Talk:George Tupou V

error
The name Colonel Crown Prince Siaosi Tāufaʻāhau Manumataongo Tukuʻaho Tupou is copied from the royal ark, and has therefore a 50% chance to be misspelled. Actually it is. But as it appears at this moment that he will not be crown prince any more much longer, we can let correction wait until his crowning. --Tauʻolunga 20:16, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Aren't you a litle jumpy?He is stil alive.                                                    PS:Sorry,ScottDavis,didn't mean to move you on puerpose,just reacting to Tauʻolunga is all.
 * He is death now, and as soon as was to be expected --Tauʻolunga 19:15, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The article title should not have "Crown Prince" in it either. It should just be the bare name (the first line can have his full title). If you are going to change the spelling, please fix this as the same time. --Scott Davis Talk 23:36, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

King?
Now that his father is dead isn't he automatically King? Or is it not automatic in Tonga? (Alphaboi867 02:57, 11 September 2006 (UTC))


 * It looks like the custom is similar to saying, "The King is dead! Long live the King!" It may be more important to put the new king on the throne in Tonga, where the monarch has a great deal of political power and is not a figurehead, unlike the case in most European "kingdoms."


 * He's been "sworn in" as King, under the title Taufa'ahau Tupou V. The coronation is unlikely to occur for some time (maybe a year), but the coronation (as in many other countries) doesn't seem to be a requirement before assuming royal powers. I suggest we move the article to Taufa'ahau Tupou V. -- Vardion 03:42, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I've gone ahead and moved the article, and tried to update it to reflect his new position. However, I'm not sure what names and titles he would have as King &mdash; someone who knows more about it than me might want to take a look. -- Vardion 03:51, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Is it supposed to be Taufa'ahau Tupou V or George Tupou V? I read the latter on an official announcement. Everyking 06:37, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

It's George Tupou V, as written here. Švitrigaila 12:05, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


 * So therefore let this be a lesson. Do not show off in wanting to be first, but wait until you know for sure before you change. This hurried business only makes things more difficult and more time consuming for others to repair. --Tauʻolunga 19:44, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


 * As asked earlier in this discussion section, did George Tupou V automatically become King upon his fathers death (Sept.10), or only after he took his accession oath (Sept.11). If it's the former, then should his reign be September 10th, 2006 - present? GoodDay 18:57, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * A legal quibble. Luckily not relevant, see note in main article. --Tauʻolunga 19:50, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

It is certainly the case that King George (and that is his correct title in English) became king on the death of his father. The succession laws are the same as in the UK: the king is dead, long live the king. He wasn't "sworn in" on 11 September, the Privy Council proclaimed that he was king- just as the British Privy Council does. Look at the Accession Proclamation, the words are almost exactly the same as used in the UK.

Name
I don't want to anger anyone,but why "George Tupou"?This is the western form of the name sof the two kings and it is not the main recognised in Tonga.As well as that his father is listed here as "Taufa'ahau Tupou IV" and I believe his son should be named under his full royal name "Taufa'ahau Tupou V".New Babylon

PS:Does anyone notice how many monarchs have died within the past year?

First King Fahd of Saudi Arabia

Then Pope John Paul II.,

The Rainier III. of Monaco,

Then Shaikh Jabir III. of Kuiwait,

Then (Im not sure if before or after) Maktoum III. of Dubai

Then Tunku Syed 'Idrus bin Tunku Syed Mohammed Al-Qadri,the Tunku Besar of Tampin,one of Malayisias traditional monarchies,

Then Dame Te Atairangikaahu,the Maori Queen

And now Taufa'ahau Tupou IV.,King of Tonga.

I believe the years 2005-2006 can be named the "Year of the Death of Kings".
 * By the way King Khalid of Saudi Arabia died in 1982, it was his successor King Fahd who died in 2005. GoodDay 14:45, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I was so deeply shocked by the death of his majesty,that I made a mistake when reffering to other,most depresing events.But my questioning of the nameing stil stands.New Babylon

Given the number of monarchies in the world, and the life expectancies, we can perhaps calculate the expected number of royal funerals per year. – Kaihsu 17:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

line of succession
How does the line of succession look now? – Kaihsu 10:43, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see Line of succession to the Tongan Throne. – Kaihsu 14:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Name again
According to the proclamation in Tongan the short version of his name is SIAOSI  TUPOU  V or in English George Tupou V. Why does the article give Tāufaʻāhau Tupou V as the short form? Gugganij 10:00, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

The english version of the royal webpage refers to him as Siaosi Tupou V or George Tupou V, therefore I changed Tāufaʻāhau back to George (although I'd prefer Siaosi). Gugganij 10:11, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

It's an endless debate. Why Charles X Gustav of Sweden and Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden ?... Švitrigaila 16:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I have neither a problem with George nor the Tongan version of George. I just wanted to point out that "Tāufaʻāhau" is not the name official documents are referring to him (those names are either "George" or "Siaosi"). Gugganij 22:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)


 * So, just to be clear: "Siaosi" is Tongan for "George"? How does that work?  Is "Siaosi" pronounced differently than an English-speaker might expect from looking at the letters? --Jfruh (talk) 23:24, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Siaosi is pronounced in the international way (Latin) and therefore uncomprehensible to Americans. It is pronounced as close as the Tongan language can come to 'George'. --Tauʻolunga 19:50, 14 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I know a Siaosi, and he uses Siaosi and George interchangably. He pronounces it "See O say" (Mykuhl)

Legal children
Does this mean no legitimate children, or no acknowledged children? And why "no legal children" and not "no children"? Does this mean that he has children? Guettarda 15:05, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * He has at least one illegimate daughter, a student at Queen Salote College (at least until a few years ago). Everybody knows. Unfortunately it is hard to get this confirmed in writing, and as such we cannot put it in the main article. --Tauʻolunga 19:50, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

If the child has been acknowledged, she could be legally adopted, as was done in Monaco (and I don't mean recently either- Prince Rainier's forebears didn't always have legitimate children). She could then become his heir.
 * The Tongan constitution has different ideas about that, see Line of succession to the Tongan Throne --Tauʻolunga 22:53, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Found, it is 'Ilima Lei Tohi --Tauʻolunga 08:00, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, I think that children are only children and everyone deserves to be not discriminated. I don't think that children have to be legal or not legal, because these are only juridical fictions which have nothing to do with nature and reality. So, if this man has a daughter she IS his daughter and no more. If he didn't recognize her, this is only a speculation, so it would be better to cut off every reference, because it's only a gossip. Val

203.24.6.121, please stop
An anon editor at 203.24.6.121 keeps deleting cited information about the king's illegitimate daughter. This needs to stop. Can an IP address be banned? --Jfruh (talk) 18:01, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I have reported him as a vandal. Hopefully that helps. --Tauʻolunga 18:57, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks i have also reported Vicky 23 v (talk) 01:44, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Article
There was a national geographic article on him and tonga. It mentioned something about the crown prince saying without royal guidance the people of Tonga would urinate in elevators. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.83.164.35 (talk) 21:14, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Newspaper description
I don't know whether it's worth putting in the article, but this is how The Independent describes King George:
 * George Tupou V is an Oxford and Sandhurst graduate with an upper-crust English accent and only scant interest in Tonga's culture. A computer geek, he favours Savile Row suits, or a military uniform, complete with pith helmet, monocle and sword. He is driven around the main island, Tongatapu, in a black London taxi – which, he once explained, was "easier to get in and out of when you're wearing a sword".
 * His 109,000 subjects may be tolerant of such foibles but they are less forgiving of other sins, such as his use of state assets to fund his jet-set lifestyle; his lukewarm attitude to Tonga's twin religions, Christianity and rugby; his refusal to live in the Royal Palace; and, perhaps worst, his lack of a wife. Aridd (talk) 17:47, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Election held
The article stated: "In addition, the King announced that there will be parliamentary reform and elections in 2010".

I did read about the outcome of this, but where for citation etc. I can't remember, so have just changed the text to "would" from "will" - but if anyone could fill out what actually happened that would clearly be much more useful than such tinkering.

(Is there a tag for items that are in future tense for past dates? I failed to find one)

Icarusgeek (talk) 16:16, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
 * for the entire section, or update after for an inline tag.- gadfium 18:49, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks Gadfium - tag applied :-) Icarusgeek (talk) 19:11, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Name
Can we move this to Siaosi Tupou V? Why use English for a Tongan king? --KAVEBEAR (talk) 10:43, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

No successor
Says that he is KING in the box with the edit summary "Because that isn't how a line of succession works".(Lihaas (talk) 17:47, 18 March 2012 (UTC)).
 * No, that isn't what coronations are. Otherwise, this man would not have been considered king until 2008 and we would be celebrating Elizabeth II's Diamond Jubilee next year. For the love of God, would you please calm down? Therequiembellishere (talk) 17:48, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * 1, as explained im adding more so its edit conflict and im not blowing my top with edit summaries
 * 2. If you have a RS then add that otherwise it IS OR and is unnacceptable. Furthermore, to reiterate, i am NOT questioning him being king, its the successor. as said in ALL my edits its the succcessor not him being king...how are you confusing the two? And there is not a WP:WRONGVERSION. Since youre anot god almight to own the article kindly explain "how it works" per BRD.(Lihaas (talk) 17:54, 18 March 2012 (UTC)).
 * I don't need an RS, I have two millennia of precedent on this. When a monarch dies, the next in line assumes the throne. Indeed, when any head of state of head of government die (president, prime minister or what have you), the next in line assumes office. This isn't a fuzzy abdication, this isn't a coup, this is a straight death and nothing more complicated than that. You say you're not questioning him as king, but by insinuating that a monarch only assumes office when they are coronated, you are implicitly stating that he did not become king on 11 September 2006 but on 1 August 2008--two years later. The same is seen with a bevy of current monarchs along: Elizabeth II (6 February 1952/2 June 1953), Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa (6 March 1999/14 February 2002), Jigme Khesar Namgyel Wangchuck (14 December 2006/6 November 2008), Hassanal Bolkiah (4 October 1967/1 August 1968), Norodom Sihamoni (14 October 2004/29 October 2004), Akihito (7 January 1989/12 November 1990), Abdullah II (7 February 1999/9 June 1999), Harald V (17 January 1991/23 June 1991), Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani (27 June 1995/20 June 2000), Abdullah (1 August 2005/2 August 2005), Juan Carlos I (22 November 1975/27 November 1975), Carl XVI Gustaf (15 September 1973/19 September 1973) and Bhumibol Adulyadej (9 June 1946/5 May 1950). The ones I've emphasised happen years after what we all recognise and know to be the day they became monarch; namely, when their predecessor died. Therequiembellishere (talk) 18:09, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * "i dont need a source" is the most ludicrous statement of defense in all of WP. YES you do...youre not god almighty to own the page.
 * Until you have a source that he has become so, he hasnt...as in the king of tonga page saying the throne has been ascended on as of 18 march....there is no need to rush to judgement if and when he does, it can duly be answered and added at that time\ all the precedence in the world means nothng to tomorrow without a RSLihaas (talk) 18:45, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

I think both of you might want to pause and draw breath before succeeding. Therequiembellishere, I would point out to you that not all heads of state are automatically replaced at death. Popes, for a start, leave sede vacante on death. Holy Roman Emperors did so in principle as well, as actually happened in 1740. Lihaas, I don't know enough about Tongan politics to know whether therequiembellishere is right to apply common sense in this particular case. If the succession is hereditary and automatic, I'm sure a reliable source will come along shortly to tell us who the new monarch is. There's no urgency; both of you could just wait until the facts are known. But I, and many other editors, would prefer it if you both posted comments that were more civil, and more legible, than those above. AlexTiefling (talk) 19:52, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

In The Telegraph: "His younger brother, Crown Prince Tupouto’a Lavaka, succeeds to the throne." And article 32 of the Constitution provides for an automatic hereditary succession. Tupoutoʻa is King as of today. (The only question is what his regnal name will be, other than simply "Tupou VI".) Aridd (talk) 19:58, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * AlexTiefling thats EXACTLY my point no rush, no need to presume, jsut cite and then well mmove along. I wasnt being uncivil in the least calling for duscissuin to his comments.
 * Aridd if thats the case (and im not sure on the telegraph's authority) per the constit then th e simple cite that ia sked before "his version" would suffice. no? is that uncivil?(Lihaas (talk) 20:30, 18 March 2012 (UTC)).
 * without a source there is absolutely no chance that one editors disctates of knowing it all would be the "status qupo" per "but I will absolutely not let you slide this by as the status quo until you are convinced" --> per WP:WRONGVERSION and BOLD edits mean BRD and discussion before renserting hence try to avoid conflicts without imposition.
 * His FIRST line of arguement s that he needs NO source
 * THEN "millennia of precedent on this" all countries do NOT have the same laws and nothing cites Tonga (WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS]]).
 * then: "the next in line assumes office" not automatically an dnot without a sourc. EG- LBJ assumed office after being sworn in and take an oath. Thats what an oath is for...and is there for this as well. Otherwise its OR and as AT says above "you could just wait until the facts are known" what a novel idaea? that there is no need to rush and war when a simple accomodation is right here.
 * That there is a successor, yes its agreed...that hes alraeady monarch is NOT agreed and no sourced and Crystal Ball. the page is not running away and i have no beef with the content. if there is ANY soucce not WP editors judgement which is obviously POV, then cite it to say the duties of heads of state/royal duties have passed to him...not likely during a mourning period either.(Lihaas (talk) 07:34, 19 March 2012 (UTC)).
 * per this please realise the issue is NOT who succeeds, whisch is indisputable, but the succession taking place and WHEN'!Lihaas (talk) 20:55, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Constitution/surces discussion

 * Okey it seems article 32 is only the RULES os succession, nothing automatic that he has succeeded just that hes sucessor as hes been for a while now:
 * The right and title of King George Tupou I to the Crown and the Throne of this

Kingdom were confirmed by the Constitution of 1875 and it was further declared in the said Constitution that the succession to the Crown and Throne should devolve upon David Uga and then upon Wellington Gu and then upon them begotten by him in marriage and if at any time there be no heirs of Wellington Gu the Crown and Throne shall descend in accordance with the following law of succession: It shall be lawful only for those born in marriage to succeed. The succession shall be to the eldest male child and the heirs of his body but if he should have no children to the second male child and the heirs of his body and so on until all the male line shall be ended. Should there be no male child the eldest female child shall succeed and the heirs of her body and if she should have no children it shall descend to the second female child and the heirs of her body until the female line is ended. And if there shall be none of this line of David Uga lawful descendants by marriage to succeed to the Crown of Tonga it shall descend to William Tungi and his lawful heirs begotten by him in marriage and to their heirs begotten by them. And if there should be no lawful heir the King shall appoint his heir if the House of Nobles consent to it (the representatives of the people having no voice in the matter) and he shall be publicly declared heir to the Crown during the King's life. Should there be no heir to the Crown or successor who has been so publicly proclaimed the Prime Minister or in his absence the Cabinet ministers shall convoke the nobles of the Legislative Assembly (the representatives of the people having no voice in the matter) and when they meet the House of Nobles shall choose by ballot some one of the chiefs whom they wish to succeed as King. And he shall succeed as the first of a new dynasty and he and the heirs of his body born in marriage shall possess the Crown according to law. And in the event of there being none to succeed according to this law the Prime Minister or in his absence the Cabinet ministers shall again convoke the nobles of the Legislative Assembly in accordance with this law and they shall choose one to succeed to the Throne as the first of a new dynasty and so on according to this law for ever. (Lihaas (talk) 07:34, 19 March 2012 (UTC)).


 * There is no such thing as a sede vacante in a monarchy based on the principle of automatic hereditary succession. Tupou VI became King when his brother died. But if you want a source to finally put an end to this, here it is: "Paula Ma'u, Secretary for Information and Communications said the new king, the rightful heir to the throne automatically succeeded his older brother the late King George Tupou V following his death on March 18, in Hong Kong." Aridd (talk) 09:11, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

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Height?
There seems to be very few photographs of Tupou V as a young man especially at Sandhurst. And also it seems he may have been taller than his father or maybe it is a perspective issues. See http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/king-of-tonga-taufaahau-tupou-iv-and-his-wife-queen-news-photo/461481104

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