Talk:George Zinkhan/Archives/2012

Redirect or stand alone discussion
One Event. It has been ascertained that the articles for the victims should be a re-direct to George Zinkhan as per people notable for one event means that the victims do not warrant an article in their own right. I tried to add a "Casualties" section to George Zinkhan, and this section was also deleted. I feel that the victims are professional people who probably warranted their own page in the first place before the event, and as the articles are only minutes old and already longer than a typical section, they should probably not be sections of another article. See what is out there, they all graduated from University and must have done something. :-) SriMesh | talk  18:33, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

UGA links
Now that he has been dismissed the UGA pages have been pulled and the links are dead. – ukexpat (talk) 01:05, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

"Expatriate"
Karppinen (spelling?) has twice now added a category for "American expatriates in the Netherlands". I have seen nothing either in the article or elsewhere to support it. Yes he has a second home in the Netherlands, but until a week ago, he was living in Bogart, Georgia, US. We don't know where he is now. None of that implies expatriate status. Lady of  Shalott  17:35, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Article reads: "He owns a second home in Amsterdam, the capital of the Netherlands, where he was a marketing professor at the Vrije Universiteit." Here's a source for this. He has worked as a professor in a foreign country, I guess that makes him an expatriate. Karppinen (talk) 18:10, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No, working in another county does not make one an expatriate. Lady  of  Shalott  18:13, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmmm.... well I looked at the article, and it seems ridiculously broad to me, but I won't revert the edit again. Lady  of  Shalott  18:17, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Let's see what an expatriate really is. "An expatriate (in abbreviated form, expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country and culture other than that of the person's upbringing or legal residence."


 * Indeed. According to source, Zinkhan is exactly this kind of a person. This article needs some work, but don't worry. I'll be back. Karppinen (talk) 18:31, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I already had said I looked at the article and what I thought of it, but that I would not change the edit again (because of what the article said). There's no need for snarkiness. Lady  of  Shalott  18:34, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * By the definition quoted above, the subject is not currently an expatriate, as far as we know. If he turns up again in the Netherlands, then he'll be an expatriate (again). Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:52, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Good point. Lady  of  Shalott  03:59, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

BLP and possible death
Remember folks, even if the body turns out to be Zinkhan, WP:BLP still applies to the recently dead. – ukexpat (talk) 19:31, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Georgia Bureau of investigation seems to have confirmed Zinkhan's death, but I'm still waiting more updates about this. Zinkhan's FBI profile will soon read "deceased". Karppinen (talk) 23:08, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I have changed the WPBio template at the top of the page to living=no, but added the BLP template as BLP still applies to the recently dead. – ukexpat (talk) 03:02, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So if someone were to say, paraphrasing Robert Benchley, that, "He eventually shot the right guy," would that be considered a violation? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 22:57, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * BLP does not apply to dead people, regardless of how long ago they died. It applies to what is stated about living people on any article, but there is no real likelihood that anyone would libel any living person on this article, as the subject and his victims are dead. Hence there is no need for a blp or blpo notice on this TP. Best name (talk) 18:29, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually there is consensus that WP:BLP applies for a short time after death and see generally BLP. And also see Lifetime for proper placement of that template. – ukexpat (talk) 18:46, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There is nothing of the sort. What the policy does say is "In the case of deceased individuals, material must still comply with all wikipedia policies and prompt removal of questionable material is proper." That's not at all the same claim as the big BLP hammer falling down on it. JoshuaZ (talk) 18:12, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * While the policy may not spell it out, recent practice and, yes, consensus has been to hold articles of the recently deceased to the BLP policy. Lady  of  Shalott  18:28, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That's probably meant to discourage vandalistic postings like "What a Bozo!" and such as that, which can happen anytime, but are most likely to happen to someone in the news, like if they recently died. However, "What a Bozo!" would be against policy anyway, unless a citation can be found. For example, if I referred to Bob Bell and said "What a Bozo!", that would be verifiable. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 20:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The Lady is indeed correct. I participated in a discussion about this a few months ago. I try to find the link. – ukexpat (talk) 21:02, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I definitely want to see a pointer to that conversation. The policy for a very long time was that that was affirmatively not the case. If this sort of BLP creep is happening then we have a serious problem. JoshuaZ (talk) 23:31, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe start by finding out who posted that rule in the guideline. It could be a "ringer". That's been known to happen. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:54, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Fugitive categories
Should we remove these still now that it has been confirmed that Zinkhan is dead? Or is a dead fugitive whose body has been found still a fugitive? Lady of  Shalott  23:04, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I removed them - he's dead so no longer a fugitive. – ukexpat (talk) 00:44, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that was my thinking as well, but I wasn't sure if there was some quirk to how those categories were handled. Lady  of  Shalott  00:46, 11 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I just took the pragmatic approach -- to be a fugitive one has to be alive and on the run. – ukexpat (talk) 02:35, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Deletion
This page does not meet criteria for notability. The Wikipedia notability page states: "It takes more than just a short burst of news reports about a single event or topic to constitute sufficient evidence of notability - particularly for individuals known for one event (WP:BLP1E)." The Wikipedia notability (criminal acts) page lists three criteria for perpetrators:

1. The person is "notable for something beyond the crime itself." 2. "The victim is a renowned world figure." 3. "The motivation for the crime or execution of the crime is unusual or... is a well-documented historic event.

This page does not meet these criteria. Wikipedia is not a newspaper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.41.161.208 (talk) 01:02, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Crimes apart, he easily passes WP:PROF. – ukexpat (talk) 01:16, 16 July 2009 (UTC)