Talk:George Balanchine/Archive 1

Untitled
The paragraph about getting CJD from animal gland injections is silly to have here: it really doesn't belong in an article about CJD, much less in an article about George Balanchine. If it came from an animal, it wasn't CJD, it was some other (variant) disease. The speculation was that of Balanchine's UROLOGIST (not a neurologist) Robert D. Wickham, and is unfounded. This mode of transmission is not established. -- Someone else 01:22 &:25, 12 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Nutcracker
The trademarked title of this production is George Balanchine's The Nutcracker (just going by what's official).--tufkaa 21:03, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Slaughter
I re-worded to keep with the format of categorizing his works by which company they were created for.--tufkaa 21:03, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Ballets Russes de Monte-Carlo vs, Ballet Russe de Monte-Carlo
In his list of choreographed works there are two seperate groups, one spelled in the singular, the other in the plural; they do not overlap by date except for the last ballet in each, La Sonnambula and Raymonda, both from 1946. Should these be merged, or should La Sonnambula join Raymonda in the latter group? They look like this but with the numbers 4.2 ande 4.8:

for the Ballets Russes de Monte-Carlo

 * Cotillon (1932)
 * Concurrence (1932)
 * Danses Concertantes (1944/1972)
 * La Sonnambula (1946)

for the Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo:

 * Song of Norway (1944)
 * Danses Concertantes (1944)
 * Le Bourgeois gentilhomme (1944)
 * Pas de Deux (Grand'adagio) (1945)
 * The Night Shadow (1946)
 * Raymonda (1946)

Ballet titles in general
The titles of ballets need to be reconciled with those on the List of New York City Ballet repertory page, which are listed as they appear on City Ballet's website (with a few minor corrections). Robert Greer (talk) 17:27, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo
Not Ballets Russes de Monte Carlo; but Ballets Russes without the de Monte Carlo is a different albeit related company. Robert Greer (talk) 22:09, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Use of Image:Stravinsky_and_balanchine.jpg
Unfortunately, non-free images of book covers cannot be used for artist identification purposes within infoboxes. See WP:NFC Item 1, Cover art. This photo can only be used in the Balanchine article if it is placed adjacent to a discussion of the book. D7240 (talk) 12:20, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Errors in Article?
I think there might be several errors in this article. According to an April 12th, 2008, article in The Economist, Georgi "moved in 1913 from rural Finland to St. Petersburg." (Was he born in Finland?) Also, according to this article he did not defect in London, rather, "he travelled to East Prussia with the Soviet State Dancers; refusing an order to return home, he defected and fled to Paris, where another Russian exile, Sergei Diaghilev, hired him as a choreographer for the Ballets Russes.  After a brief stint in Lond, George Balanchine (as he was by then) moved to America in 1933, where he founded American ballet..."

The source for this is:
 * "America's Performing Arts: Made in Europe. The Economist, April 12, 2008, p. 94. Book review of Artists in Exile: How Refugees from Twentieth-Century War and Revolution Transformed the American Performing Arts. By Joseph Horowitz, HarperCollins, 2008.

If there are no objections I will change the text in the article. Renee (talk) 12:28, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

please
Please do so; Horowitz is the latest word! — Robert Greer 23:33, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Will do. Renee (talk) 00:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Nice work! — Robert Greer (talk) 22:21, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Please, no gossip
Terms like "heartbroken" and "talented" and speculation about motives have no place in Wikipedia articles. — J M Rice (talk) 06:18, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Absolutely correct! — Robert Greer (talk) 12:10, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Tschaikovsky vs. Tchaikovsky
"How should the name of the composer of the music for “Serenade” be spelled? Most Westerners now spell it Tchaikovsky, but City Ballet took up, during Balanchine’s lifetime, the spelling Tschaikovsky. Why? Because that’s how the composer spelled it when he was in New York in 1891. (My thanks to the reader who sent me a copy of his Carnegie Hall autograph from the Pierpont Morgan Library.)"


 * NY Times article by Alastair Macaulay, June 1, 2007

Article seems thin on Balanchine's contributions
This is one of the most poorly written articles on Balanchine I have ever read! Gaps, inaccuracies, rumors, and no attempt whatsoever to discuss his unique contributions to dance that left the world considering Balanchine a genius (other than a litany of names of the dances themselves - even that incomplete, although widely available). Better to take the article down until you can do better. Shame on you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.252.104.67 (talk) 05:55, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

I accessed this page hoping to understand more specifics of what Balanchine's impact on ballet was. Aside from the sentence about him being a link between classical and modern dance, there wasn't much there. I've heard that he was somewhat revolutionary, but you wouldn't pick that up from this articule, which is more a catalog of his love-life.


 * I agree. His early history has been restarted. I added most of his choreographies. The Trust will be putting out a complete list soon (400+ choreographies).--tufkaa 05:15, 14 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if it's of interest, but Balanchine is noted for his use of African American vernacular dance themes in his choreography. His work on the film Cabin in the Sky is a good example. African American dance scholars such as Tommy DeFrantz, Katrina Hazzard Gordon and Brenda Dixon Gottschild discuss Balanchine at length for his use of African American movement and aesthetics, as well as his work _with_ African American dancers. A survey of African American presence in American ballet would reveal Balanchine's important role.

Category:Eastern Bloc defectors vs. Category:Soviet defectors
Category:Soviet defectors is itself a category within Category:Eastern Bloc defectors. — Robert Greer (talk) 17:48, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Georgian name
Balanchine was an American, not Georgian. He was of half-Georgian and half-Russian descent, so his name in Georgian (and maybe in Russian too) can be added only in relevant section. And please provide any sources for his Georgian name. Rast5 (talk) 15:22, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * First off, he was born under the Georgian surname. So I don't see any reason why his birthname should be removed from the intro. Second, both Russians and Georgians define ethnicity through a paternal line. Third, I agree he was born in the Russian milieu and to a Russian mother. So both Georgian and Russian names have place in the lead section. Finally, I don't fully understand what you mean by "sources for his Georgian name". Do we need sources for the Russian name of Tchaikovsky?--KoberTalk 17:35, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Was this Georgian surname written in Georgian script? Unless it was, or unless he used it at some point during his life, I can see no justification for his name appearing in Georgian in the infobox. Though such appropriation of personal identities for ethnic purposes seems common on Wikipedia. Here is another example: Yo-Yo Ma. Though for Tchaikovsky, there is no infobox in Cyrillic - I guess the Russians don't go around with a big enough chip on their shoulders to bother about appropriating him for some ethnic irredentism even though he was more "Russian" that Balanchine was "Georgian" or Ma is "Chinese". Meowy  22:10, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * What do "appropriation of personal identities for ethnic purposes" and "ethnic irredentism" have to do with all of these? The guy was not a distance scion of the Georgian family, but he was born to a father with a distinct Georgian identity and under the Georgian surname. So what's the problem with having the Georgian surname written in a Georgian script? --KoberTalk 04:36, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * His mother wasn't Georgian, he wasn't born in Georgia, he didn't grow up in Georgia. he never lived in Georgia, none of his many wives/partners were Georgian, his career was in an art form that did not originate in Georgia nor one that has been particularly influenced by Georgia, his work does not appear to have had a connection to Georgian culture or ethnicity. Did he speak any Georgian? Are there any examaples at all where he has gave an indication that he considered himself to be a Georgian? Beyond his father having been Georgian, there seems to be no obvious Georgian connections strong enough to label him "Georgian" - so it is just a case of ethnic irredentism to claim him as a "Georgian". There are no genetic markers for being a "Georgian" or a genetic test that would distinguish "non-Georgians" from "Georgians". Meowy 16:51, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but I don't see the discussion of his ethnic identity in the article. "there seems to be no obvious Georgian connections strong enough to label him "Georgian": Where do you see such labels? So I don't really understand your grievances here.--KoberTalk 17:01, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I won't defend a "genetic" or "ethnic" claim to Balanchine's Georgian-ness, as I agree that would not be relevant, but sources indicate that Balanchine considered himself Georgian (which doesn't mean it was his only self-identification, but still). See Taper's biography, page 25, "'We Georgians are not Russians in culture, not at all', he sometimes declared in his Russian-flavored accent." That seems to be an example of "an indication that he considered himself to be a Georgian", as was asked by Meowy. Cultural conceptions of nationality in the Russian Empire and Soviet Union (and still in those countries nowadays) are quite different from those in the west, and individuals often appropriate them to define themselves...--Susuman77 (talk) 15:13, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that answers the question about whether he considered himself to be Georgian (as opposed to being Russian). However, it doesn't answer my "why should his name be rendered in Georgian script in the infobox heading" question? Atom Egoyan isn't rendered in Armenian, Steven Spielberg isn't rendered in Hebrew, Jennifer Aniston isn't rendered in Greek, Mark Rothko isn't rendered in Cyrillic. I'm runnning out of alphabets - but you get the idea! Meowy 23:11, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I get it, and tend to agree that the Georgian script is out of place in the infobox. I still think it should stay, along with the script, in the lead (as in the case you quoted of Atom Egoyan). I just read the article Andria Balanchivadze, Balanchine's brother, a very official Soviet-Georgian composer, who spent most of his life in Tbilisi. You can read here (Taper's bio) about Balanchine's visit to Tbilisi and the awkward reunion of the brothers in the 1960s (unanswered question: what language did they speak to each other?). The family was Georgian, and Balanchine both came from there and tried to get away from it; still, it remained part of his personality his whole life, as with many emigres. Putting his full birth name in the lead, in the appropriate scripts, after the name he chose and was known by, reminds the reader of both his origin and of the fact he moved away from it.--Susuman77 (talk) 00:09, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Adjustments to "Escape to the West"
Diaghilev was not, strictly, an "exile" ... like many of the other Russians living in Paris at the time, he had voluntarily left Russia long before the 1917 Revolution ... moreover, the Ballets Russes (established in 1909) was not "new" by the time Balanchine got there. Yankeecook (talk) 09:30, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

'Often styled as'
Could 69.255.76.231 please add the precise words into the note, or quote them here and I will add them in. I am the editor who made the change which 69.255.76.231, I wasn't logged in at the time.Sceptic1954 (talk) 10:21, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

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Attn. Editors- Re: New Section For Notable Students Including - Francisco Moncion and Nicholas Magallanes
Hello Fellow Wikipedians and Editors - I've included a small section for those notable students of Balanchine who were directly influenced by the master's instructions and artistic vision over the decades and included references for Francisco Moncion (who studied with Balanchine at the School of American Ballet) and Nicholas Magallanes (who also studied with Balanchine at the School of American Ballet). I hope that this is permitted and helpful in so far as it underscores Balanchine's legacy not only as a leading choreography but as an educator as well. Many thanks for your kind consideration. Respectfully, 104.207.219.150 (talk) 23:13, 17 May 2018 (UTC)PS

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 5 September 2019 and 16 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ryan david24.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:15, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Actor or dancer?
It seems strange to me that, in the info box on Balanchine, under "Occupation," he's listed as "choreographer, actor, director." I would advocate for replacing "actor" with "dancer," as he did train for a career as a ballet dancer, and danced professionally for a time, even as he was developing as a young choreographer. The article lists no credits for him as an actor, and notes that, while still working with Diaghilev's company, he suffered a serious knee injury and "had to limit his dancing, effectively ending his performance career." The only "actor" credits I find for him on imdb.com are three, all for performances in ballets, and there are none on ibdb.com. He did of course perform the role of Don Quixote decades later in his production of the ballet, but if playing character roles within ballets makes someone an actor, especially to the exclusion of being a dancer, then most long-lived ballet dancers (not to mention all opera singers) must be listed as actors; really though, they are mostly dancers (or singers) acting characters within their dancing (or singing) roles. In some cases (Robert Helpmann, Moira Shearer, Leslie Caron, Vera Zorina, Marc Platt, Tommy Rall, Alexander Godunov, as examples), artists definitely should be listed as both dancers and actors, but I really don't think G. Balanchine falls into this category.Toscaskiss32 (talk) 16:05, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I am in total agreement. — Robert Greer (talk) 01:05, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ I also agree, I have removed it. Alexcalamaro (talk) 04:33, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Clive James
'James Clive' should be 'Clive James' (author of Cultural Amnesia) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.147.9.233 (talk) 18:48, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
 * ✔️. Alexcalamaro (talk) 04:33, 31 May 2022 (UTC)