Talk:George Michael/Archive 1

Consistent Vandalism
Can I suggest that this topic be locked so that all entries can be moderated by editorial parties before being posted? Once the kids see that it's not a source of immediate giggles they will leave to do other pointless things, I am sure...

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.69.138.8 (talk) 17:03, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

Composing
1. Which instruments is George Michael able to play?

2. Is he completely composing by himself?

3. Producers, arrangers, musicians ... he played with

These are some great questions, and I'd be more than happy to do some research and relay the information into the article. --Aelange 00:18, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

1. He's able to play the keys, as well as bass and drums; he's also contributed guitar parts to a lot of his recordings.

2. He's composing the majority of his songs alone, with the exception of one or two songs per album, where he's working with some of his standard collaborators (i.e. Jon Douglas, David Austin, etc.). It's important to note that almost all of his greatest hits (e.g. Freedom! '90, Faith, Father Figure, Jesus To A Child, Outside etc.) are written solely by him.

3. He produced and arranged Faith and Listen Witout Prejudice by himself. In Older and Patience he did the same, with some exceptions (most notably in Patience, where for the first time made an extensive use of sampling). He has also worked with Babyface in "As", while his "Songs from the Last Century" covers' album was jointly produced by him and Phil Ramone.--Alexchondros 13:50, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Lewd Act
Police refused to elaborate on the alleged "lewd act", but implicitly said that the officer saw him masturbating and/or saw his erect penis and/or was proposed to carry out sexual activities together on the premises.

I've removed this. How do you "implicitly say" something? As far as I gathered, they were very careful not to say what the act was. Can you provide a reference for anything more definite? A quotation, perhaps? Obviously we all have some idea of what they meant by a "lewd act", but we can't put our own ideas into the article. -- Oliver P. 22:52 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * Ah, thanks for adding that quote, Patrick. That clarifies things a bit. -- Oliver P. 23:23 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)

80 or 110?!
Is he responsible for 80 million albums or 110 millon albums sold?

[]

Here, it says that George Michael sold 80 million... With respect, Deliogul 20:18, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Chinese Link
Something's wrong with this Chinese link, i've tried many times, but it didnt work. I guess it's the fault of the Unicode system? --Gboy 17:28 24 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * Interesting. the article is here; you can see a link to it from here


 * oh it works now, i don't know what's wrong? --Gboy 17:39 24 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * I changed it twice. The second time I pasted in the end of its address from the location bar instead of the actual characters.  I don't know why that worked and the other didn't (and the unicode also didn't).  Koyaanis Qatsi 17:42 24 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * yeah, i did the same in Tennessee Williams, which has the same problem...., hey, r u Chinese, or how can u type Chinese characters? --Gboy 17:46 24 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * I searched for the page at the site, went to it and then to "what links here," then copied the link. Koyaanis Qatsi


 * Really? i didn't know u can find cross-language link there?! --Gboy 17:53 24 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * It was in English on one of the pages. Koyaanis Qatsi


 * Anyway, it works now. thank u for ur help. I am just taking part in writing gay-related topics, hope that's not the discrimination against me doing that! lOl --Gboy 18:01 24 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * Not a problem. Have fun.  Koyaanis Qatsi

Law suit
The article said
 * Rodriguez, the police officer, claimed that this video "mocked" him, and also that Michael had slandered him in interviews, and in 1999 filed a ten million dollar lawsuit against the singer. It was originally dismissed by a court in California on the grounds that public officials such as police officers were not entitled to sue, but this decision was overruled by an appeals court on 2002 December 3.

IANALB this is so unlikely to be accurate that i am changing it without getting the details straight. Rule of thumb: anybody is entitled to sue anyone for anything; the only question is whether they are entitled to win the remedy they sue for. (The exceptions are fascinating but irrelevant.) The details may or may not be of interest (e.g. was the mocking called slanderous, or were the mocking and slander presented as separate torts, or was one mentioned only to provide context?), but i'm converting it to a vague but true version. --Jerzy(t) 18:58, 2004 Mar 30 (UTC)

It's a matter of semantics really. Such people as those working for Madonna sign contracts that give up various rights, one of which is the right to sue Madonna on various grounds. Now if they do it and the judge or jury rules in their favor, then they are entitled to sue by virtue of winning the suit. If the contract is ruled as valid, then in essence they were not entitled to seek damages (or "sue" as we put it). So it really is not an improper usage, it's just that "sue" is too vague of a word for the intent.--Tednor 11:21, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Photograph
My goodness, where did that ghastly photo come from? Are there no better photos out there? --timc | Talk 18:05, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * The caption was so punny. Anyway, I'll scan my DVD cover and put that picture there. The grimace should not be there. Mike H 01:22, Nov 30, 2004 (UTC)

"Kerry Kahill"
That was old vandalism, incompletely reverted, (205.244.100.170 | talk | contributions) -- Curps 02:49, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Couple of questions
What were the minimum contractual obligations he had towards Sony? And I thought his contract was bought out by another record company.

"Bought out" is far too simplistic. As part of the settlement, he was allowed to start recording for the other company provided he pay Sony a sum of money. Chances are he got this sum of money from the new record company, but since we don't have a copy of his contract, who knows?--Tednor 11:24, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

"An appeals court reinstated the case on 3 December 2002" Does anyone know what happened what that case? I always thought the policeman lost. Garion96 14:21, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

George Michael and Counter-Strike:Source
I am uncertain as to why this information is included in this article. First, it is reported as a vicious rumor-hardly worthy of inclusion on that basis alone. Secondly, even if true and verifiable, how is this relevant. Unless, there is some justification for this, I shall remove this information. Franklin Moore 19:59, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Bare: The authorized biography
There is no mention of the authorized biography which was written by Tony Parsons and released in 1991. Can someone please add that? Bare @Amazon UK

Freedom '90 or Freedom '92?
I know this sounds strange, but I remember this song was constantly played on the radio (Y-100 to be specific) in South Florida in the years 1992-1993. Because of this, I always thought this song was from that year, but was surprised to learn it was from much earlier - 1990. Is it possible it wasn't released in the US until 1992? Davez621 15:11, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Freedom 90 was definitely released to the states in 1990. Billboard is a source.

I Want Your Sex
Why is there no mention in this article about the controversies surrounding Georgie's "I Want Your Sex" video & song? It was banned by many radio stations in North America. Surely this deserves to be covered in this article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.106.21.230 (talk • contribs). 14:46, 2 June 2006

I am certain that "I want your sex" was dubbed so that he was saying only "I want your love", but have no sources. I remember clear as day this version being "auditioned" on radio numerous times before they finally released it the right way (as "I want your sex"). Can anyone clear this up?--Tednor 11:27, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

gas ovens?
''Michael's lover of two years Anselmo Feleppa died of an AIDS-related brain haemorrhage in 1993. The death plunged Michael into clinical depression, which can reasonably be at least partially attributable to some irresponsible acts. His mother died soon after seeing her father and brother's heads in gas ovens, according to a Guardian interview.''

Uh, what? I don't know anything about George Michael, i was just reading out of curiosity, but this sounds pretty weird to me. Either it's vandalism or it's just really poorly written. Someone should, you know, probably explain what her father's and brother's heads were doing in gas ovens.

--Lav-chan 20:19, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

HAMPSTEAD HEATH INCIDENT
I have deleted the following from the article

"Many residents of Hampstead and its park-goers regularly witness full sexual encounters in public view in broad daylight. Most disturbing is the sex litter left behind, including used condoms, discarded lubricant packets and soiled tissues"

as this is not mentioned in the BBC interview and also it just an opinion which is actually false

cheekychops

If it can be sourced to statements made by neighborhood residents it is totally fair, but that's IF a source is provided (as the it is the residents opinion that is being sourced, all that's needed is a quote to make it legitimate. that's my tuppence.
 * True or not, it has nothing to do with George Michael, and so is improper. 67.40.16.38 19:56, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Greek: A little pretentious, yes?
I think the Γιώργος-Κυριάκος Παναγιώτου reference as his "birth name" in the info box is a little pretentious given that he was born in London and lived his entire life in the UK. Surely his birth certificate is in English... and his name is certainly transliterated from birth. This sets a silly precedent: Kirk Douglas was born in Amsterdam, New York... there's no reason to write his birth name in Belarusian just because his parents emigrated from there. I'm removing it.... somebody scream if I'm wrong. Iamvered 20:14, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. But it is still there. --133.62.200.220 10:14, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I guess I agree with you there, but the text is so BEAUTIFUL, I'm gonna head over to the Greek Language section.

You're being racist.
 * Eh? Why? --133.62.200.220 10:14, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

"Publicity, notoriety, & depression" to Personal Life section
Much as a group of us did on the Elton John article, I have removed the rather depressing and confusing section called "Publicity, notoriety, & depression" and created a new section called "Personal life", which I have sectioned as the content would allow. I have also started to change the refrences over to a better format. Rgds, - Trident13 09:22, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Cathal Roache or Kenny Ross?
He is apparently going out with both of them according to the article!Damiancorrigan 13:33, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

PRAYING FOR TIME (1990)
Hi. I first heard of this song which cannot be described in words on German former TV program 'VIVA II', and I was electrified. A video which is almost completely black, but there IS something going on in the background, but you must absolutely concentrate to perceive anything. And this LYRICS! If there was a Nobel Prize for lyrics, this might be a possible candidate. WHAT A MAGNIFICENT SONG!!! Don't you think it should be mentioned? -andy 80.129.122.124 22:39, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I know this is an old post, but it seemed a nice tidy spot to say this. The paragraph describing "Listen Without Prejudice Vol. 1" contradicts the article "Praying for Time". There definitely was a video for this song.--Eddylyons (talk) 20:44, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Jewish
This source has been removed a few times by an anon. I do agree this source is not really reliable. A reporter from Jewtastic, a blog, has said that George Michael has said. "You've got that wrong guy, Andrew is not Jewish, I'm Jewish".

Regarding the external links, see External links. In casu, fan sites and forums. Garion96 (talk) 21:11, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you saying that the reporter lied? Mad Jack 22:31, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily, I just would like some other sources than hearsay from a blog. Garion96 (talk) 22:36, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but the statement was repeated in a reputable online newspaper that certainly passes WP:RS, so we can assume that they have checked it.--Runcorn 22:56, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The way they put it in the article ("Bunder reports Michael as having said"), it doesn't look to me like they checked. I also haven't found other sources concerning this. Also, any comments regarding the fansites/forums? Garion96 (talk) 23:08, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The question appears to be - is Bunder a reliable source? This gives out some info on him, and he appears to be so. WP:EL helps answer most link questions. I know that we're allowed one good fansite or so, so I would keep the best one and probably junk the others. Mad Jack 23:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I still prefer a better source, but I don't mind it that much. At least now we can point the anon (multiple ip's so no point in leaving a message) to this talk page section. Garion96 (talk) 23:27, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I would agree with Garion96's conclusion. For exceptional claims we need exceptional evidence. There are plenty of places that say George Michael's father is Cypriot and mother English, but why is it that only blogger Leslie Bunder knows and reports (on his blog) that George Michael's mother is Jewish? If Michael was so open about it like Bunder suggests then there is no reason this should be so underreported. Even Bunder writes about it as if it is surprising and generally unknown information. Finally, the question of whether Leslie Bunder is a reliable source apparently doesn't take bias into account. His primary occupation is after all, Jewish-interest sites. My take on this would be wait for this information to be backed up by other places before jumping on the bandwagon. Usedup 02:00, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I was never really convinced so to use this source, so I agree, remove it until (or if) there is a better source available. Garion96 (talk) 18:50, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I strongly disagree. Why is it an exceptional claim that needs exceptional evidence?--Runcorn 19:00, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Exceptional claims are "Surprising [or apparently important] claims that are not widely known." It is widely known that, for example, comedian Jerry Seinfeld is Jewish and finding a biography that mentions this isn't hard. However, the opposite is true for George Michael. To most people, it is a surprising fact that George Michael would be Jewish or even part-Jewish. Aside from blogger Leslie Bunder there doesn't seem to be another place that mentions George Michael's Jewish (or his mother is Jewish) but there are plenty of places that say he is half-Greek, half-English(British). There is a statement of the like straight from George Michael's mouth here: . And yet, here's a reliable source that says BOTH his parents are Greeks: . According to some logic presented here, since a reliable source says something it must be taken as fact and recorded. So, realistically, a user could now change "born to a Greek-Cypriot father and English-Jewish mother" to "born of Greek-Cypriot parents" using the source above and then revert any attempt to change this with the excuse "please do not remove referenced material" (the most popular excuse lately). That's the ultimate flaw with this notion of simply looking for a source to say something you want it to say. The truth is there probably is a reliable source for every boundary case on someone or something, but this doesn't mean it is always accurate.
 * Someone above sniped "Are you saying the reporter lied?" and the answer to that question is "No, but it is entirely possible he did" or, more likely, he misunderstood what George Michael was saying - nobody knows why and the question of why isn't important. Finally, if George Michael having a Jewish mother is true and relevant then there should be no reason more places wouldn't pick up this information, double check it, and report it. In which case, there's no problem with including it. However, one blogger won't work as exceptional evidence. Usedup 00:26, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I've added a quotation from an interview with a leading Spanish newspaper where he explicitly describes his mother as Jewish.--Newport 17:25, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Should there be any problem if i mention it with a reliable source? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.68.232.211 (talk) 18:51, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The LA Times article says:"'His maternal grandmother was Jewish but married a Gentile and raised her children with no knowledge of their Semitic heritage. This was during World War II, and 'she thought if they didn't know that their mother was Jewish, they wouldn't be at risk,' Michael said. His mother was sent to convent school, effectively obliterating any traces of his grandmother's faith.'"Given that, the text in the article ("of Jewish descent") would seem to suggest stronger ties to the faith than actually exist. --Ckatz chat spy  19:02, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

It's got nothing to do with faith, but only ethnicity.And still it's not as though i catagorised him as jewish.(talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 19:16, 25 November 2008 (UTC).

I agree with Ckatz...his mother's faith is irrelevant. You normally don't see other stars labeled as Christians or Buddhists, unless that faith plays a major role in their life. I recommend you stop adding this in because we will continue to remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.56.66 (talk) 17:17, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

I think you are not aware of the fact that Jewish is an ethnicity and Judaism is a faith(and so do i write "of Jewish descent" and not"of the Jewish faith") so that there is no difference between mentioning that and his fathers Greek-Cypriot background, and no, i didn't even once lable him as Jewish by not writing it down or categorize him as "Jewish". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.68.191.198 (talk) 18:46, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

His mother's faith is irrelevant. She is of English descent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marc Harris (talk • contribs) 19:25, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Read my comment from above. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.139.109.130 (talk • contribs) 21:12, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

George Michael is JEWISH! End of discussion! You are being anti-semitic if you don't let us mention it... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.101.165.117 (talk • contribs) 14:21, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

He is not Jewish as he is of Jewish descent on his mothers side, and don't see why it should not be mentioned if his fathers Greek-Cypriot backround is mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.0.160.199 (talk • contribs) 15:27, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Nice try with the anti-semetic...but it wont work here. GM is not Jewish and his mother is English, his father is Greek. Simple. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marc Harris (talk • contribs) 16:04, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

No one actually said he is(jewish) or catagorized him with that, but just left a minor mention of his mother's backround with a reliable third side source, and yes, his mother is English by her nationality, but is of jewish descent so that it seems you are taking things totally out of their context. The mention of his mothers jewish roots, just like the mention of his fathers greek nationality is rellevant to the describe of his foreign backround. What i would like from the people who keep deleting the information is to take more part in this discussion, because on one side you tell us to wait until a consensus is been reached, but on the other side you hardly take part in the discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.250.243.186 (talk • contribs) 15:44, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * To be perfectly honest, it is rather frustrating trying to discuss this with you, because you continue to restore the text over, and over, and over again. In fact, that appears to be all you are doing on Wikipedia. --Ckatz chat spy  17:26, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I do also other things, but forget about it. What we need to do is to try and find a salution to the matter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.250.243.186 (talk • contribs) 18:06, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

The claim this his maternal grandmother was Jewish is soundly sourced. Please leave it in or give a good reason for deleting it. Viewfinder (talk) 19:54, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Viewfinder, I agree with you that the claim of his maternal grandmother is soundly sourced, but other editors (CKatz) and myself see that it is irrelevant to the article. GM never claimed to be Jewish nor has he ever claimed that the faith or identity has ever played any part of his life. For this reason it is irrelevant. There are a couple of vandal users that continue to put it back in. I appreciate you trying to put this issue to rest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.56.66 (talk) 01:54, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Apart from being soundly sourced, the claim is of interest and is not in any way pejorative. There is no consensus here in favour of removing it. The article does not state that GM is Jewish or practises Judaism, only that his grandmother was Jewish. Please supply a Wikipedia guideline that the claim violates or leave it alone. As for the "vandal users", they are editing in good faith. Please read WP:VANDAL before making more vandalism accusations against other editors, and sign your future posts using four tildes. Viewfinder (talk) 13:52, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I added a referenced claim that his mother was English; this is no more inconsistent with his maternal grandmother being Jewish than calling GM English despite having a Greek Cypriot father. Viewfinder (talk) 23:27, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

removal
I removed the following lines from the politics subsection:

In the autumn of 2006, a homemade video set to Freedom 90, which criticized George W. Bush and encouraged Americans to vote against Republican political candidates, became extremely popular on YouTube, reintroducing the song to many young voters who had never heard it before. The song was originally about Michael's departure from Wham!, but this video used the lyrics as a metaphor for the 2006 elections which was not authorised by Mr Michael himself.

A fan creating a YouTube video has absolutely nothing to do with George Michael or his politics. IrishGuy talk 18:47, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Feleppa
The article states that Anselmo Feleppa died of an AIDS related brain-haemorrage. Has this been verified? Unless this information comes from a source that can be trusted, I believe the reference to Feleppa having AIDS should be removed. fritte 16:16, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe that Michael has stated himself that Feleppa died of AIDS.

That's a Rupert Murdoch conspiracy

George himself states on his "A Different Story" documentary the Anselmo was HIV Positive, and that George himself had to take a test. His song "Spinning the Wheel" is about the possibility of catching HIV/AIDS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.160.105.167 (talk) 09:53, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Birth name: Panagiotou or Panayiotou?
I'd propose the "g" form, because this is a gamma and thus "g". -andy 91.32.104.102 17:38, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * In contrast with the classical Greek, I think that the modern Greek gamma is pronounced more like an English "y". Viewfinder 17:41, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * That might be so, but it's still spelt with a "g", not a "y". Obviously an error? Hexmaster 09:02, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

the Greek "g" is a voiced velar fricative. It´s sometimes transcribed as "g", more often as "y", since it is no sound of English. The International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) uses the Greek "gamma" to disambiguate its pronunciation —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.148.181.85 (talk) 21:25, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Photograph?
Why is there no photograph of George Michael? He's very famous. Is it some kind of Wikipedia policy not to have photographs of most living people?

Kyriakos Panayiotou
I just want to tell you that George Michael' dad is named Iakovos. That is in english Jacob and not Kyriakos. Kyriakos is probably George Michael's second name. Many Greeks have got two names.

FREEDOM 90 VIDEO

"As if to prove the song's sentiment, George refused to appear in the video, which was directed by David Fincher, and instead recruited a number of supermodels (including Naomi Campbell, Linda Evangelista, Christy Turlington, Tatjana Patitz and Cindy Crawford) to mouth the words."

Well, the video is on YouTube and, besides the models, it shows a man who looks like George Michaels syncing to the lyrics. Is it someone else? If not, the article should be revised. Babby0 01:02, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

What is Faith about?
It says in the article that the Song Faith is about the singers rejection of an attractive third party who is trying to encourage Michael to be unfaithful to someone else. I see no mention of a second party, only Michael and one other potential lover.

Like the previous single ("I want your sex") and "Fast Love", the theme is how sex (which Michael portrays as a natural pleasurable activity in "I want your sex") is often taken to imply more than this, often pair bonding (hence the wedding music at the beginning), but the only justification for this leap from sex to pair bonding is a religion ("Faith" in Faith, "bible" in "Fast Love") which Michael does not share. --Timtak 10:28, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Anonymous Vandal: 172.202.58.167
Why does 172.202.58.167 keep removing referenced and accurate and informative text from this article? How do I block anon vandals?Darkieboy236 11:49, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi there. The nationality of George Michael is British.  This is a fact.  George Michael is also English, he is British and English.  Leaving out the fact that his nationality is British would mean that the article lacks important and basic information which is available on most articles relating to people.  Having English as a nationality would be the equivalent as having Californian as nationality for an American, or Queenslander as the nationality for an Australian.  Although not incorrect, they are not nationalities.  Therefore, the UK/British should be stated. Darkieboy236 14:47, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

"Darkieboy236" regularly goes through articles adding UK and changing English decriptions to British. The George Michael article had GM described as English with a reference with quotes from GM himself for quite some time! After asking this user to stop reverting back to his version as he was altering statements that were backed up with references he then added several useless references from unofficial websites so that he could use the same arguement. This user has repeatedly changed the article back to his version - this user has also been blocked previously for edit warring on a similar subject. I belive there was also a consensus met a year or so ago not to add UK to every geographical description as it is unncessary and looks stupid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.143.116.15 (talk) 15:28, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

new album in 2008?
Sorry, my fault!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course, you're right. Absolutely NO confirmation about new album in 2008. While adding a template I messed the article up a bit - but not on purpose and not as a vandal. I'm a good girl. ;-) --Fromgermany 10:51, 5 November 2007 (UTC)