Talk:George Lazenby

Footnote on success as 007
A while ago I added a 600 byte footnote to point out that the meme of On Her Majesty's Secret Service being a flop, is pure myth. Someone has since expanded this footnote to 4 kB and it looks terrible. In fact in this footnote there is now more text -- about movie finance -- than there is bio information on Lazenby in the whole article. The effort is admirable, but this sort of detailed information doesn't really belong in a "footnote" in an article focussing on Lazenby's bio. It should be moved to a subsection of the On Her Majesty's Secret Service article itself, and perhaps referenced from here. -- Securiger 08:27 UTC, 3 October 2005

It should also be mentioned that he starred in one of the BBC's classic Play For Today series, The Operation, in 1973. Whatever Lazenby's shortcomings as an actor, at least this represented a proper dramatic role, as did Sean Connery's pre-Bond appearances on TV in Shakespeare and contemporary plays -- unlike Roger Moore, whose TV work consists entirely of escapist nonsense, most of it aimed at America anyway. Dolmance (talk) 20:15, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I thought the main problem with Lazenby was that the viewing public weren't ready at the time (1969) to accept anyone other than Sean Connery playing the role. IMO his was far from being the worst Bond.

Meltingpot (talk) 13:32, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree. He was far better than Brosnan. (92.12.16.106 (talk) 13:03, 2 March 2009 (UTC))

I have seen references (I don't remember where) that Lazenby comes closest to Fleming's conception of the character. Having seen IHMSS, I'm inclined to agree. Lazenby's laconic, rather bloodless performance indeed does mirror Bond as found in the novels.Alloco1 (talk) 01:45, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation
How is his last name pronounced? I thought it was like the "laz" in "Lazarus", but some media people (not necessarily the best source for pronunciations) are pronouncing it similarly to "laser". Hu 02:03, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Ask an Aussie. It is like "lay-zuhn-bee".  Always, 100%.  -   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  20:32, 14 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, as above, with the accent on the first syllable - "LAY-zun-bee".Chris Keating (talk) 00:45, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Contradiction
Clarification needed for this paradox:

"Lazenby's Hong Kong martial arts action films were very successful financially but without Lee the films did not have much commercial impact."

What is the difference between financial success and commercial impact? What in fact does "commercial impact" even mean, if it means something other than making lots of money? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.229.62.47 (talk) 01:10, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Birth date
I see that User:Nightscream has repeatedly removed addition of date and place of birth per WP:BLP and WP:V. This is indeed very prudent if it was about something more complicated or controversial, but I don't see the point of this deletion zeal in this case. For example, since when is IMDB considered a wholly unreliable about these things? I tried to do some searches, but couldn't find anything that could be deemed more reliable. But neither did I find any conflicting information. All sources seem to say the same thing: Queanbeyan, New South Wales, 5 September 1939.

I'm at a loss as to why this situation merits a rather one-sided revert war (and article protection). WP:BLP is intended to avoid damaging and controversial information from sneaking articles, and this is clearly neither damaging nor controversial. Peter Isotalo 21:47, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Unsourced/Badly Sourced Material
I moved the following passage here, as per the discussion on Jimmy Wales' Talk Page, until it can be better sourced. The only two sources it cites are another wiki, and imdb, neither of which Wikipedia considers reliable sources. Nightscream (talk) 15:50, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


 * He moved to England in 1964, when the Australian Army paid for him to study Mechanical Engineering at Durham University. Before becoming an actor, he worked as an auto mechanic, used car salesman, prestige car salesman, and as a male model, in London, England. In 1968, Lazenby was cast as James Bond, despite his only previous acting experience being in commercials, and his only film appearance being a bit-part in a 1965 Italian-made Bond spoof. Lazenby won the role based on a screen-test fight scene, the strength of his interviews, fight skills, and audition footage. A chance encounter with Bond series producer 'Cubby Broccoli' in a hair salon in 1966, in London, had given Lazenby his first shot at getting the role. Broccoli had made a mental note to remember Lazenby as a possible candidate at the time when he thought Lazenby looked like a Bond. The lengths Lazenby went to, to get the role included, spending his last pounds on acquiring a tailor-made suit from Sean Connery's tailor, which was originally made for Connery, along with purchasing a very Bondish-looking Rolex watch, and an Aston Martin DB5 car, the Bond car at the time. 


 * Any of the following sources acceptable?


 * http://www.klast.net/bond/lazenby.html
 * http://www.netglimse.com/celebs/pages/george_lazenby/index.shtml
 * http://www.mi6.co.uk/sections/bonds/lazenby.php3
 * http://www.tv.com/george-lazenby/person/3854/summary.html


 * What about printed biographies such as the 2008 Christmas bond album? Or printed records within the university?

SPACKlick (talk) 16:33, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Also Possibly consider removing some of the wilder less verifiable claims?


 * He moved to England in 1964, when the Australian Army paid for him to study Mechanical Engineering at Durham University. Before becoming an actor, he worked as an auto mechanic, car salesman and model. In 1968, Lazenby was cast as James Bond, despite his only previous acting experience being in commercials, and his only film appearance being a bit-part in a 1965 Italian-made Bond spoof, Espionage in Tangiers . Lazenby won the role based on a screen-test fight scene, the strength of his interviews, fight skills, and audition footage. 

SPACKlick (talk) 16:47, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

If the sources support all of the specific assertions in the passage in question, then sure, as long as those sources are explicitly included in the text, as per WP:CS. Nightscream (talk) 00:54, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * In the section Career-James Bond it says...
 * OHMSS also featured the only breaking of the "fourth wall" (the actor breaking the boundary between the setting and its audience) in the official EON-produced Bond series. (This also occurs in the unofficial film Never Say Never Again (1983) when Sean Connery winks to the audience). In the opening beach scene, just prior to introductory credits rolling, Lazenby cracks - in reference to Connery's Bond - "this never happened to the other fellow".[12]


 * It could be argued that in the film Octopussy; Vijay Amritraj's character playing a couple of bars of the James Bond theme on his snake charmer's flute constitues breaking of the 'fourth wall' and therefore the instant in OHMSS is not the 'only' such instance in EON Bond films. 94.2.185.247 (talk) 10:06, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

New messages go at the bottom of a section, not the top. As for breaking the fourth wall, that refers specifically to a character facing the camera and talking to the audience, not music. Nightscream (talk) 15:23, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Sorry about putting it at the top, haven't done this before. If we are saying only directly addressing the audience counts as breaking the fourth wall then the reference to Sean Connery winking at the audience in Never Say Never Again is incorrect. Also in the Wikipedia article for the film Octopussy it refers to the music scene I mentioned as breaking the fourth wall, so it would make that incorrect. 94.2.185.247 (talk) 21:35, 17 September 2010 (UTC)


 * No worries. And btw, Welcome to Wikipedia. :-)


 * As for the other references, if they do not have reliable sources to support them, then they shouldn't be there. Such material must be supported by reliable sources that are explicitly cited as inline citations. Original research is not permitted. If they don't have these sources, then they should be removed. Thanks for pointing that out. Nightscream (talk) 22:26, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Garlic
The article mentions a "garlic" incident between Lazenby and Diana Rigg, and mentions their claims that it was just a rumour, but doesn't give any details about what the incident actually (supposedly) was. Goodbye Galaxy 18:59, 19 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Goodbye Galaxy (talk • contribs)


 * I have seen references (I don't remember where) that Lazenby's portrayal of Bond is the closest to Fleming's conception in the novels. Having seen IHMSS, I'm inclined to agree.  Lazenby's bland, rather bloodless performance indeed is pretty close to Fleming's concepion.Alloco1 (talk) 01:35, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Fourth wall in OHMSS
This is wrong and has also been removed from OHMSS in this edit. The fact that some sources say it does not make it true. Lazenby is not looking at the camera and merely speaks the line to himself. Unfortunately, a myth has grown up around this, and Wikipedia should not be repeating it.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 04:40, 31 May 2011 (UTC)


 * At the end of the pre-title sequence, Bond watches the Contessa Teresa (Diana Rigg) drive off in her car, leaving him alone on the beach, and observes wryly while looking at the car: "This never happened to the other fellow" (screenshot). This is part of the logic of the scene, and Lazenby never looks directly at the camera. He gives no indication that he is aware of the existence of the audience, and behaves in character for a person who has just been left alone on a beach. It is a pity that some sources use the "fourth wall" phrase to describe this scene, as it is at best inaccurate and at worst wrong.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 08:35, 31 May 2011 (UTC)


 * In your opinion. I myself had no opinion on it, as I don't recall ever watching that scene, and have never seen that film (aside from a clip or two), but in looking at that screenshot, it actually looks like he is looking at the camera (in part because the camera is facing him), and is therefore in between him and the "car".


 * The bottom line is, it's in a source, so I have to ask: Does Lipp use the term "fourth wall" in his book? If so, is your insistence that he's wrong original research?


 * If the answer to both is "yes', can we not compromise by emphasizing the attributive nature of the passage--that is, by saying, "According to author Lipp, this constitutes the first time..."?


 * Also, I notice that the two citations for Lipp simply say, "Lipp 159" and "Lipp 161", and I don't see any other cite that has the full publication info. Where is it? Nightscream (talk) 20:18, 31 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately I've got no idea who Lipp is, as it was added by someone else and the page history is unhelpful. Lazenby does not look directly at the camera, or give any indication that he is aware of the presence of the audience in this scene. This would fail the generally accepted definition of breaking the fourth wall in both theatre and cinema. There are plenty of clear cut examples of actors doing this (usually in comedy films for effect), but this is not one of them. The real issue here is that the line "This never happened to the other fellow" is the most famous line of dialogue in the film, and should be in the article. The fourth wall claim is something of a red herring, what matters here is that Lazenby is comparing himself to his predecessor Connery.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 20:39, 31 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Again, whether he's looking into the camera or not is your opinion. In my opinion, he does appear to be looking at it. We do not, however, base the inclusion or exclusion of information on personal opinions or subjective interpretations, as this is original research, which is not permitted.


 * The appropriate avenue of investigation is to figure out what that source is, and whether perhaps a citation with the full publication information was added to the article and then deleted at a later date, leaving only those two secondary author-and-page-only as remnants. If we find the source, and it does say that, then the material should be restored, perhaps with an emphasis on its attribution, in order to underscore that it's coming from one person, even if he's considered a reliable source. That's the standard for the material's inclusion or exclusion, and not your personal opinion or mine.


 * The page history is indeed helpful, as a search that took just a couple of minutes shows that those references were added without any fuller reference by User:TMC1982 on in June 18, 2009, as seen here. I've left a message on his talk page asking him about this. If he can't provide more information as to that publication, then it should be removed entirely. If he can, we may be able to examine its contents further to gauge whether it passes WP:IRS and WP:V. Nightscream (talk) 00:01, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Lipp may be Deborah Lipp in "The Ultimate James Bond Fan Book" . The edit summary at which talks about a subtle effect is closest to the truth. Lazenby delivers a remark which can be interpreted as a reference to Connery in this scene, but does not look into the camera or step out of the film world that he inhabits on the beach after the fight. This is a clear example of an allusion in the script, but does not fit the bill for breaking the fourth wall. There is a video of the pre-title sequence here. Sean Connery does break the fourth wall by winking at the camera in Never Say Never Again (screenshot), this may be where the confusion has arisen.-- ♦Ian Ma c  M♦  (talk to me) 04:28, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Lazenby's line is similar to Jack Sparrow's line in Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides‎: "Did everyone see that? Because I will NOT be doing it again!" This could be seen as addressing the audience, but Sparrow does not look at the camera and allows the audience to see the joke.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 15:32, 5 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I always assumed that the line referred to Prince Charming in the story Cinderella. In this screenshot Lazenby holds Rigg's slipper-like footwear. Therefore Lazenby isn't really breaking the fourth wall. - Fanthrillers (talk) 23:11, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Place of birth
Is it Goulburn or Queanbeyan? Tarskov (talk) 15:42, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The sources cited in the Early life section indicate he was born in Goulburn, and moved to Queanbeyan in his teens. Nightscream (talk) 16:03, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Espionage in Tangiers
In his public speaking appearances Mr Lazenby is emphatic that OHMSS was his first motion picture experience. What evidence besides some IMDB comments link him to that film?Foofbun (talk) 05:34, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * There is no evidence that Lazenby appeared in this film. This is not to say that he didn't appear in the film, but as our duty is to provide only reliably sourced facts, I agree with your decision to remove this film from his list of credits. - Fanthrillers (talk) 23:03, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Twitter account?
Is this twitter account for real? [twitter.com/georgelazenby] Can someone authenticate the Twitter account georgelazenby Mang (talk) 04:23, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Ashton Kutcher has a verified profile on Twitter. The blue tick mark next to his name means that he has provided the site with additional information showing that he is the real deal and not an impostor. Neither of the accounts https://twitter.com/georgelazenby or https://twitter.com/GeorgeLazenby00 have this, and they do not look like the real deal for the Bond actor.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 10:52, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Wives and children
I correct a few factual errors in the article. It seems Nightscream missed those despite his numerous edits to the article. Oddly they reverted me, but didn't actually supply references for their versions (AWW is there, but contradicts the spelling in the article and the infobox). In any case, I added citation needed to statements that seem incorrect. Agt.007 (talk) 17:49, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Blacklisted???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Q9OFx2nEw

Lazenby stated that in this talk radio interview from Australia he stated that he was black listed, with two exceptions, for years after OHMSSS.

The reasons were: he had Rohnan O'Rhailly as an agent. He refused to sign a contract. He wore hippie type clothes, wore his hair long and raised a beard. ..

Should this be stated in the article???

Contemporaneous interview from that period: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8YJ4V4xqpUUser:JCHeverly 18:38, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Durham university source
Sourced text was removed by IP, the source itself is quite vague so here are some others Student Newspaper tvguide.com Durham Times referring to a guide book which also makes the claim. Same paper, different article, same guide book

I'm sure there are some more in print at the university itself. SPACKlick (talk) 14:27, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

The above sources are just student journalists copying stuff from Wikipedia (it was added to the college wikipedia page by an IP in 2010 and has been snowballing 2nd-hand sources since then). October 1968 to May 1969 he was filming OHMSS. In the 1969-1970 academic year he was described as preferring life as a car salesman and wanting to go to Los Angeles to look for roles http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/107908281 about to star in a Western http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/131680428, going on TV shows with the Beatles on 7 February 1970 in London. In the 1970-1971 he made universal soldier. So at what point are we saying this hippy actor decided to study Drama at a Church of England Teacher Training college then? It's also worth mentioning that the same college's Wikipedians also claim Roger Moore studied there, even though that was denied by Moore himself. Wouldn't it have been written about at the time if it was actually true? 88.212.36.193 (talk) 13:16, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 16:01, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

'Leaving Bond' section
This section is looking really bad. It feels like an endless series of quotes. It also lacks a reference to one of the most compelling reasons Lazenby has cited over the years for his departure from the series, the changing attitudes he saw in 60s counterculture which he thought would make Bond obsolete. As he told The Guardian: "I had advice that James Bond was over anyway. ...Being in the 60s, it was love, not war. You know, hippy time".

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Volkswagen brochure
I don't understand why this picture is here... it was "used by" Lazenby? I'm suspecting this is a joke or vandalism, but I apologize if I'm wrong. PurpleChez (talk) 15:40, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Fourth wall, again
,, A belated comment: The above discussion (s) refer to Lazenby’s line "this never happened to the other fellow" as not breaking the fourth wall, because he wasn’t looking directly at the camera. Just to clarify, breaking the fourth wall can be done through 'directly referring to the audience, the play as a play, or the characters' fictionality'. The line is a reference to Connery in the role of Bond, so it is a reference to the character’s fictionality, is it not? Swanny18 (talk) 08:58, 17 September 2021 (UTC)


 * It's a tongue in cheek comment and is probably intended as a reference to Connery, but it would have been too jokey to have Lazenby looking directly at the camera while saying it.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 10:01, 17 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Wiktionary > in-joke, inside joke, private joke. Cinema is littered with this kind of virtual intimacy. An audience by its very existence is in entrapment and on here this kind-of "notes being passed under the table" is a professional subterfuge towards drawing the audience into communication. The remark in discussion creates an understood link to the newness of the present actor in the continuing cinematic enterprise. The breach of the fourth wall is more a brazen display of your cards if not an actor's eyeballs. --Laurencebeck (talk) 12:20, 17 September 2021 (UTC)


 * It is indeed an example of a reference, in-joke, metafiction/metareference, etc., but is not a breaking of the fourth wall. Breaking the fourth wall is a specific practice in which the actor looks directly into the camera and addresses the audience. Nightscream (talk) 17:12, 17 September 2021 (UTC)