Talk:George Hunter Cary/GA1

GA Review
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Nominator: 03:21, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: UndercoverClassicist (talk · contribs) 12:24, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

I enjoyed this one -- a nice little article about an interesting, if no doubt frustrating, character. Comments below: I'll follow with spot checks once the content is looking to be where it's going to stay. UndercoverClassicist T·C 12:24, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Content

 * British English uses DMY dates: in templates, you can often add yes to achieve this. Canadian English is agnostic, but as he only spent four years in Canada, I think there's a much stronger WP:TIES argument for BrE.
 * This one doesn't seem to be addressed: dates should be e.g. . UndercoverClassicist T·C 08:03, 9 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Similarly, BrE avoids false titles in formal writing, so prefers "of the surgeon William Henry Cary" to "of surgeon William Henry Cary"
 * There are still a few of these (I noticed ). In a similar way, although I didn't make this explicit, BrE doesn't generally go for e.g. "Prime Minister Starmer" (that is, using a job as a title), preferring "the Prime Minister, Keir Starmer". See e.g., (this would be fine in AmerE),
 * Still a few of these. UndercoverClassicist T·C 08:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I would spell out that King's College was King's College London (perhaps "the city's King's College" if you want to avoid the repetition), since there's a more famous institution by the same name that was widely attended by people of his time and class. Certainly write it out in full as "King's College London" (NB no comma) in the infobox.
 * : I'd try to avoid the repetition here, though it's hardly a GA dealbreaker. UndercoverClassicist T·C 08:03, 9 July 2024 (UTC)


 * People are called to the bar. I'd also explain briefly what this means.
 * Could you use the marriage template in the infobox, as the dates are known?
 * "Lawmen" is not really a term in BrE. I think you mean "lawyers": "lawmen" in AmerE usually means people with big hats, badges and six-shooters.
 * I think it would be worth outlining what the Torrens title system was, as it's quite important to his career.
 * : as written, it's not clear whether this was Cary or Douglas.
 * Laws and statutes don't go in italics.
 * : I don't think you mean "dual" here (this was only one role: "dual" means "twofold in nature"): you could use secondary if you like, or -- probably better -- simply cut the adjective.
 * : why not four years?
 * : suggest making absolutely clear whether it is the Canadian or Australian one.
 * : BrE prefers probably.
 * Still present in e.g., and others. I used ctrl-f to cycle through uses of "likely". UndercoverClassicist T·C 08:03, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Now see . UndercoverClassicist T·C 08:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)


 * : is that a newspaper? Presumably, it was called The Colonist (note italics and capitalisation)?
 * : see above re false titles, though you might want to go for "a local politician, David...", as he's not otherwise well known.
 * : the technical term is for breach of the peace: I'd link it, too.
 * Pedantic, but there's no a in the offence name. UndercoverClassicist T·C 08:03, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 * BrE spells it stigmatisation and organising.
 * : ceremoniously means "respectfully": I think you mean ceremonially, which means "for ritual rather than for real".
 * : not quite grammatical: lacked any provision?
 * : not sure I understand what from means here. Are we saying that he charged the government too much money?
 * I think I now understand: we want, I think. UndercoverClassicist T·C 08:03, 9 July 2024 (UTC)


 * We should put the capitalisation of the British Columbian headline into title case per MOS:CONFORMTITLE.
 * : a bit MOS:CLICHE. See also
 * : as a verb, spelled practise in BrE.
 * : the MoS dislikes these kind of compounds: suggest John Ash, a physician and politician.
 * : a telegraph is a machine; the messages it sends are telegrams.
 * : in this format, needs a comma after the year, but as above I don't think it should be in this format anyway.
 * : who are we quoting here? We should attribute them.
 * Do we know where the obituary is from? In an ideal world, we would cite it directly (copying, if necessary, the citation from Taylor, perhaps as something like "The Times, 17 July 1866, quoted in Taylor 2018"


 * : exasperated means "deeply frustrated"; try exacerbated.
 * A small one, but it's exacerbated by, not exacerbated due to. <b style="color:#7F007F">UndercoverClassicist</b> T·C 08:03, 9 July 2024 (UTC)


 * : favourable in BrE.
 * : no hyphen after an ly-adverb.
 * : attribute the quote (it's the Colonist).
 * : defence
 * It's spelt in BrE, but more commonly called a stroke.
 * : endash here, as the prefix is two words.
 * This one still outstanding. <b style="color:#7F007F">UndercoverClassicist</b> T·C 08:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Generally speaking, titles like registrar and attorney general should be decapitalised, except when they're in apposition with someone's name ("Attorney General Smith") or used to stand for that person ("Cary shook hands with the Pope and slapped the Prime Minister").
 * This is not a GA dealbreaker, but also isn't done (see for instance ;

Image review: pass

 * File:George Hunter Cary (cropped).jpg (and full image): strictly speaking, we don't have a date of publication here, but as the BC archives don't assert a creator, we can reasonably assume that they died before c. 1929, and so that the image is PD.
 * File:Carey Castle - Lieutenant Governor of BC.jpg: the copyright here relies on the image being either Crown Copyright, or being produced before 1949, or by an author who died before 1972. Can we demonstrate either of the three? Was the building demolished or rebuilt before 1949?
 * It comes from the BC archives and is dated 1884 - but I luckily found a higher quality scan of the same photo while searching for that. -G
 * Now checks out. <b style="color:#7F007F">UndercoverClassicist</b> T·C 08:26, 9 July 2024 (UTC)


 * File:Orizaba (steamer), ca. 1870 - DPLA - f6bc15e12425d77df4073358a9ec8ab2 (cropped).jpg: checks out.
 * The alt text isn't of much use to most readers. In general, think about what the point of the image is: here, it's to give us an idea of what Carey looked like. The alt text should, therefore, do the same: give a brief physical description.
 * Ditto
 * Now much better. <b style="color:#7F007F">UndercoverClassicist</b> T·C 08:26, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Sourcing

 * The two Nesbitt sources don't appear to be cited in the article, leading to a Harvard error. Did you use them? If not, but you think they're of use to readers or future editors, they should be moved to a "Further reading" section (see MOS:LAYOUT).

Spot checks to follow once other matters are done. <b style="color:#7F007F">UndercoverClassicist</b> T·C 12:24, 8 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Most of these were pretty small changes so I didn't bother responding to each - I think I've gotten to everything! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 03:44, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Replies above: mostly sorted, a few things still to look at. Here we go with the spot checks:


 * Note 1 checks out. Hendrickson includes a couple of nice details -- that Cary was the oldest of ten children and that Cairns was his teacher as well as a pupil of his uncle's (both p. 114). Worth including?
 * Would advise addressing the repetition of . <b style="color:#7F007F">UndercoverClassicist</b> T·C 08:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I don't see any of the stuff about his election for the Legislative Assembly in the body text, though it's mentioned in the lead and infobox. There's a lot of good stuff here in Hendrickson, particularly about allegations of electoral malpractice towards Cary and an explanation of his later enmity with Amor de Cosmos. We should also at some point be clear that the Colonist was de Cosmos's paper, and this should also colour our handling of it as a source.
 * I still don't think I see the election? <b style="color:#7F007F">UndercoverClassicist</b> T·C 08:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Second paragraph of political career. 16:12, 15 July 2024 (UTC) Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 16:12, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Of course -- I think the chronology threw me a little, as we go from discussing his candidacy in the 1860 election (which presumably he announced in 1859?) to discussing events in 1859, giving the impression of moving backwards in time. I don't know if you could be more specific with the months in which things happened to smooth over this a little? <b style="color:#7F007F">UndercoverClassicist</b> T·C 17:42, 15 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Similarly, we're missing his little jaunt to the gold-fields -- we mention in the lead that he invested in them, but not that he went off there himself under false pretences of convalescence. A lot on this in both Hendrickson and Taylor.
 * The second half of Taylor is almost all unused: there's a lot of material here about dodgy business dealings, dubious press ethics and political dynamism. I'd also try to get in the Colonist's rather prickly judgemet: . At the moment, the paper looks rather more magnanimous in our article than it was.
 * Any reason not to include the "gentleman of integrity" quote? It really does colour what the Colonist thought of him (in brief, that he was a scoundrel). <b style="color:#7F007F">UndercoverClassicist</b> T·C 08:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Hmm? I did it include it at the end of the political career section. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 16:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * You did -- I'd not quite twigged that it was only a political obituary that included that line. <b style="color:#7F007F">UndercoverClassicist</b> T·C 17:43, 15 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Taylor doesn't actually say that the Gentleman's Magazine obit was favourable: it's entirely possible for an unfavourable obituary to have a grudgingly nice comment in it.
 * : Hendrickson has Farwell as Cary's relative. Taylor has "clerk", which isn't a secretary (it's a junior lawyer who acts as an assistant to a more senior one).
 * Worth mentioning the family connection? <b style="color:#7F007F">UndercoverClassicist</b> T·C 08:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)


 * The two Nesbitt sources should really go in date order.

I'll stop there for now to give you a chance to go over those -- GAs don't have to say everything about the subject, but they do need to cover the major aspects, and I think there's enough missing on his political and business career to raise a question-mark there. <b style="color:#7F007F">UndercoverClassicist</b> T·C 08:26, 9 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I think that I got to everything here! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:01, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Happy with most of that -- see above for remaining quibbles. As we had a couple of issues raised in the spot check, I'll do another batch in a little while. Once that and the above are sorted, we should hopefully be good to go. <b style="color:#7F007F">UndercoverClassicist</b> T·C 08:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I think that's everything? Apologies for the strange workflow here, lol Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 16:16, 16 July 2024 (UTC)