Talk:Genoa/Archive 1

Genoa v. Genova (disambiguation)
If you search "Genoa" meaning the type of sail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genoa_(sail) you are redirected to this page for Genova (city) which then links to the disambiguation page for "Genova". How do I get to the Genoa sail page by searching?

Write "Genoa sail" in the search box.82.27.181.141 (talk) 13:29, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

External links, the day's cleanup
The Genova, European Capital of Culture 2004 link is now kaput, since it was a temporary public-relations gimmick. I've removed it.

The Visit the town starting from the historical center" was in fact commercial link spam for an apartment rental, also removed.

The photos of Genova is a larger site than it looks, each of those photos, at least on spot-check, opening to a page of more photos.

And the official site belongs on the page, and first on the list: proof that few people care about Wikipedia, and a lot of people are out to link their websites. . . . Bill 22:11, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Use of accent in Gènova
Please join the discussion at User talk:Macrakis/Italian accents if you're interested. --Macrakis 05:43, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Why no mention of the G8 meeting?
Jabbi 01:47, 8 February 2006 (UTC) I think enough violence and the killing of a person was enough said for that event

While the article mentions a number of protesters killed, only one person (20 year old Carlo Giuliani) has been reported to be killed by a Carabinieri officer in Genoa during the G8 meeting. Several protesters were beaten and seriously injured by Police and Carabinieri forces.

Suggestions for expansion
This is a nice article so far, but can I suggest you consider adding the following sections: Currently the article is heavily weighted towards Genoa's glorious past, but surely there are important aspects of the modern city to include, too? Thanks, Walkerma 02:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Geography (you can include climate here)
 * Culture (night life, festivals)
 * Economy
 * Transportation
 * Education (especially if there are major universities, institutes etc.)

Question
"U.C. Sampdoria is a football team with very few supporters. Most of them come from the suburb and dangerous districts"

Is this supposed to be a sick joke? I think It should be deleted ASAP. Thanks. Jan 16, 2007


 * Actually I had already deleted it yestarday. And I came back to the old version of the text as well. Daviboz 23:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

why not greek?
"knee" is "genus" in Latin and "gony" in Greek.

I add that "knee" is in Italian "ginocchio", but in the local dialect is "zenuggiu". As "Genoa" is in Italian "Genova" but "Zena" in the local dialect.

I am not an expert at all in etymology, but I would like to see good reasons not to say that the derivation is from the greek "gony".

Moreover, as it is written now it is nonsense. So, I rollback, waiting for good explanations. --Fioravante Patrone en 19:41, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

estuary?
Etymology, again. Why estuary? It does not fit with the origins of the city, as far as I can see. Which river?? This "celtic" origin is sometimes considered, but with a different meaning: "jowl". I delete the "source" since it says nothing relevant w.r.t. the issue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fioravante Patrone en (talk • contribs) 23:05, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Oldest working lighthouse?
I have put citation needed in this sentence: ''The port of Genoa also contains an ancient lighthouse, called the "Torre della Lanterna" (i.e., "the tower of the lantern"). It is the oldest working lighthouse in the world'', because I'm not sure this is true. As a matter of fact, there's an old Roman lighthouse still working in Spain, which is the Torre de Hércules, and I think it's older than this Genoan lighthouse. The English wikipedia recognizes so: It is the oldest Roman lighthouse still used as a modern lighthouse in the world. says the article about this Spanish lighthouse. --80.36.68.39 (talk) 21:37, 11 May 2008 (UTC)Joane

What about the Fortifications?
What about Genoa's fortifications? From what I know they are one of the longest walls in the world, (after China'sGreat Wall, of course!) I read somewhere that the three rings of walls add up to more then 70 km. And a mentions to the forts too. OP —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.16.53.66 (talk) 09:07, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

The name Genova is not Celtic, and it is not derived from a root meaning "mouth"
It is from a root, common to both Latin and Greek, meaning "knee", and it is quite clear from the geography of the town as to how it got this name. The other supposed "proto-Indo-European" root "genu" is referenced as "chin", which is not synonymous with "mouth" at all, as Wikipedia claims. Rather, this root appears to evoke the concept of an "angle", much like the word "knee". Clearly, the name of Genova is not Celtic, but derived from an Italic language closely allied to Latin. It is not clear, though, that the name is ancient Ligurian, which may have been a pre-Indo-European language related to Iberic. At any rate, the classical author Strabo was quite clear that the ancient Ligurians were not Celts, except for those tribes who had been Celticized, and were named by the Greeks "Kelto-Ligues".


 * Do you have a source for that? El Greco(talk) 21:29, 20 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The article claims Genoa "could be derived from a Celtic root genu-, genawa (pl. genowe), meaning "mouth", i.e., estuary, or from the Latin word of Celtic origin "ianua", meaning "door"."
 * But how could this be? All one needs to do is to do is look at a map. Genoa is not on any estuary and does not lie at the mouth of any river. Genoa does contain a manmade innner harbor, but from a natural geographical standpoint, clearly the proposed Celtic root is out.
 * The Latin name for the city, Genua, is so close to the Latin word for knee (Genu/Genus), which closely mirrors Genoa's geographical setting, as to make a Latin or related Italic origin for the city's name virtually a dead certainty. Yet this is barely glossed over in the article.
 * —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.68.95.65 (talk) 20:58, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to add, that deriving the name from "ianua" is a completely amateurish etymology. The ancient name of the city is "Genua", so it cannot be related to "ianua": note the "g" and "i" at the beginning of either word, these are completely different consonants in antiquity (one is like the "g" in "girl", the other is like the "y" in "yankee"); the source of this "etymology" is probably a confusion of "g" and "j" in much more recent times (both sounds have been later palatalized). 188.33.127.17 (talk) 18:53, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Hello all. The origin of the name 'Genova' is not clear. Each hipotesis you mentioned may be true. However, please argue with references, not just with your own reasoning. If you look at the map nowadays the shapes are different from some thousand years ago when the name could be generated. By the way I cannot clearly see any knee where the old town was. Also linguistic remarks are nothing without references. Anyway the passage from 'i' to 'g' can occur, as the god 'Ianus' is called 'Giano' in Italian. Well, the entry in Italian wikipedia has all hipotesys better explained, I suggest to translate from there. Mad Toad (talk) 13:18, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * As for Ianus > Giano - Mad Toad, you're missing the point. The passage from 'i' to 'g' is medieval, while the name of the Genua (and the word ianua from what it is said to be derived) is ancient. So this etymology is simply anachronic, it confuses two different sounds which have merged maybe 1000 years later than it is relevant for the etymology. In antiquity, 'g' was a mute consonant and 'i' was a semivowel. It is the later (as I said, medieval) palatalization of the both sounds, that made the ground for the confusion. You have been informed, it is up to you to either remove this nonsense, or make Wikipedia rumours. 109.243.0.103 (talk) 09:10, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Probably you are right, I will put a "Citation needed" tag on that statement, since I have not the knowledge to judge it wrong. If nobody will provide a reference, it will be deleted. I will make the same note also in Italian wikipedia. Mad Toad (talk) 13:50, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I found that the origin from the world Ianua is only a legend. I have a reference, which is a italian book: Teofilo Ossian De Negri. Storia di Genova. Firenze, Giunti, 2003, p. 13. ISBN 88-09-02932-1. I'll delete the wrong statement and I could write the legend, translated from Italian. Here it follows, please feel free to put it in a better English:

The legend says that Genoa was founded by the Roman god Janus, as like the god it has two faces, one looking to the sea and one looking to the mountains. From this comes the Latin name of the city, Janua, and much iconography with the two-faced god in association with the city. Actually the name Janua can be found only from XI century, and is clearly subsequent from the former Genua, which was still used parallely.

Mad Toad (talk) 08:54, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Coat of arms?
Shouldn't the real coat of arms be used instead of the fake one currently featured on the English page? It can be found here: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Genova-Stemma.png. It is copyrighted, but the City of Genova has already authorized its use by Wikipedia, and the coat of arms is currently featured on the Italian page. --Purple74 (talk) 17:13, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You are right... Is authorization valid also for english wikipedia, and all other wiki projects? If so, why it is still not in Wikimedia Commons? Mad Toad (talk) 13:57, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I have no idea. Someone with an OTRS account should check ticket https://ticket.wikimedia.org/otrs/index.pl?Action=AgentTicketSearch&Subaction=Search&TicketNumber=2006062810010272 and help with this. Purple74 (talk) 16:28, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Flag (open discussion)
Article says "... The flag of Genoa is simply a St George's Cross, a red cross on a lime white field, identical to the Flag of England ...". Someone should read this and try to improve this argument. Thank you, by Davide —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.15.125.206 (talk) 19:39, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Sister Cities
Removed Boston as a sister city as it isn't listed as a sister city on the city of Boston webpage. 13:34, 6 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caelestis Filius (talk • contribs)

summer/holiday
I had previously removed the sentence "Generally – summer's/holiday season lasts to 6 months, from May to October" because it is not only unsourced but I would say untrue or at least not clear. Generally speaking summer as a climatic and/or astronomic season can be defined to be 1 June to 31 August, or 22 June to 23 September (more seldom, 7 May to 7 August). Never I have read that October is in summer -  I mean, even specifically for Genoa, where I live - neither scientifically nor colloquially (and not even locally!). Holiday season is usually mid june to beginning of september (when schools are closed, beaches are serviced etc). If by "holiday" we mean "tourism season", the town can and is visited by tourist all year round. So unless we find a definition of summer/holiday for which it is can be confirmed that it is may to october, and a source for this definition, I do think that the sentence is wrong.. I don't remove it right now because I don'to want to start an edit war on that, but it should be done... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maxbeer (talk • contribs) 21:54, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Genoa Flag discrepancy
The flag of Genoa in the gallery section of "St George's Cross" wiki page is not exact with the flag on this page. Can someone please determine if the real Genoa flag is either: vertical red line is short, or if it is the full distance of the flag itself. thx. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gizziiusa (talk • contribs) 17:27, 16 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Palazzo Ducale Genova 02.jpg real flag of Genoa is that with the vertical red line as long as the flag itself (the same used in the article). As a reference see also the picture on the right. Please note that the flag in the gallery section of "St George's Cross" page is correct, but as the image is missing the flag border, the red lines seem to be shorter than the flag width and height. --Bbruno (talk) 18:08, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Population
According the source Cityrailways genoas'urban area has a 800,000 and metropolitan area has 1,510,000+. In Italy it is an authorevol sorces like istat or censis — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.53.180.69 (talk) 22:49, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

GAN nomination
This article will fail any GA review dues to the large number of statements which need citations. Some citation needed tags date from September 2007! Jezhotwells (talk) 19:35, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Not to be confused with Geneva
I think someone should add the "Not to be confused with Geneva" template/sentence. Considering that the Italian name of Genoa is very similar to Geneva (Switzerland). — Preceding unsigned comment added by DrQuantum (talk • contribs) 23:49, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Temperature conversion
The second paragraph of the "Climate" section says "average range of about 6 °C (43 °F) between high and low temperatures." This is nonsense: an absolute temperature of 6 °C is certainly 43 °F but a relative temperature (i.e. a temperature difference) of 6 °C is 10.8 °F - this is because the two scales have different zeroes.

The conversion currently uses a macro. I couldn't figure out how to deploy a macro for relative conversions, as opposed to absolute conversions, so I have not edited the article. Please could someone with more knowledge of such things fix it?

80.176.190.231 (talk) 09:38, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Genoa
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Genoa's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Istat": From Sardinia: Rapporto Istat - La popolazione straniera residente in Italia al 31º dicembre 2010 From Italy:  From Milan:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 17:04, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Christopher Colombus
The article states that Christopher Colombus was born in Genoa. However this is far from established and it is a very controversial claim. Just to summarize, the fact he was a pirate against Genoa, signed his name in Greek, was obsessed with mastic, had obviously lived in Chios without any records of him travelling there (suggesting he did not travel from Genoa) and the fact his son claimed they were of Byzantine descent dictates that the article should he may have been born in Genoa. The article should also mention it is disputed and hyperlink to the relevant page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:582:70B3:B600:3C97:CB1:A551:D8C1 (talk) 14:17, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Timeline of Genoa
What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content! Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 07:50, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Notable people
Recently, user 79.59.51.72 has added a long list of people, in fact most of those included in the category "People from Genoa". I don't know exactly en:wiki rules, but according to what stated in the related section ("Please leave this is a small and varied collection of the very prominent. The category is the place for a comprehensive list"), I agree that here have to be listed only few very important people and not everyone, even notable, include in the category.--Bbruno (talk) 15:37, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Old Harbour
The information I added was to expand the “Old Harbour” subsection. I incorporated its usage in historical context and mentioned briefly modern counterpart in regards to trade routes. This addition was for a class assignment. Kgalvez2 (talk) 16:29, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Links to Italian Wiki pages
I spent quite a while today converting links of the form it:Italian thing to thing in accordance with the guidance at Help:Interlanguage links. The ill template will display the red link for the English-language article, with the Italian link in parentheses following, and replaced with just a blue link once the English article is created. In the spirit of WP:BRD, I am bringing the discussion here rather than reverting again. Do the regular editors of this page have any input? I got here as a reader. --Scott Davis Talk 10:02, 18 December 2016 (UTC)


 * [Copied from User talk:79.59.51.72 to keep conversation in one place]
 * HELLO
 * regarding to paintings and monuments the links with italian wikipedia allow at least to see the images. Also with regard to the persons related to the history of Genoa i believe that an italian link is better than nothing  ...and  in any case the italian language you can always learn. For anyone who wants to deepen his knowledge of Genoa an italian link is better then nothig, i think.    thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.59.51.72 (talk • contribs)


 * You will note that replacing direct links to itwiki with links using ill did not remove the ability for a reader to click through to Italian if they wished to do so, but it also gave them an easy invitation (via a red link) to create an English-language article on the topic. This enables people like you to create English-language articles for people like me who see the article. Assuming the images are on Wikimedia Commons, they can easily be included in the English articles too. What advantage do you see in deliberately avoiding the automatic links to English articles if/when they are created, which provide the link to the Italian version as well? --Scott Davis Talk 00:42, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

ok thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Evola75 (talk • contribs) 13:46, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080916185647/http://circa.europa.eu:80/irc/dsis/regportraits/info/data/en/itc3_eco.htm to http://circa.europa.eu/irc/dsis/regportraits/info/data/en/itc3_eco.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081202145356/http://www.porto.genova.it/dati/traffico_porto/traffico_porto.jsp to http://www.porto.genova.it/dati/traffico_porto/traffico_porto.jsp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110722063657/http://orientamento.studenti.unige.it/sviluppa/FactsFigures.html to http://orientamento.studenti.unige.it/sviluppa/FactsFigures.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090608033337/http://www.porto.genova.it:80/uk/porto/terminal/terminal_passeggeri.asp to http://www.porto.genova.it/uk/porto/terminal/terminal_passeggeri.asp

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Remember, remember, remember
I noticed that the history section, particularly the Modern History section, asks you to do a lot of remembering. While fine for a history book, asking me to remember the Battle of Genoa or Admiral Rossetti before either event or figure has been mentioned feels... Strange. In fact, doing a quick search sees the word "remember" show up 22 times. Only a handful of the uses of the word feel appropriate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.39.22 (talk) 17:27, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 April 2019 and 14 June 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Npearso2.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:47, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:37, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 * La Bolla di Renzo Piano; Porto Antico Genoa (5700585868).jpg

Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2023
References 97 "Article about Genoese Cuisine". Portofinoworld.com. 24 March 2009. Retrieved 12 April 2011.

151.83.161.0 (talk) 13:00, 25 August 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅: with modification of the citation to the correct title. Xan747 ✈️ 🧑‍✈️ 22:28, 25 August 2023 (UTC)