Talk:George Carteret

Sir George Carteret Lineage
It seems that this article is not at all correct in the lineage department but I want to get someone else to look at this piece of information first.

On the 17th of February either 1648, or 1649. The names Elias Dumaresq is a Juror in Sir George Carteret's court. Sir George Carteret is listed as the Lieutenant Governor with Helier de Carteret listed as the Attorney General within the NOTES section on page 349. The reason I report this is to determine if this is simply not the case of a hastily devised article. It seem as in the LIVE article the ==Early Life== section for Sir George Carteret is reporting Elias Dumaresq and Elizabeth Dumaresq as the parents of Sir George Carteret, incorrectly so.

Accessing the following book:

An Account of the island of Jersey With an Appendix of Records, etc. By The Reverend Philipe Falle To Which Are Added, Notes and Illustrations By Reverend Edward Durell, M.A. Rector of Saint Saviour, Jersey 1834

http://books.google.com/books?id=L5c4AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA349&dq=Elias+de+Carteret+Jersey+and+Helier+de+Carteret&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HKnEUJX8JKay0AH0-4HQDg&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Elias%20de%20Carteret%20Jersey%20and%20Helier%20de%20Carteret&f=false

This is the search that generates the correct page to see the referenced material in context. Since the correct name for this person is George de Carteret, should that not be used instead of his styled name?

Once you have viewed this piece, simply modify the search to see much more on the De Carteret family. Unless I get an update by end-of-day today, I plan to modify the document to comply with the historic record.

Kindly, VoodooShamen (talk) 15:34, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Untitled
Would be good if someone could tie George to the other Carteret's, starting with John and following to various Seigneurs of Sark (snark snark). All I know is that George's first son was Philip who was the first governor of New Jersey (well, not quite first - Col. Richard Nicolls had governed it after conquest without knowing that it had already been given to Carteret and Berkeley. Boy did THAT cause trouble later when the proprietors tried to get quitrents from the original Nicolls patentess, who...but I digress)

The second son of George, James, staged a coup in 1672 when Philip was back in England, but that only lasted just over a year.

Them's all the Carteret's I know about, so perhaps someone could identify the link between George and the first of those Sarks: Hellier De Carteret.

ArloBee 02:49 27 May 2003 (UTC) Hellion of Cologne, New Jersey.


 * According to this page] he was son of Helier Carteret. If so, I have a slightly different birthdate for him (between 1609 and 1617). Did his first son marry Jemima Montagu, daughter of the 1st Earl of Sandwich? If so, (and if his wife's maiden name was Elizabeth Carteret) that's our man. -- Someone else 03:03 27 May 2003 (UTC)


 * that article says that George was born in 1599, as does my source (NJ Archives), and he died in January 1679/1680. His wife's name was (Lady)Elizabeth (and that's where Elizabeth-town got its name), and his eldest son Philip also married an Elizabeth, and after Philip died in 1684 there was some dispute over whether she could keep the mansion they lived in at Elizabethtown after she married a Townley in 1685.  Now the Seigneurs of Sarkpage has 1563 to 1578 as the period that Hellier was SoS, whichc I would presume implies that H died in 1578 - if so he could not be George's dad.  Perplexing. ArloBee 03:38 27 May 2003 (UTC)


 * I still think that may be him (son of Helier Carteret, Seigneur of St. Owen and his wife Elizabeth Dumaresq... they reused the Helier name a lot in this family). Obviously we need more info, I"ll keep looking! -- Someone else 03:46 27 May 2003 (UTC)


 * the 1911 Brittanica raises doubts that Philip (gov of New Jersey) was a *son* of George: calling him "a relative" the plot thickens.... ArloBee 03:53 27 May 2003 (UTC)


 * Helier de Carteret, 1st Seigneur of Sark, was Sir George's Great Grandfather.
 * I can clear up the Philippe matter thus... George did have a son called Philippe, but he was not the NJ Governor.  Georges son can be distinguished as the only Carteret who was a Fellow of the Royal Society.  I have  created a new Wiki page concerning him, linked in above.
 * Phillipe, NJ Governor, was actually a cousin of George and part of the Trinity, Jersey, branch of the family. Coincidentally he had a father called Helier, (nearly as popular as Philip varients), and a wife called Elizabeth.  Although Elizabethtown, NJ, was named for George de Carteret's wife Elizabeth, not Philip's wife.
 * Person sheets linking into the family's database can be found at the end of each Carteret page. The family website can be found at []NThomas82 17:43, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Place of birth
Does anyone know, for sure, where he was born? In Jersey, or elsewhere? Danrok (talk) 21:58, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Sir George Carteret, Baronet
In an edit yesterday by Salvio, there is a portion of the article that suggests that "this" george at age 13 commanded the HMS Mary Rose as he was born circa 1610 and commanded the ship in 1623 per the commands section of the article. This article needs to be rewritten. The information here is not reliable. The information below does more to correct the article without the references being used. There is a large body of resource in a number of places that contradict the information being added to this article.

There is a discrepancy in the birth year of George Carteret and his father's name. Sir George Carteret, Baronet, was born on the Island of Jersey in 1599, his father is reported as Helier Carteret, Lord Deputy Governor of Jersey at the time.


 * 1) George entered the Navy at an early age and in 1626 was appointed joint Governor of Jersey
 * 2) In 1640 Comptroller of all his Majesty's ships
 * 3) May, 1645, was styled a Baronet.
 * 4) 1650, fitted the SHIP NAME and began to provision ship and passengers.

At the onset of the English Civil War George retired from the Royal Navy and withdrew to Jersey where he fought the Parliamentarians. In Jersey, George received the Prince of Wales and then Charles II and his devout following. Upon Charles II's ousting by Oliver Cromwell, George Carteret followed the ousted King to France in 1652 where he was captured and thrown in the Bastile in 1657 in a charge by Oliver Cromwell's ambassador and banished from France. George arrived in Brussels in 1659 as King Charles II was preparing to return and regain control over Parliament and remove the Roundheads or Protestants of Cromwell from power. George was a part of the King's entourage that ascended on London in 1660. Sir George Carteret was appointed Vice Chairman of the Privy Council and given authority as the Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy. In 1665 George and his associations made their way to the colonies and landed in what is now New Jersey. DATE elected to represent Portsmouth. In 1668 George was appointed to the Board of Trade and in 1669 expelled from the House of Commons on charges of embezzlement. By 1673 George was appointed one of the Lords of the Admiralty and continued to occupy office until his death on the 14th of January, 1679 when he died at Whitehall. The Baronet's remains are interred at Haynes,_Bedfordshire previously named Hawnes in the County Town of Bedford.

I suggest changing the information within the Sir_George_Carteret,_1st_Baronet to reflect the corrected information.

VoodooShamen (talk) 14:44, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Where has the name Elias appeared from? As far as I can see, Sir George Carteret, 1st Baronet father's name is Helier de Carteret. It may be that he was also known as Elias. Danrok (talk) 19:41, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

OK, now I have found some info which should be reliable, here

His father is called Elie de Carteret according to that, and I can find references to an Elie de Carteret Vincheles (Vinchelez in St Ouen) here Danrok (talk) 16:23, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Here is another reference to a Wikipedia article that expands this to some degree and notes that a 14 year old became Baron_Carteret. Thus, I believe we are on the right trail.

Also, it seems to me, a genealogist and historian that there may be a more strait forward issue with this person and the name Helier versus Elias, or Elie. If as is the case, the name is French in origin, would it make more sense that the name Helier may be transliterated as Elier, Elias, or even Elie. I mean the "H" in French would more closely represent a "SILENT" letter as would the ending letter of "R" whereby the H and R would have been dropped by matter of the phonetic pronunciation in the form of an English name for the name (H)elie(R)? Just an observation as we approach Anglicization of the French name.

VoodooShamen (talk) 17:25, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

I will make rewrites to the 3 articles in the next 3-4 days.

VoodooShamen (talk) 17:27, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

That makes some sense, and the Latin for Helier is Helerius which of course sounds like Elias. Danrok (talk) 12:18, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Plain old George
Article has been moved a few times, without discussion. Unless someone offers a good counterargument, seems to me the examples of Gilbert du Motier, Marquis de Lafayette and Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington should guide. Aristocrats, whether by inheritance or creation, are called by both proper name and title. Jim.henderson (talk) 18:15, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Jim,

So we have the referenced materials for the Marquis de Lafayette, Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington, etc. and then your retraction. I think this talk page is out of date or something. In any event please update the talk page with the next actions.

Change the aforementioned pages to reflect only the given name and change the subject of this talk session to be the same. Would you say that is correct?

You know, it does, as I ponder it, make a great deal more sense to use the name and the various titles held in peerage, or otherwise under the person's given name. There are tons of examples in every direction.

So I see a basic three tiered approach. The Person Document > The Honorary Title Document such as Baron, Duke, Knight, etc.? with iiluminating text in a section such as ===Early Life=== or perhaps ===Nobility Titles=== or something along those lines. > Linking to other Wikipedia articles to support the refined association from one article to another.

I await your direction on how to proceed.

Kindly, Allen

75.189.246.44 (talk) 14:07, 6 December 2012 (UTC) 75.189.246.44 (talk) 14:10, 6 December 2012 (UTC) VoodooShamen (Forgot to refresh LOGIN.)

Name Plan
Yeah, I am with Mr. Henderson here. I do not want to move the articles, but I would like the articles to be connected to one another and in the proper form and consistency using Mr. Henderson's examples.

I will then commit to making the changes uniform throughout the three articles. I will also make complete references to what ever materials I use to iron this subject out in a more clear and precise manner and make intelligent choices for linking to other articles illuminating the subject matter.

VoodooShamen (talk) 18:48, 5 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Oops! Somehow my retraction got lost. Naming_conventions_(royalty_and_nobility) clearly says
 * 3. "Baronets should generally have their article located at the simple name, e.g. George Albu".
 * Clearly I was mistaken, retract my earlier comment, and propose to follow the Naming Convention for Baronets. Jim.henderson (talk) 18:29, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

His name on the first line of the lead doesn't look right to me. I'm not sure that there should be a semicolon in there. For example: Admiral Sir Mark Stanhope (No semicolon). Danrok (talk) 19:52, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:24, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Statue of George Carteret.png

This sentence…
… needs fixing.

‘He stayed in exile in France for a six years until he was imprisoned in 1657, thence he ventured to Venice’

’for a six years’?

And thence ventured to Venice. For how long was he imprisoned? Where? Date of move to Venice? 110.144.207.57 (talk) 03:26, 5 April 2024 (UTC)