Talk:George W. Hellmuth

sorting father vs. son
Thanks again to User:Durindaljb for identifying duplicate-name architects, each with a bio from the same source! I see MB is on it already, thanks for that, too!

To sort out works by each will require developing about the works, figuring out dates of design/construction.

Hey User:MB i see you are coincindentally editing right now too. I hit an edit conflict that may have garbled some stuff now. I won't edit more in the article this morning. --Doncram (talk) 14:33, 16 January 2020 (UTC)


 * User:MB, i am starting Steelcote Manufacturing Company Paint Factory article, designed by "Hellmuth and Hellmuth". From NRIS only so far, that appears to have been built in 1922, which would be early for it to be a joint work of father and son, son would be just 15 years old.  If Hellmuth and Hellmuth was a firm of father(?) George W. Hellmuth (1870-1955) and son (?) George W. Hellmuth (1907–1999)?  --Doncram (talk) 14:47, 16 January 2020 (UTC)


 * , I am done. I think I have everything split between father and son. There is at least one ref for everything (I am assuming the sources are correct and they weren't mixed up). Steelcote was by father and his brother Garry, a third Hellmuth architect. MB 14:56, 16 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Ah, good. Yes it is possible that some sources indeed mix things up.  From experience we know NRHP document writers focused on just one work, especially, when they try to comment more widely, often get some things wrong.  Right, from the Steelcote NRHP doc:"The Steelcote Manufacturing Company Paint Factory is believed to be the first known building in St. Louis built with a floating foundation, and was designed by Hellmuth and Hellmuth, a renowned St. Louis architectural firm. The firm was founded by brothers George and Harry Hellmuth. The firm did much of its work in St. Louis, including many notable local religious buildings, houses, and factory and office buildings. Among the most notable buildings are St. Mark's Evangelical Church, the Chapels of the Pink Sisters, #10 Hortense Place, the Fur Exchange Building, and 'The Woodlands.' Later, Hellmuth and Hellmuth dissolved and George Hellmuth formed Hellmuth, Yamasaki, and Leinweber, which in turn became Hellmuth, Obata, and Kassabaum, better known as HOK, an internationally recognized architectural firm today. The successor firms have designed such notable buildings as Lambert airport, the Riyadh (Saudi Arabia) Alrport, the first building at SIUE, the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum, the McDonnell Planetarium (now part of the St. Louis Science Center), the Priory Church, Marion Federal Penitentiary and the new Busch Stadium. Other notable local designs include the Sanitol Chemical Laboratory Company (now the Crown Lofts), the Church of the Little Flower, and a number of other religious buildings. In addition the firm designed the monument for the Vicksburg Memorial."
 * --Doncram (talk) 15:04, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Is the father consistently presented as "George W. Hellmuth" and the son as "George Hellmuth" without a "W"? That is how it is presented at the bios, including this bio of son. But hmm this is not consistently done: the Steelcote NRHP doc names the father as George without a W.  But is it confirmed that the son's middle initial is W? --Doncram (talk) 15:31, 16 January 2020 (UTC)


 * You are correct, this says the son was George Frances. MB 15:45, 16 January 2020 (UTC)


 * It looks like there is enough info here now to split the article now. Do you agree? MB 16:03, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

, The nom form said the brother was Garry in one place and Harry in another. Findagrave says Harry, so I think that is correct. I think the father was at Hellmuth & Spiering, then Hellmuth & Hellmuth. I think the above (Steelcote NRHP) may be wrong when it states H&H was dissolved and then came Hellmuth, Yamasaki, and Leinweber which became HOK. H,Y,&L was formed by the son - was there really any continuation of the father/uncle firm? Not clear about this transition. MB 15:38, 16 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Feel free to split or develop however you like. I really should not do more today.  Right now not sure what to do about photo supposedly illustrating Plaza Square Apartments Historic District.  Gotta stop.  Thanks! --Doncram (talk) 16:18, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
 * , I did the split into George F. Hellmuth, and found the mystery telephone building is AT&T Center (St. Louis). Also found Bill Hellmuth's wedding announcement that said he was the grandson of "George Hellmuth" - which I believe is George F. (who usually doesn't use any middle initial). So it looks like George W. started a firm as a partnership, that maybe George F took over and grew into the largest architecture firm in US, and Bill the grandson later took over (after working outside the family business). No idea if Bill's father was involved in architecture at all. MB 06:02, 17 January 2020 (UTC)