Talk:George Martin/Archive 1

Photo Changed...
The main picture of George Martin has been switched to a picture of the "Love" Circ de Solei...
 * Hm, it's back to normal.


 * Dunno if is it here the right local, but I changed the title of George Martin, since he is a CBE he couldnt have a Sir before his name. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.96.149.154 (talk) 00:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC).

Misc
Wasn't it George Martin who once defined 4 (?) rules of how to make a hit?

Parents? Childhood? Schools and colleges? Bastie 19:58, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I think The Disney Channel had a special with George Martin on how he recorded Magical Mystery tour-it was fasinating. Does anyone know if that special is available anywhere?


 * I don't know about any four rules... but the parents, childhood, et al. can be found in All You Need is Ears. The Disney Channel aired both Magical Mystery Tour and a special about the making of Sgt. Pepper in the mid-1990s; possibly you're confusing the two? I don't think the Sgt. Pepper special was issued commercially, but I'm sure somebody out there taped it. Zephyrad 18:03, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Air studios
Any chance that some knowledgeable person could add a para on this?


 * I do know AIR's Montserrat studios were destroyed when the supposedly-dead volcano decided to erupt. I believe they got the tapes out, but had to leave the equipment. Have to check on this. All You Need is Ears discusses AIR and its London studio - and one hard test a client put them through, to make sure the place would be quiet enough. Zephyrad 18:09, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * AIR Montserrat was badly damaged by Hurricane Hugo in 1989 and had to close. The AIR Studios website includes a history page. GTGleeson 22:17, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Photo
We need a larger photo of Sir George. I tried to make his portrait larger and the coat of arms smaller, since it looks odd for the latter to be bigger than the former, but the portrait is so small it's at top resolution already. Presumably Mediawiki won't stretch images because increasing the px value for the portrait didn't work. --kingboyk 19:47, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Why Billboard?
Is the quoting of American Billboard Hot 100 chart placings really appropriate for this British producer of predominantly British hit artists? For example, "From Me To You" is notable for being the Beatles' first undisputed number 1 hit in Britain - the fact that it eventually got to number 41 in the US chart, almost a year after it was originally released, is surely of very little relevance. 217.155.20.163 00:48, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Billboard is most appropriate. The Billbaord Hot 100 has long been the standard in the music industry. The fact that Martin is British is irrelevant. I compliled that list because he is a record producer, and wished to have an accurate list of the hit records (by definition, records that have hit the Billboard Hot 100) that he has produced. -The creator


 * Sorry, but that's a very US-centric perspective, and I suspect that most British music fans would beg to differ with you on this issue. The Billboard Hot 100 may be an industry standard in the USA but it is not the only one in the world. It may surprise you to learn that there are many countries outside the USA which have their own industry-standard singles charts.


 * The key point here is not just that Martin is British, but that he ran a British record label, and that he produced records by predominantly British artists which charted primarily in Britain. Quoting a chart from a foreign market - even the most significant foreign market - offers a hugely distorted perspective of his career, especially given that he had little say over which of his artists were promoted there or how their material was packaged (something he is understandably bitter about even today).


 * I've already pointed out the folly of listing the Beatles' "From Me To You" as a minor US hit without even mentioning that it was their first undisputed number one hit in their native land. A similar thing could be said of Cilla Black's rendition of "Anyone Who Had a Heart" - this was not only a number one hit, and her breakthrough single, it became (and remains) the biggest-selling single by any female artist in the history of the British record industry. However, it didn't chart in the USA, so doesn't count as a "hit" on your list.


 * Please don't think I'm bagging you for compiling the list, I'm sure many people would find it useful for what it is. It might be appropriate for inclusion in a US-specific article about Martin, but it just isn't an accurate representation of Martin's career as a whole. The same argument would apply if British chart placings were the only ones given in articles about, say, Berry Gordy and Motown. 217.155.20.163 20:33, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Please feel free to move it to a page of its own. Or make another list of his British hits. This list was designed to be an American list. I am American, and cannot apologize for my sometimes exrtreme nativism. Also it was a listing of HOT 100 hits, not Country, or Adult Contemporary.

AIR
Just wondering if it is worth expanding on Martin’s reasons for establishing AIR. In 1963 alone, his productions were placed at No. 1 for 37 weeks, but EMI didn’t even give him a Christmas bonus (according to Bill Harry.) He apparently suggested a commission, but again, EMI dragged their heals. So he left with fellow colleagues Ron Richards, John Burgess and Peter Sullivan and set up Associated Independent Recording. EMI then had to hire him on his terms to carry on producing. What do you think, shall I put that in?--Patthedog 10:26, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * If you haven't already, you should (with those referencey thingys, of course :) egde 18:37, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

KBE vs. CBE
I don't know much about British titles, etc. What I believe is the case:
 * George was made a Commander of the British Empire (CBE) in 1988.
 * George was made a Knight Commander (KBE) in 1996, and that is why his formal title is Sir George Martin.

Does anyone have cites for this stuff? Let's get the article right, and cited! John Cardinal 13:06, 10 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Sir George Martin CBE egde 17:33, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I was hoping to find an official (UK gov) web site where there was a list. Evidently, the London Gazette is the official publisher of honours-related notices, but I didn't find Sir George Martin in their archives. Evidently, their online records only go back to 1998. In any case, if he is Sir George Martin, then by my understanding he must be a KBE, but given my "on the wrong side of the pond" status, anything I say/write about this is probably wrong! John Cardinal 18:08, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe "Knights of the Realm"? I will have a look, as soon as Mimi, Cynthia and Astrid are over (or maybe sooner... :) egde 18:32, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Nah, that was no good. Maybe? egde 18:35, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I didn't find an official list on http://www.honours.gov.uk. There MUST be an official list, but I am starting to fear that it may not be online. John Cardinal 21:57, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

List of songs
Will the long list of songs Martin produced be seen as too much? It only has chart positions in for the UK, or maybe America - who knows? egde 11:17, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it would be too much. He produced a few hundred with the Beatles, and he was very active with other groups in the 60s and 70s, so the list of all the songs he produced could possibly have a thousand entries. The current "hit records" section is pretty long and clearly that's a small subset of his entire catalog. John Cardinal 21:56, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * What to do with it? Chop? egde 17:22, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I have just spotted this: "Nick Teen and Al K. Hall,” Rolf Harris (9/28/63, #95)" 95 on the charts? If that was a hit my name's "Bugger me with a rigid stick". egde 20:05, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I think I cleaned up the list a bit a while back, but it's not my work originally. It looks like "hit" = "charted". I am OK with leaving it as is, or we could reduce it a bit by choosing a higher threshold, say #50? My vote would be to leave as is. I could make it two columns so it uses less vertical space but retains all the content... &mdash; John Cardinal 23:32, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The official version of a "hit" is a top twenty placing. All the individual Beatles' hits could be taken out. Plus: are they USA placings or UK? egde 00:15, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Hit records
The hit records section looks lame now! It needs a summary of the Beatles hits (band and solo) produced by Martin; as it stands now, there are only two #1 hits on the list. &mdash; John Cardinal 05:22, 28 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe it should be prefaced with a short description about how many #1s the Fabs had with Martin, and a line about his work with Macca. egde 12:43, 28 May 2007 (UTC)


 * It now has links to The Beatles' albums page and McCartney's. --andreasegde 16:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

GA
I have nominated it for GA. --andreasegde 11:49, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I've given the article a brief copy-edit. Generally seems good, but is it normal to list discography as a producer? Does the article *need* four fair-use images? Gimmetrow 16:15, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I have taken a photo out and replaced it with 2 photos from Commons.
 * Not sure about the list, but I have just looked at these these: David Briggs, Rick Rubin Nigel Godrich, Norman Whitfield, and Nile Rodgers, who all have lists (some quite long). The lists in this article have been chopped down quite a bit. --andreasegde 08:59, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, I was just wondering about the list; I probably have not previously read a producer bio. Prose is decent and sources appear acceptable (not entirely from autobiography). If you take this to FA, you may find editors doubtful about the remaining fair use images. Gimmetrow 00:31, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for reviewing it, Gimmetrow. I won't be the one to take it to FA but others are more than welcome. Thanks again. --andreasegde 08:18, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

First marriage
The article doesn't say how the first marriage ended. Apepper 16:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC)


 * If you can find out (from anywhere) it would be good to know. He has probably never talked about it. Would you? :) --andreasegde 22:25, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Pre-Beatles hit with Dick James
ISTR that George Martin's biggest pre-Beatles hit was the Robin Hood theme sung by Dick James, once I find the citation I'll add the reference. Apepper 16:39, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Early work changes
I've changed the description of his work with Flanders & Swann from Arranger to Producer; Martin was recording an existing review, he didn't do any arrangement.

I've also added Alan Bennett to the Beyond the Fringe list.

Apepper 16:41, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Possible additions...
There are a couple of additions I can think of:

ISTR that in 1964 George Martin productions were number one for 37 weeks out of 52 weeks. It would be hard work to prove, but I imagine that's some kind of record.

The circumstances leading to GM leaving EMI to form AIR aren't discussed; after his 37 weeks at number one he received a memo explaining from EMI explaining that he wouldn't be receiving a bonus that year.

I'll try and look up the citations over the weekend... Apepper 16:54, 5 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It is mentioned: "Martin suggested to EMI (after the release of From Me to You) that the royalty rate should be doubled without asking for anything in return, which led to Martin being thought of as a "traitor in EMI".[22], and "Within the recording industry, Martin is noted for going independent at a time when many producers were still salaried staff—which he was until the Beatles' success gave him the leverage to start, in 1965, Associated Independent Recording, and hire out his own services to artists who requested him." --andreasegde 22:26, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Paul Winter Consort's Icarus (1972)
This album has its die-hard fans in the jazz world. Martin's influence was seminal on the band's style. Its success gave impetus to four of the participating musicians who left and formed Oregon (music). The album's title song has become Paul Winter's theme song. At the time it came out, Martin said it was "the finest album I've ever made." Let's not delete the album from the list again. Binksternet 18:41, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The discography is a selected discography; you can't put everything in. "Die-hard fans in the jazz world" is POV without a reference. Why is Martin not mentioned on Paul Winter Consort's page? Put it in... --andreasegde 22:20, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Selected discography, fine. Selected by who and for what reasons? Binksternet 23:15, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Sir Martin is included on the Paul Winter page. I might add him to the Consort page; it would happen sooner if I were more familiar with the process of recording of the Icarus album where Winter says Martin taught him "how to use the studio as a tool".  Binksternet 23:15, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * A quote like that above (with a reference/page number etc.) is great stuff to put in. Go for it. --andreasegde 16:53, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Paul Winter (with quote) is now in. These little bits of information (with references, natch) are great stuff. --andreasegde 17:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Image
The picture of George Martin formerly used by the article has been deleted by the WP fair use police. They claim that even though no reasonable substitute is known to exist, Martin is alive and so it's theoretically possible for someone to take a photograph of him and put it in the public domain. It's also theoretically possible for Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa to be alive. John Cardinal (talk) 04:43, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * LOL, I thought they were..... BTW, any photos in infoboxes should be moved into the article. That stops them being deleted (I hope...) --andreasegde (talk) 12:15, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The Goons
There seems to be a sizeable chunk missing with regard to Martin's involvement with virtually all of the released music of The Goons such as the "Ying Tong Song" and "Walking Backwards For Christmas" etc. -- Web H amster  21:44, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Will it be about Martin, or the Goons? --andreasegde (talk) 02:58, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Both wouldn't you have thought? With a different angle depending on which article. -- Web H amster  04:42, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


 * If you have a reference, then put it in. --andreasegde (talk) 12:13, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Photo
Surely it must be possible to give the man his own photo? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.31.164.67 (talk) 22:47, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * It's with his son. Do you have one that you can upload to Commons?--andreasegde (talk) 18:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 14:50, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Would like to take to another PR then FA
I would really like to take George Martin to a PR and then FA, but he's not on the Beatles list. Just don't want to step on toes before I start so thought I'd ask who'd like to help.--DizFreak talk Contributions 20:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * He is on the list, and you are very welcome to take him up to FA. Very, very welcome indeed. :)--andreasegde (talk) 10:18, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I meant the adopt an article list. I should be more clear. I'm going to prep this for a PR then and try to prep it for FADizFreak talk Contributions 16:04, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Good for you - go for it. :)--andreasegde (talk) 05:27, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Albums produced
Because I'm lazy and don't want to get out my Beatles box set and count them all...how many of the original Beatles albums did George produce (the only one that comes to mind that he didn't was the original Let It Be.)DizFreak talk Contributions 20:01, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Never Mind, I just put "producer and co-producer". DizFreak talk Contributions 21:05, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Let It Be has a complicated history; originally Martin was (obviously) planned to produce the LP, but the material was (to the Beatles minds) of too poor quality to release, Glynn Johns was given the job of trying to make a releasable product, but his version was rejected, Lennon & Harrison then approached Phil Spector who actually produced the released album. However, Spector wasn't present for the Beatles performances. To my count, Martin produced 10 Beatles albums - not counting Yellow Submarine, the anthologies and past masters:

Please, Please Me, With the Beatles, Beatles for Sale, Help, Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt Pepper, The Beatles (White Album), Abbey Road, Live at Hollywood Bowl.

Apepper (talk) 09:36, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Instruments
The box on the side of the article that includes his picture and some facts about him is missing some things. Where it says "instruments", it is missing a few that he knew how to play. George Martin also knew how to play the cello. He played it in the Beatles song, "Strawberry Fields Forever". He knew how to play the glockenspiel, and played it in the Beatles song, "Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite!" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snowconeboy789 (talk • contribs) 18:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC)