Talk:Generational change

Merge Proposal
i think this should be merged into generation gap. it is basically the same thing. -- Mimzy1990  (talk) 02:43 13 May 2009‎ (UTC)


 * It's two different things, actually. While the first describes a strategic operation done by an organization, the second one refers to a social situation that frequently is a also social problem. -- 217.203.151.10 (talk) 13:58 23 January 2010‎ (UTC)


 * 217.203.151.10 is right. The two concepts are somewhat related, but they are distinct.  The gap between generations may eventually lead to generational change in a society, as the old generation dies off and the new one takes over, but it also may not, if the young generation change as they mature and adopt their parents' values.  Generational change may also come without any perceived generation gap, if the old folk are not bothered by the changes; for instance the transition from those who grew up with pre-metric weights and measures, and are uncomfortable with metric, to those who grew up with metric and think of it as natural.
 * And of course generational change affects far more than just societies; as the article points out it affects organisations, ecologies, animals, and all sorts of other things that don't experience generation gaps.
 * -- GertBySea (talk) 04:35, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm, sounds like the current article is kind of a coatrack - the title says Generational change, but it's really about the generation gap. The page sure could use some editing to make this distinction clear. D O N D E groovily   Talk to me  12:18, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Not at all. The article is all about the changes that happen as time goes on, and the consequences of those changes.  Nothing at all to do with the generation gap, which is the alienation that may exist between older and younger people in the same culture.  They really are very different things.
 * Let me have another try at explaining the difference: Generation gap is "those young people and the noise they call music; they have no respect", and "those old people who are proud of what they did in the war, and look down on us". Generational change is "when did all the hatters go out of business?"  and "what's a slide rule?".  Do you get it now?  -- GertBySea (talk) 02:11, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Except that before my article the page cited the 60s hippy movement as an example which is clearly the best known example of a generation gap. The article became a coatrack because of bad examples that distort what this is really about. Anyways, those examples you just mentioned should probably be added to article, to make clear what it's really about. D O N D E groovily   Talk to me  02:52, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Huh? There was no mention of the hippie movement.  You still don't get it; the examples you deleted have nothing to do with a generation gap.  The change in the sort of music that dominates in different decades is generational change, not a generation gap.
 * I'll have another go at explaining the difference, though this should be obvious by now. Generational change is something that happens to a population over time. "A generation goes, and a generation comes."  A generation gap is an alienation between differently-aged members of the same population.  "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority [...]" (misattributed to Socrates)  They really have almost nothing to do with each other.   -- GertBySea (talk) 00:46, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Music of the 60s is the classic generation gap - older people completely reject rock and younger people completely rejected the music before it. Today, on the other hand, young people routinely listen to rock music that is 30 or 40 years old. Thus, today's music is simple generational change but 60s music was a true generation gap. That's why 60s music is a terrible example, it suggests to people that gap and change are the same. D O N D E groovily   Talk to me  01:48, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Sigh. I don't understand how you can still not get this.  The different musical tastes of young people in the '60s was one of the things that caused a generation gap.  That is discussed at Generation gap and is not even mentioned in this article.   This article mentions the generational change in the dominant musical form.  They are very different things, as I have explained over and over again.  Again: a generation gap by definition exists at one moment; generational change by definition happens over time.  How can you confuse them? -- GertBySea (talk) 07:18, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't believed you phrased it that way before, and now it makes more sense. The article needs to be written that way. D O N D E groovily   Talk to me  03:25, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It is. -- GertBySea (talk) 07:09, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I look at the current state of the article and completely and totally stand by my earlier choice to redirect to generation gap. It isn't really phrased that way. At least, not in a way that suggests that this is any different than generation gap in any way. It completely fails to make that distinction. In this case, the distinction is so close that you need to say why this is NOT a generation gap. I suspect that probably 95% of our readers look at the article that's there and say, "oh, they mean generation gap." So, frankly, the article is still in a state where a redirect to generation gap is the best thing to do. Also, I don't think most of our users consider "at one moment" a necessary part of defining a generation gap. Don't give me that "how can you not get this" or "how is this confusing" crap. The concept isn't confusing, but the difference absolutely is. It is our job as an encyclopedia to explain this to someone who has no idea, it is not our job to write a confusing stub and complain that other people don't get it. D O N D E groovily   Talk to me  12:26, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

The only distinction I can see here that would justify a separate article is (as an example) the distinction between the young of the 60s completely rejecting jazz while the young today still accept rock. The 60s was a generation gap, while today, there isn't much of musical generation gap (thought there is in other areas, such as gay marriage). The "right now" versus "over time" is not enough of a distinction to justify a second article on what is otherwise an identical topic. D O N D E groovily  Talk to me  12:26, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Unmerge?
I'd like to suggest that, despite the discussion above, generational change deserves an article of its own.

Watch this space. Andrewa (talk) 15:18, 10 February 2021 (UTC)