make a large change just yet, any thoughts? Pan narrans 23:58, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Bangladesh
is still part of the Indian subcontinent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.67.41.63 (talk) 23:24, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

Bad Terminology
"which was used in Britain" - shouldn't it be changed to "used to be at Ordinary and Advanced level in the UK", or deleted altogether, because GCEs still exist in the UK as AS and A2. Amlder20 12:56, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Was GCE O level used in Scotland? Northern Ireland?  I profess ignorance of this but I thought it was mainly an England and Wales thing. --TS 15:05, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Er ... England + Wales = Britain so, indeed, it was an England and Wales thing. (Britain + Scotland = Great Britain, and Great Britain + Northern Ireland = UK.) HairyWombat 02:48, 26 November 2011 (UTC)


 * No. England and Wales are just that.  Britain refers to the island, i.e. the British mainland.  The "Great" prefix is optionally used to signify that it is the largest island in the British Isles: this is true of many archipelagos and has no political significance. Crispmuncher (talk) 04:00, 26 November 2011 (UTC).

What does it take?
The Wikipedia Foundation says, "The Wikipedia community encourages users to be bold when updating the encyclopedia. Wikis like ours develop faster when everybody … add facts". This article is usless to people who do not live in Great Britain, because is gives no idea of how many OLs a student needs to pass to earn the certificate, nor how many students who sit the test pass and earn a certificate.

So I have added this sentence to the first paragraph, "To earn the General Certificate of Education students need to pass one of the Ordinary Level tests, and only those who score higher than the sixtieth percentile for a given test pass it, so that only 30% of test takers in a given year earn the Certificate." The italic words need to be edited by knowledgeable editors for accuracy.

Bear in mind I am a highly educated American with a wide knowledge of other cultures, and yet I had never heard of OLs until a couple of months ago. I read the entire set of seven Harry Potter books to my young children and did not get the joke about widzard students taking O.W.L.s. I suspect that is true for almost all American readers.

Nick Beeson (talk) 10:11, 24 September 2010 (UTC)


 * As I understand it, WP:BOLD is about stepping in where you have some knowledge to add, not where you feel knowledge needs to be added. Perhaps I misunderstand what you were saying, but from the sounds of it you were just adding a sentence with the right structure where it seemed like such a sentence should go and hoping that other editors would correct it.  This is dangerous; please remember that most people reading Wikipedia don't notice the difference between a sourced statement and an unsourced one!  Keep in mind that WP:BOLD immediately continues with ...but please be careful.  If you feel that a certain part of an article is unclear, feel free to add  or  to alert other editors to the need for further editing.


 * I've removed the sentence from the end of the first paragraph; not only was the math itself wrong, but a cursory survey of the Ofqual website suggests that the GCSE's and A-levels use a non-curved grading system, assigning letter grades to different scores and passing or failing based on grade, not percentile.


 * Cirne (talk) 05:20, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Lots wrong with this article
There is a lot wrong with this article. The "Baker Act" was 1944, not 1943, and said nothing at all about grammar, secondary modern, or technical schools. GCE's were introduced in 1951, CSE's not until 1965, so not "along with" GCE's. The school-leaving age did not become 16 until 1972. The SQA is the Scottish Examinations Authority, not Association, and didn't exist until 1997, long after the demise of O-levels. This is just from a cursory reading, I suspect there are many more such errors. DuncanHill (talk) 12:33, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I've taken out some of the more egregious errors, and tagged several sections as needing references. DuncanHill (talk) 12:38, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Shouldn't the lead be in past tense?
92.10.147.127 (talk) 22:41, 19 June 2023 (UTC)