Talk:George Huebner/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: DavidCane (talk · contribs) 21:16, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Taking each section in turn.

Lead

 * The University Record obituary (source 44) gives his death date as October 4 not September 4. The other obituary from Detroit News (which lacks a link) is dated 8 October. It would be more usual for an obituary in a major newspaper to be a few days after a person's death, not over a month later. Can you check the date.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:44, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ❌ We now have a different problem. The lead and "Later life, legacy, and death" section now say February 19, 1996 for his death date and the info box September 4 1996. Source 6 says he died on September 4 1996. Source 57 is for a "George J Huebner" who died in Decorah, Iowa (400 miles from Ann Arbor), Source 58 is for the same person but gives a middle initial of A. Given the context, source 6 is the correct one and the others are for someone with a similar name. A check on ancestry.com shows that the George Huebner who died in Iowa was born in Iowa not Michigan.--DavidCane (talk) 13:23, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:49, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * ❌ - No, this is wrong. You've changed it the wrong way. It should be September 4 1996, as per source '
 * ✅ - George John Huebner Jr. (September 8, 1910 – September 4, 1996) was an American executive engineer --Doug Coldwell (talk) 22:12, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

6.--DavidCane (talk) 17:04, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * "He developed the first practical gas turbine engine for a passenger automobile." Practical in what sense? In whose judgment? The article on gas turbine engines describes others that predated Huebner's design. What makes his design "practical" and the others not?
 * ✅ - He had developed the first practical gas turbine engine for a passenger car through the use of science and the early use of computer assisted engineering. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:38, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Early life

 * Date of birth: Is this in one of the sources?
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 15:12, 14 June 2020 (UTC)


 * The Gas Turbine International source used for ref 1 does not provide the title of the article. Based on the contents page to the magazine the title should be "Profile: George S. Huebner, Jr.". Is there an author and are there issue number, volume number (the google books link is to "Volumes 1-3"), publication date, place of publication for the source? Note his name in the title of the article is George John Huebner Jr., but the GTI "Profile" title appears to give his middle initial as "S." Did George Jr. have a different middle name from George Sr. an additional middle name or is this a typo by the magazine?
 * ✅ - It's a typo by the magazine as I have checked many sources and they all say George John Huebner Jr, like here from the University of Michigan, The Michigan Alumnus - Page 16 --Doug Coldwell (talk) 15:31, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Still need to format the source correctly with the correct citation information.--DavidCane (talk) 13:58, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Mid life and career

 * "Mid life" should be hyphenated.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 15:36, 14 June 2020 (UTC)


 * If he enrolled at university at 16 (1926), why did it take him six years to graduate (1932). Was his course part time all the way through or was there some other cause for the extended undergraduate period?
 * ✅ - He first became a stock broker and later change his mind to become an engineer. Expanded Early-life section to reflect this. Looking at the sequence of events, this is how I see what happen in his career. He studied 4 years at the University of Michigan to become a stock broker. Started his own firm in 1930, following his father's footsteps (see "Corporate Trust Shares"). I see he also advertised his Detroit firm in 1931, so was still doing his own business then. Then just prior to 1932 he got interested in engineering and (probably) attended one additional year (or a little more) to pick up engineering courses. Since the University gave him a degree, he likely studied for at least one year in that field. So, although he graduated in 1932 he may have actually gone to the University for 5 years. BTW, I am now living in Ludington, Michigan and raised in Flint, Michigan.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 16:14, 14 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Where did he join Chrysler? In Detroit?
 * ✅ - Detroit. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 16:17, 14 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Sentence starting "He was at first..." needs commas around "at first" and "in 1936"
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 16:17, 14 June 2020 (UTC)


 * "Went to the Central Engineering Division" is this in same place he was before (i.e. he transferred from one department to another), or somewhere else (i.e. he change location).
 * ✅ - Central Engineering Division within Chrysler Corporation --Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:35, 15 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Did he work with or for Carl Breer?
 * ✅ = "assistant" - See first paragraph of section Mid-life.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:39, 15 June 2020 (UTC)


 * "one of the core engineers of 15 years before". What does this mean? core to what? 15 years before being 1924.
 * ✅ - 15 years before being 1924 = YES. c/e pipe = Carl_Breer#Walter_P._Chrysler_association|the core engineers


 * V-16 fighter engine:
 * --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:07, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Did it have a name?
 * ✅ See first paragraph of section Mid-life. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:56, 15 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Was it manufactured?
 * ✅ See first paragraph of section Mid-life. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:56, 15 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Was it put into any planes?
 * ✅ See first paragraph of section Mid-life. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:56, 15 June 2020 (UTC)


 * When in the 1940s? Wartime or peacetime?
 * ✅ See first paragraph of section Mid-life. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:56, 15 June 2020 (UTC)


 * "with a group of engineers". Was he leading a group or part of a group?
 * ✅ See first paragraph of section Mid-life. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:56, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

--Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:07, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * 1949 turboprop engine:
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Did it have a name?
 * ✅ See second paragraph of section Mid-life. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:35, 15 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Was it manufactured?
 * ✅ See second paragraph of section Mid-life. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:35, 15 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Was it put into any planes?
 * ✅ See second paragraph of section Mid-life. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:35, 15 June 2020 (UTC)


 * When did he become Chief Engineer of the Research Division?
 * ✅ See second paragraph of section Mid-life. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:08, 16 June 2020 (UTC)


 * He goes from being chief engineer of the Research Division to Director of Research in 1955 then research engineer (when?) which is what he started as in 1931.
 * ✅ - Huebner was made chief engineer in 1946 when Chrysler reorganized their research department (second paragraph of section Mid-life). He was still in this position in 1952 (third paragraph). He became Director of Research in 1955 (fourth paragraph). --Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:08, 16 June 2020 (UTC)


 * V8 Hemispherical engine:
 * --Doug Coldwell (talk) 15:00, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)


 * "He was responsible for the design of the first automotive V-8 engine with a hemispherical combustion chamber". Not clear what the claim is here and the chronology needs to be adjusted as it appears after things that happened later. The article on hemispherical combustion chamber indicates that this type of chamber was in use from 1901 and that Ford first used these on a V8 in 1947.
 * ✅ - copy edited fourth paragraph of Mid-life accordingly. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:45, 16 June 2020 (UTC)


 * When was Huebner's design produced? The Chrysler Hemi engine article says it was first produced in 1950 as the FirePower.
 * ✅ - Never was (see seventh paragraph of Mid-life). --Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:45, 16 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Chronology seems wrong here, especially when his two years away working on rockets between 1953 and 1955 is taken into account.
 * ✅ - reversed last paragraph with the previous one. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:45, 16 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Gas turbine engine:
 * --Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:45, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The paragraphs on the gas turbine engine should be a sub-section within the Mid life and career section.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:15, 16 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Should link to Chrysler turbine engines
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:15, 16 June 2020 (UTC)


 * The paragraph on the cross country journey needs a bit of editing:
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:15, 16 June 2020 (UTC)


 * It mentions he designed the engine twice.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:15, 16 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Plymouth is mentioned twice
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:15, 16 June 2020 (UTC)


 * first transcontinental trip of a gas turbine car is stated twice
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:15, 16 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Could we briefly explain:
 * --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:16, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)


 * What led him to develop the turbine engine?
 * ✅ - Because of the pure and applied science involved. See first paragraph of section on Mid-life. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:18, 16 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Why he continued to develop it despite it being expensive and having poor fuel economy?
 * ✅ - Chrysler believed it would revolutionize passenger cars in time through mass-production.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:02, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * What Chrysler's expectations and view of the project were?
 * ✅ -- See last paragraph in Mid-life section. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:02, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * During which period were the six generations of engine developed? Just "the next ten years" or "continued to advance this technology until his death" which is stated in the Later life section. The Chrysler Turbine Car article states that development began in the 1930s.
 * First sentence reply = between 1950 and 1970 --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:16, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Second sentence reply = AND it continues led primarily by executive engineer George Huebner. = See first paragraph of Mid-life section, as that is pretty much what I am also saying in the article I created on him. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:49, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * 50 experiment turbine powered automobiles:
 * --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:35, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)


 * "turbine powered" should be hyphenated.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:36, 16 June 2020 (UTC)


 * What were the problems?
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:44, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * What were the subjects of his engineering papers? Where were they published?
 * ✅ - references don't say. However I expanded that paragraph by listing of Huebner's research activities. That gives a hint on what those technical engineering papers were about. I suspect the Chrysler Corporation probably published his papers.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:19, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * "president of the Chrysler Institute of Engineering". Was this a new role or a role alongside his Director of Research role?
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:19, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * "In 1962 he was honored by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers". Honoured in what way?
 * ✅ - for his leadership in developing the technology for potential mass-produced turbine passenger automobiles.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:19, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * What other vehicle and/or engine projects did he work on?
 * ✅ - Abrams military tank. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:19, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Changes indicated above improve things a lot. Further comments arising from the above changes:
 * When I suggested sub-sections for Rockets and Turbine engines, I meant make a third level heading for each of these. Probably also need one for "Other research"
 * ✅--Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:17, 16 August 2020 (UTC)


 * "Huebner worked on concepts that were ten to twenty years into the future" is a bit sci-fi. Suggest something like "Huebner worked on advanced concepts with longer-term objectives that were expected to take ten to twenty years to achieve".
 * ✅--Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:26, 16 August 2020 (UTC)


 * V16 engine: Does "...discontinued in 1945 by the end of World War II." mean that development had been discontinued by the time the war ended or that it was discontinued because the war ended and it was no longer needed?
 * ✅--Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:26, 16 August 2020 (UTC)


 * "In 1962 he was honored by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers...", My question above was what honour/award was he given. Was it a trophy/medal/financial award or was it a guest of honour at a special dinner type thing?
 * ✅--Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:26, 16 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Also, could mention the award in 1959 of "the Buckendale Prize for computer-based engineering work by the Society of Automotive Engineers" (Furlong). This seems to mean that he gave the Buckendale Lecture lecture in 1960 (see here - note his employer is listed as General Dynamics Corp. not Chrysler).
 * ✅--Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:26, 16 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The images need to be placed adjacent to the text they relate to. The image of the Abrams tank would be better to use an actual photo rather than a cgi model.
 * ✅--Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:26, 16 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Link patent.
 * ✅--Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:26, 16 August 2020 (UTC)


 * "Huebner believed he had put in motion the idea that a gas turbine car was going to be the trend and the conventional 70 million piston-driven automobiles then on the road would be replaced by this technology" is a synthesis of the contents of the article linked in the citation, but I think it goes a bit too far on in a a couple of areas. The quote from Huebner uses "we" rather than "I".--DavidCane (talk) 16:54, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅--Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:26, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * All further issues have been addressed. Can you take another look. Thanks. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:26, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Rocket engines

 * This should be a sub-section of the career section before the turbine engine section.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:55, 15 June 2020 (UTC)


 * "Chrysler was awarded from the United States Army Ordnance Corps a contract in 1953 to produce intercontinental ballistic missiles":
 * --Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:55, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Wording is awkward.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:30, 15 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Check terminology of "intercontinental ballistic missile":
 * ✅ - s/b "guided missile" = fixed. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:30, 15 June 2020 (UTC)


 * The PGM-11 Redstone missile manufactured by Chrysler appears to have been a short-range missile not an intercontinental ballistic missile.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:42, 15 June 2020 (UTC)


 * The missile that followed on from it, the PGM-19 Jupiter, was a medium-range ballistic missile.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:42, 15 June 2020 (UTC)


 * The subsequent missiles were designed for space flight.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:42, 15 June 2020 (UTC)


 * What was his role and that of Chrysler?
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:19, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * The design of the rockets was be Von Braun and his engineers, the manufacture of the engines was by Rocketdyne. Fuselages were manufactured by Reynolds Metals Company and Ford Instrument Company made the controls and guidance systems.
 * ✅ Chrysler Corporation was awarded the prime production contract. These others are subcontractors.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:19, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Where was the rocket facility, where was Huebner at this time?
 * ✅ = Detroit --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:19, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * The article on the Redstone rocket says it was developed in Huntsville, Alabama.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:19, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * the PGM-11 Redstone section in the above says it was developed in West Germany.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:19, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * The PGM-11 Redstone article says it was manufactured at the Michigan Ordnance Missile Plant in Warren, Michigan.
 * ✅ Warren is very close to Detroit. I live in Michigan. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:19, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Later life, legacy, and death

 * He retired in 1975. What did he do between 1963, when the experimental cars were manufactured, and 1975? That's more than a quarter of his career not accounted for.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:53, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * "He had developed the first practical gas turbine engine for a passenger car and continued to advance this technology until his death":
 * ✅ - took out the work "this", as he advanced technology in general.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:53, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * As above, practical in what sense?
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:53, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * In who's judgement
 * ✅ - American Society of Mechanical Engineers. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:53, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * How did her continue to advance the technology until his death (i.e over the subsequent 21 years, up to 1996)?
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:53, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * "was known as the father of the automotive gas turbine engine" and "He was regarded as the father of Chrysler's turbine program".
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:53, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * These say basically the same thing in consecutive sentences. Suggest you combine.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:53, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Know by whom, regarded by whom?
 * ✅ - historians. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:53, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Family
When was the first marriage and divorce? When did he marry Trudy? Were Trudy's two sons with George or from an earlier marriage of her own?
 * ✅ - removed as I can not find references for this. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:45, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Status query
DavidCane, Doug Coldwell, where does this nomination stand? The last post to this page appears to have been on August 19, and the review had been open for over two months even then. It would be great to get this wrapped up before it hits three months. How much is left to do? Thank you both. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:11, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Wow, I'm sorry you've had to wait this long - I've made one section header change for the Career, but this looks great. Especially good work on the lead. I've gone through the review comments and changes, and I'm happy to pass this without further comment. Kingsif (talk) 16:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I've had to be away from Wikipedia due to work load. I'm back now and I see the article has been promoted. Sorry about the absence.--DavidCane (talk) 17:34, 24 October 2020 (UTC)