Talk:George Frideric Handel/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Tim riley (talk · contribs) 08:27, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Starting first read-through today. Preliminary comment is that the lead is very short, and I doubt if I shall find that it summarises all aspects of the article. More soonest. Tim riley (talk) 08:27, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

First batch of comments


 * General
 * Spelling – is a mixture of English and American: "naturalised", "analysed", "favourite", "travelled", "paralysed" etc in UK spellings and "skillful", "traveled", "rumored" etc in American. You need to standardise on one or the other (preferably British for an article about a naturalised Briton, I'd say).
 * Lead
 * Much too short: see GA articles on Gabriel Fauré, Felix Mendelssohn or Richard Wagner for examples of suitable leads for articles on composers
 * WP:OVERLINK – remove link from "British"
 * Early years
 * Remove italics from quotation – see Manual of Style (main MoS points are not mandatory for GA, but it's as well to comply with them)
 * "According to legend…" – citation missing
 * "…to listen to the important young man" – odd wording, and needs a citation in any event
 * From Halle to Italy
 * "There he met Johann Mattheson, Christoph Graupner and Reinhard Keiser." You can't expect your readers to click on each blue link just to find out who these luminaries were – you should say something like "the composers Johann…." etc.
 * "1703/1704" – Wikipedia style is an en-dash for date ranges
 * "Ferdinando had made Florence Italy's musical capital" – who says so?
 * "He had a rumored love affair" – ambiguous: does it refer to Handel or Salvi?
 * "from this era.:[24, 26]" – unusual referencing style here – unclear why
 * "Palace of Cardinals Pietro Ottoboni, Benedetto Pamphili and Carlo Colonna" – one palace between the three of them or one each?
 * "The opera … ran for an unprecedented 27 performances"- citation lacking
 * "It showed remarkable maturity and established Handel's reputation as a composer of opera" – two statements lacking citations
 * Move to London
 * "Handel enjoyed great success, 'but it is difficult…'" You ought, I think, to attribute this quotation within the text.
 * "one of Handel's favourite arias, Cara sposa, amante cara" – do you mean one of the arias that Handel liked best or one of his arias that is a popular favourite? Citation needed either way.
 * "For him Handel wrote Amadigi di Gaula…" – already tagged (and I don't disagree with the tag); and why upper case for "Damsel"? This paragraph lacks citations throughout.
 * "….such as Anne Vaughan, the Duchess of Bolton, Countess Godolphin, Countess of Darlington and the Earl of Orkney." – Does this list of guests add anything of value to the sentence?
 * "…used the tides of the river". To do what, and why does it matter here?

More to come. There is a lot to be done to raise the article to GA level, but I'll press on with my list before putting the review on hold if necessary. Tim riley (talk) 10:05, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

As nobody seems interested in responding to this first batch of comments, I propose to fail the article in the next day or so. Tim riley (talk) 13:59, 30 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I have been working on it (in my own slow way). I just haven't spoken here. Herr Beethoven (talk) 00:47, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay. Second batch of comments follows.


 * Cannons
 * "Romain Rolland stated" – citation needed
 * Royal Academy of Music
 * "newly–built opera" – seems to be an en-dash where a hyphen is wanted
 * "engaged the cast for the Royal Academy of Music" – second blue link for this within a few lines – needed?
 * "Giulio Cesare, Tamerlano and Rodelinda" – itals needed
 * "Winton Dean acclaimed this" – citation lacking
 * "from which we have the regimental slow march" – unsuitable first person phrasing
 * "has been played at every British coronation ceremony since" – citation needed
 * "The Beggar's Opera" – italics needed
 * "the longest run in theatre history up to that time" – citation needed
 * "The Queen's Theatre in Haymarket" – The Haymarket always has a definite article
 * "Esther and Deborah" – itals needed
 * "Acis and Galathea" – spelling? No 'h' at earlier mentions. And needs italicising
 * "Parnasso in Festa" – itals
 * Opera at Covent Garden (1734–41)
 * "renowned for his spectacular productions: he suggested" – the colon implies some connection between the first and second halves of the sentence that is not clear.
 * "Terpsichore" – itals needed
 * "Ariodante" – ditto
 * "John Beard (tenor)" – looks as though the usual piping is missing here.
 * "Deidamia" – itals needed
 * "Having lost a fortune in operatic management" – someone else has already tagged this with "citation needed"" – rightly so
 * Last three sentences of this section are also uncited.
 * Oratorio
 * Citations needed for the first two sentences.
 * "in which the anthem character is very clear" – it is not clear what this means" – the lay person reading it might be glad of an explanation
 * "Unfortunately" – the MoS discourages such editorialising words
 * "Another twelve years had passed" – the MoS would have us use figures for numbers over 10.
 * "Next came Deborah" – two separate statements in this sentence require citations.
 * "Obviously Handel" – unless you are quoting, this is another editorialising word.
 * "It is evident how much he learnt" – citations needed for all three statements in this sentence
 * "…for the rest of his life" – the rest of whose life, Beard's or Handel's?
 * "Israel in Egypt consists of little else but choruses, borrowing…" – citation needed
 * "…has a rather diverting character; the work is light and fresh." – citation needed
 * "…the 3rd Duke of Devonshire" – you haven't given the Earl of Essex his succession number, earlier; why give the Duke of Devonshire's?
 * "Handel secured a balance" – citation needed
 * Last paragraph – citations needed for first two sentences.
 * Later years
 * First para – five sentences make statements that lack citations
 * "In 1751 one eye started to fail." – this and the next three sentences are uncited.
 * "More than three thousand mourners attended his funeral, which was given full state honours" – both statements need citations

More to come. (Incidentally, while I was reviewing these sections, another editor moved the images around, causing large gaps of white space throughout the article. I have reverted these changes.) Tim riley (talk) 09:05, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Afterthought: since I last looked, the lead section has changed from inadequate to dreadful. Several of the sentences are in very poor English, but that is easily fixed. Much more serious is what the lead now includes and omits. The lead – and this is a condition of GA – should touch on all the most important points that follow in the main text and should not contain anything of substance that isn't in the body of the text. See Manual of Style/Lead section. I suggest you leave it for now, and return to it at the end of this review, when the main text has been finalised. Tim riley (talk) 10:10, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

I shall be away from 4th to 11th October, with limited access to the internet. I'll put the review on hold, and resume on my return, by when with any luck we shall have had some more progress. Tim riley (talk) 19:04, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
 * On hold

Is there any progress with this review? Not many of the concerns mentioned above have been dealt with. Tim riley (talk) 18:17, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Last orders, please
If there is no progress on this article and in responses to outstanding comments within 48 hours I propose to fail it. Tim riley (talk) 19:55, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

There being no further progress, I am now failing this candidacy for GA. There are multiple problems with the prose and with missing citations. There is much excellent stuff in the article, and I hope the nominator or someone else will take it in hand and bring it up to GA level on both counts. Tim riley (talk) 15:49, 22 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I just can't find the time to put the work into it. Herr Beethoven (talk) 03:38, 25 October 2011 (UTC)