Talk:Georgi Kinkladze

Wrong Name
The Name Georgiou does not exist in Georgian language. The Georgian name is Giorgi. Please correct that. -- 87.123.100.198 09:24, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
 * In England, his name was registered with the FA as Georgiou, and Georgiou is the name which was used on official listings (i.e. Manchester City squadlists). It is how he is most commonly known in English (other than by the truncation Gio), and is therefore the correct title for the English language wikipedia. Oldelpaso 11:34, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

That has some what of a Romanian connotation, there is no such name in Georgian and there is an apt English equivelent, his name is Georgi, pronounced Gey-org-ee.
 * Having consulted a number of sources when expanding the article, it seems that Georgi is used more frequently after all. Oldelpaso (talk) 13:10, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

UEFA.COM - Giorgi--Gaga.vaa (talk) 12:32, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

No need discuss please, Giorgi is Georgian form of name (გიორგი), Georgi is Russian form of name (Георгий). They (Russian) usually translated Georgian (and some other) names to russian (If name have russian form), for example: Giorgi - Georgi (English form - George), Aleksandre - Aleksandr (Alexander), Tevdore - Fedor (Theodore), Andria - Andrey (Andrew), Mikheil - Mikhail (Michael)...

for example we have Georgi Demetradze Also, but main name of article is Giorgi Demetradze, of course--Gaga.vaa (talk) 12:45, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Preliminary GA comments
Well, here we are then... On hold. Let me know when you want me to re-review. The Rambling Man 20:48, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * His nicknames need citation really.
 * "A playmaker..." - I know what this is, does the non-expert?
 * "...spectacular goals made him a cult hero..." - verging on peacock, in my opinion.
 * "Mretebi Tbilisi" - "the first official professional club in the Soviet Union" - citation required plus I'd create the article too if the club is notable as such.
 * "mtiulur" - I'd italicise it, it's a strange word and if no wiki-link exists then perhaps it's worth making sure it's clearly a foreign expression.
 * "...1993, the Tbilisi management sought to put their players in a more stable environment. Kinkladze, with two others, was sent on loan to Saarbrucken in Germany." - needs citation. Presumably it's the Perfect 10 book, but assertions about the height of the Georgian conflict need other, independent citation.
 * Saarbrucken has an umlaut in the infobox and not in the text. Consistency required.
 * Use en-dash throughout for page/year ranges.
 * "national Player of the Year" - cite.
 * "thrashed" - POV.
 * "19th August 1995." - WP:DATE - try 19 August, 1995.
 * "(against Aston Villa)" - why in parentheses?
 * "firmly established as the star player of" - NPOV.
 * "(rivalling the Maine Road legend Colin Bell in the eyes of some fans)" - original research and, again, why in parentheses?
 * "particularly spectacular", "cheekily chipping" - again, NPOV required.
 * "In 2003 the goal was voted "Best ever Maine Road goal" in a poll of Manchester City fans." - citation required.
 * "bizarre one" - NPOV.
 * " The First Division had a reputation for a more physical approach than the Premier League." - cite.
 * "which at the time made him the highest paid player in the club's history." - cite.
 * " unaffordable luxury" - cite.
 * "notorious" - cite, unless that's in the book.
 * "calamitous defending including a freak own goal" - NPOV.
 * "City no longer controlled their own fate, and were relegated for the second time in three seasons despite a final day win against Stoke City." - cite.
 * "...turned sour..." - NPOV.
 * "...on 28 November." - new section so complete date with year and wikilink.
 * [41] needs to be placed per WP:CITE. I'd put all three citations at the end of the sentence.
 * Most of the way there now. Notes on specific points:


 * Mretebi: I would create it, but decent sources in English are hard to come by, and I don't like creating substubs.
 * thrashed: Neville Southall uses "murdered" when quoted in Perfect 10, not wanting to use "murdered" I used "thrashed" as an alternative.
 * firmly established as the star player: the flippant response to this would be "he was playing alongside Steve Lomas and Gerry Creaney". This is one of those that can prove difficult. Depicting the extraordinary level of adulation Kinkladze received at City can result in giving a fawning impression if not done carefully, toning it down too much can remove colour. I've attempted to reword it.
 * particularly spectacular: I've removed the "cheekily" but if it won Goal of the Month I think it stands to reason that it was particularly spectacular.
 * Bizzare one: Five managers in five months is almost without precedent in English football. I've changed it to "turbulent", is that better?
 * Highest paid player - a frustrating one as I absolutely know it to be true, but my sources do not mention it explicitly, merely inferring it indirectly. If only online newspaper archives went back a year or two more. But, verifiability not truth means it goes.
 * unaffordable luxury: The term is mine rather than one from a ref, but it is used by way of summary. Both Perfect 10 and Blue Moon Rising go into the relationship between Royle and Kinkladze at length. Having already used a quote from Royle I think a second quote would be excessive, and "Royle viewed Kinkladze as an unaffordable luxury" sums up the picture portrayed by both books.
 * "notorious": I'm almost tempted to respond with "But its Vinnie Jones", but omitting the word doesn't reduce the weight of the sentence by much, so removed. Incidentally, I night have to put Jones' article on my to-do list, it could do with a facelift. Oldelpaso (talk) 11:09, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Good work Oldelpaso, I'm happy with both your revisions and your explanations so I'm happy to promote this article to Good Article status. Well done.  The Rambling Man (talk) 18:41, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Kinkladze entry in football biographic book
Kinkladze Georgi (Georgia). 06 July 1973. Midfielder. Played for Georgian teams Mretebi Tbilisi (1990 - 1991/1992, 80 games, 18 goals) and Dinamo Tbilisi (1992/1993-1994/1995, 65 games, 41 goal), German FC Saarbrücken (1993/1994, 11 games), English Manchester City (1995/1996-1998/1999, 106 games, 20 goals), Dutch Ajax Amsterdam (1998/1999, 12 games), English Derby County (1999/2000, 17 games, 1 goal). Dutch Cup holder - 1999. Best footballer of Georgia - 1993, 1996. Played in 37 games and scored 7 goals for Georgian national team from 1992 to 1999. One of the best Georgian footballers at the close of XX century.

I wonder if this information is useful because stats seem to be incorrect. Jhon y    13:16, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks like some of the infobox figures include cup matches. I'll check those for which I have cast-iron figures. Oldelpaso (talk) 20:03, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Kinkladze's stats on Rubin website
One more version of his statistics (http://www.rubin-kazan.ru/season/statistics/cbdf706b34774812b0a78579a2632363.html)  Jhon  y    15:06, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Should I go ahead and change pre-MC stats in the article in accordance with this, as it's the most plausible version?  Jhon  y    20:35, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Derby stats from Soccerbase: 1999-2000: League 17 (1), FA Cup 1 (0). 2000-01 League 24 (1), FA Cup 1 (0), League Cup 2 (0). 2001-02 League 24 (1), League Cup 1 (1). 2002-03 League 28 (4) FA Cup 1 (0) League Cup 1 (0). Oldelpaso (talk) 17:47, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * League stats from RSSSF match up, so I'll change the infobox figures for Mretebi and Dinamo. Oldelpaso (talk) 16:12, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

The push to FA

 * I'm planning on trimming some more of the match commentary from the Rubin section, as it is much more detail given than the sections for the other clubs
 * I think some of the coverage of transfer speculation (Galatasaray, Liverpool) should be removed. Transfer speculation in newspapers is frequently unreliable, so I don't think we should rely upon it. Oldelpaso (talk) 18:45, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * (about match commentary) Maybe, I thought about it too. I hope it will positively affect the quality.
 * (about transfers) Disagree here, it depends on the case, really. In case of Liverpool, ref just says "according to Kinkladze", not quoting what exactly he said, so I'm not against the removal there. But case of Galatasaray is surely not a speculation, as ref contains Kinkladze's direct speech: "Представители турецкого клуба ведут переговоры с руководством "Дерби" и моим агентом Бенешем, - заявил Георгий. - Однако еще ничего не подписано. Единственное, что я знаю наверняка, это то, что я очень хотел бы остаться и играть за "Дерби"." (translation - "Representatives of the Turkish club are in talks with Derby's directors and my agent Benes, - said Georgi. - However nothing is signed at the moment. The only thing that I know for sure is my desire to remain and play for Derby") By the way, using |quote= to provide ref with English translation is probably a good idea in such cases.  Jhon  y    20:19, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Incidentally it was you who added some part of that "transfer speculation" to the article. :) (I mean "In September 1999 he held transfer talks with Sheffield United, but no move materialised.")  Jhon  y    20:57, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The Galatasaray one surprised me, as it isn't mentioned in "Kinkladze: The Perfect 10", which for that part of his career is exhaustive in most other respects. But then I found . It is difficult to separate the genuine attempts to sign him from those that are just bluster from his agent. Oldelpaso (talk) 22:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * So, as far as I understand, you are not against keeping Galatasaray fragment in the article. By the way, this BBC link is about Galatasaray's second attempt to sign him in January 2003, while ref in Russian describes their first attempt in summer 2002.  Jhon  y    19:49, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm going to change Seba back to Saba, as Saba is an ancient Georgian name, while Seba is not (I can support this with sources in Russian, but I doubt they will be helpful). "Perfect 10" may be inaccurate in spelling of Georgian names ("Robizon" is another example of it).   Jhon  y    19:49, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Caps

 * 1) 17.09.1992 Azerbaijan Non-A
 * 2) 08.02.1994 Malta Tournament
 * 3) 10.02.1994 Malta Tournament
 * 4) 12.02.1994 Malta Tournament
 * 5) 11.06.1994
 * 6) 23.06.1994
 * 7) 19.07.1994
 * 8) 07.09.1994 Euro 1996
 * 9) 12.10.1994 Euro 1996
 * 10) 16.11.1994 Euro 1996 ⚽ 41'
 * 11) 14.12.1994 Euro 1996
 * 12) 29.03.1995 Euro 1996
 * 13) 26.04.1995 Euro 1996
 * 14) 07.06.1995 Euro 1996 ⚽ 72'
 * 15) 06.09.1995 Euro 1996
 * 16) 11.10.1995 Euro 1996 ⚽ 47' (pk)
 * 17) 15.11.1995 Euro 1996
 * 18) 24.04.1996
 * 19) 01.09.1996
 * 20) 09.10.1996 World Cup 1998
 * 21) 09.11.1996 World Cup 1998
 * 22) 29.03.1997 ⚽ 45' (pk)
 * 23) 20.04.1997 World Cup 1998
 * 24) 07.06.1997 World Cup 1998 ⚽ 51' (pk)
 * 25) 14.06.1997 World Cup 1998
 * 26) 10.09.1997 World Cup 1998
 * 27) 24.09.1997 World Cup 1998
 * 28) 10.02.1998 Malta Tournament
 * 29) 02.05.1998 ⚽ 38'
 * 30) 20.05.1998
 * 31) 19.08.1998
 * 32) 05.09.1998 Euro 2000
 * 33) 10.10.1998 Euro 2000
 * 34) 14.10.1998 Euro 2000
 * 35) 27.03.1999 Euro 2000
 * 36) 29.03.2000 ⚽ 27'
 * 37) 04.06.2000
 * 38) 11.06.2000
 * 39) 07.10.2000 World Cup 2002 ⚽ 46'
 * 40) 11.10.2000 World Cup 2002
 * 41) 28.03.2001 World Cup 2002
 * 42) 24.04.2001
 * 43) 06.06.2001 World Cup 2002
 * 44) 01.09.2001 World Cup 2002
 * 45) 05.09.2001 World Cup 2002
 * 46) 06.10.2001 World Cup 2002
 * 47) 17.04.2002
 * 48) 21.08.2002
 * 49) 08.09.2002 Euro 2004
 * 50) 29.03.2003 Euro 2004
 * 51) 10.09.2003 Euro 2004
 * 52) 18.02.2004 Cyprus Tournament
 * 53) 19.02.2004 Cyprus Tournament
 * 54) 21.02.2004 Cyprus Tournament
 * 55) 09.02.2005

Matthew_hk  t  c  10:34, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Wrong Name, again
The correct form of his name is Giorgi, Georgi does not exist in Georgian language –ბრუტ (talk) 16:23, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Please delete to make way for move, if you've nothing opposite –ბრუტ (talk) 14:13, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The relevant guideline for this is COMMONNAME, which says "In deciding whether and how to translate a foreign name into English, follow English-language usage". When playing in England, Kinkladze's first name was transliterated as Georgi. Oldelpaso (talk) 13:12, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Derby County Debt
In the section regarding his time at Derby County it states: The club, who were £352 million in debt, started an end-of-season clear-out to reduce their annual £17 million wage bill. Yet in the sourced material it states: Derby, who are £35m in debt, are attempting to settle the contracts of their international defenders Horacio Carbonari and Bjorn Otto Bragstad.

I'm going to amend the figure from 352 to 35. There is no way Derby were ever 352 million in debt.--109.152.216.254 (talk) 02:26, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for picking this up, clearly a typo. Oldelpaso (talk) 19:57, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Great article!
Fond memories of him at Man City. Kinkladze, Tony Yeboah and Matt Le Tissier caused more excitement among Match of the Day commentators than any of the top scorers like Alan Shearer, Andy Cole and Robbie Fowler did during that period. I remember watching Kinkladze's and Yeboah's goals in particular with awe, hitting the rewind button on the VCR countless times!! Definitely one of the premiership's best players but he really was the victim of being at clubs which were at the time in a very poor state and didn't fulfill his true potential. In today's football I think he could have been nurtured into a superstar alongside the likes of Ronaldo and Messi, he was a world-class player without a doubt. Sorry to see this didn't progress at FAC.♦ Dr. Blofeld  22:24, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 30 January 2014

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. Armbrust The Homunculus 00:57, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Georgi Kinkladze → Giorgi Kinkladze – His real name is Giorgi and not Georgi and should definitely be moved to his name what is Giorgi, thus Giorgi Kinkladze. Jaqeli (talk) 12:57, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Support as nominator. Jaqeli (talk) 13:01, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. "Georgi Kinkladze" 28,600 results vs "Giorgi Kinkladze" 10,200 results. It doesn't really matter how his name is spelled in Georgian. Aram Khachaturian's last name would correctly be spelled Khachatryan, yet in English, he is better known as Khachaturian. -- Ե րևանցի talk  00:36, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Per WP:COMMONNAME, a search should be restricted to Google News and Google Books, because they concentrate reliable sources. Yerevantsi's links are to general web searches, which include lots of unreliable sources. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)
 * Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. I searched Google Books:
 * "Georgi Kinkladze" -wikipedia -"books llc" 96 hits
 * "Giorgi Kinkladze" -wikipedia -"books llc" 6 hits
 * So Georgi is much more commonly used is reliable sources. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:22, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:

As I stated in a thread above, in English language sources Kinkladze is most commonly referred to as "Georgi". As the guideline Naming conventions (use English) says: The title of an article should generally use the version of the name of the subject which is most common in the English language. Other spellings, "Giorgi" included, are already present as redirects. Oldelpaso (talk) 17:29, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Page moving, Reason Wrong Name
I am sorry guys but, this name Georgi is not Georgian form of name, may be this mistake because that romanization standard of georgian not was existed in english when Gio was played in mancity. I think this is very big offense for this person and for all english-georgian cultural relationship. you can check, all Competent web sources - correct name is Giorgi, i will add references and will move page

- --Gaga.vaa (talk) 21:56, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
 * UEFA
 * Transfermarkt
 * RSSSF (Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation)
 * Manchester City FC official Site
 * Ajax FC official Site
 * Football Association of R.O. Ireland
 * EuroSport
 * BBC Sport
 * Goal.com
 * Manchester Evening News
 * NewsDay
 * Romanization of Georgian