Talk:Georgia Tech Research Institute

Cleanup
Someone did an excellent job expanding the article - now this information needs organization and structure. Also, the individual labs should have their own pages. --Disavian 17:36, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

GA Push Improvement Drive
Disavian asked me to look over this article ahead of a planned GA push. I think it's close. This is kind of a running to-do list to keep track of what needs to be done before moving forward with that.


 * Add alt text to images. (Done through the end of the Cold War section.)
 * ✅ —Disavian (talk/contribs) 02:44, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Add inflation template to any other necessary monetary amounts.
 * ✅ —Disavian (talk/contribs) 03:04, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Audit for missing non-breaking spaces between numerals and nouns. (Should be done through the end of the Cold War section, but I'm known to miss a few)
 * ✅ —Disavian (talk/contribs) 03:34, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Check for/fix broken links in refs. (I know there are several.)
 * ✅ —Disavian (talk/contribs) 03:49, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Audit for any overlinking.
 * The Organization and Locations sections have a lot of internally redundant material. Clean up/cull/consolidate where necessary.

--LaMenta3 (talk) 22:12, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Post-FAC prose review

 * "However, there was little state initiative to see the school grow drastically until 1919" I would prefer "expand significantly" over "grow drastically". It is not a shrub.
 * Implemented. I demand... a shrubbery! And also a research institute. Disavian (talk) 05:17, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * A nice one... but not too expensive! --Cryptic C62 · Talk 23:42, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * "That year, coinciding with federal debate about the establishment of Engineering Experiment Stations in a move similar to the Hatch Act of 1887's establishment of Agricultural experiment stations, the Georgia General Assembly passed an act titled "Establishing State Engineering Experiment Station at the Georgia School of Technology."" This is a very long sentence, and it's somewhat hard to follow. I suggest cutting out "coinciding with federal debate about the establishment of Engineering Experiment Stations", as that phrase doesn't really add information that isn't made obvious by the rest of the sentence.
 * Implemented. Disavian (talk) 05:17, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * "This station was established with the goal of the "encouragement of industries and commerce" within the state." Citation? Sentences with quotes should always be followed immediately by a reference.
 * Fixed. Disavian (talk) 05:20, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * "The federal effort ultimately failed and the state did not finance the organization, so the new organization existed only on paper." Is the second clause necessary? It adds nothing new, and the phrase is somewhat colloquial.
 * Implemented. Disavian (talk) 05:17, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * When providing inflation-adjustment values, don't use "today". State the year in which the conversion was made (presumably 2012). See WP:ASOF for more details.
 * I changed each instance of "today" to "in 2024 ". Disavian (talk) 05:24, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * That may actually be more misleading: The year will update automatically, but the inflation value will not. If no one updates the inflation value in the next three years, then it will be three years outdated without any indication of such. The safest bet is to give the actual year that the calculation was made. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 23:42, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Oop, I see now that the inflation value is transcluded from a template which uses CURRENTYEAR as an argument. Works for me!
 * "In 1933, S. V. Sanford, president of the University of Georgia ... President Marion L. Brittain" I'm confused; which of these two chaps was the president?
 * S. V. Sanford was president of the University of Georgia, while Marion L. Brittain was president of the Georgia Institute of Technology. So... yes, but of different universities. Disavian (talk) 09:37, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it would be worthwhile to clarify the matter with "Georgia Tech President Marion L. Brittain", as it is easy to confuse Georgia Tech and University of Georgia. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 09:35, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I finally did that. diff Disavian (talk) 04:41, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Regarding "a collection of issues related to Tech" and "a 'technical research activity' be established at Tech": As far as I can tell, these are the only two instances in which "Georgia Institute of Technology" is abbreviated to "Tech". I suggest expanding them to "Georgia Tech" to avoid confusion.
 * Complete. diff. Disavian (talk) 04:41, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * "Vaughan was selected as its acting director in April 1934" I think it might be a bit ambiguous what "it" refers to in this sentence, both because it occurs at the beginning of a section, and because the last sentence of the previous section mentions three different institutions which could be "it".
 * Good call. diff. Disavian (talk) 04:44, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * "EES's initial areas of focus... The station's name was technically the State Engineering Experiment Station, but it was generally referred to as EES (Engineering Experiment Station) or simply "the research station"." An acronym should never be introduced without an immediate indication of what it means.
 * I also threw that acronym into the lead for good measure. diff. Disavian (talk) 04:47, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * "the 1943–1944 budget being was first in which" I'm not sure what the word "being" is supposed to mean here. Perhaps a leftover from an older version of this sentence?
 * Yeah, I think that confused "being the first" and "was the first". fixed. Disavian (talk) 01:53, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "Vaughan had initially prepared the faculty for fewer incoming contracts as state had cut the station's appropriation by 40%" Shouldn't "state" be "the state" or perhaps even "the state of Georgia"?
 * I decided that the body that alters appropriations is the Georgia General Assembly, so I changed "state" to that. diff. Disavian (talk) 04:27, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "Other accomplishments during Rosselot's administration at the Engineering Experiment Station included the purchase of an electron microscope in 1946 for $13,000" I disagree with the idea of referring to such a purchase as an "accomplishment". Perhaps calling it an "important investment" would be better.
 * That sounds less POV, I like it. diff. Disavian (talk) 04:32, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "When the Georgia Board of Regents ruled that all money received in a year had to be spent that year; this was problematic because most government contracts span multiple years." Improper use of the semicolon. Also, the claim that "most government contracts span multiple years" is extremely difficult to validate. A much more reasonable claim would be "most of the government contracts they had received spanned multiple years".
 * Here's my attempt at fixing that. It looks like two sentences were combined, or I started writing something and didn't finish it. Anyway, diff. Disavian (talk) 04:37, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Unresolved comments
-- Cryptic C62 · Talk 23:11, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
 * "In its first decades of its existence, Georgia Tech slowly grew from a trade school into a university." I think the first sentence of this section should state when exactly Georgia Tech was founded. Otherwise, the reader is left wondering what period the "first decades" refers to.
 * It was founded in 1885 and opened in 1888. How do you like the phrase "Around the turn of the 20th century"? Disavian (talk) 05:17, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * That's not very specific either, as the phrase "turn of the century" can mean either the beginning or the end of a century. How about: "After being founded in 1885, Georgia Tech grew from a trade school into a university over the course of several decades." Specificity without redundancy -- coitus nuggets! --Cryptic C62 · Talk 23:42, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * That sounds great. I implemented it. diff Disavian (talk) 19:57, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The chronology of the Scientific Atlanta section is a bit wonky. The company was founded at the end of October 1951, then "Robinson worked as the general manager without pay for the first year" brings us to October 1952, then "Despite its rocky start, the company managed to become a success" pushes us some indeterminate amount of time into the future... but the next paragraph starts off in 1951 again. This is particularly confusing since the last sentence of the first paragraph is redundant with "his participation ensured the eventual success of Scientific Atlanta" from the second paragraph.
 * I worked a bit on that, adding specific dates where I could. Does that sound a bit better? Disavian (talk) 20:21, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Ongoing review from second FAC (now closed)
I'm posting below a chunk of text from the second FAC, containing my comments and nominator responses. I'll strike anything that is resolved and add any further comments in a section below (I didn't complete the article review before the FAC was archived). Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:46, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Comments. I will add comments here as I go through the article; I don't have much time this morning so it might be a day or two till I get through it.
 * "The federal effort ultimately failed": What federal effort? That paragraph seems to be just talking about state initiatives.
 * I see how that's not clear. Let me give you the relevant source material (emphasis mine):
 * In that year, in a move related to the ongoing federal debate on establishing engineering experiment stations with legislation similar to the Hatch Act, the Georgia General Assembly passed an act, "Establishing State Engineering Experiment Station at the Georgia School of Technology," included as Appendix B. The act set up the station for, among other purposes, the "encouragement of industries and commerce." Because the federal legislative initiative failed to create engineering experiment stations and because the state did not appropriate funds for start-up or operations, the station at Georgia Tech remained only a paper organization until 1934.
 * Disavian (talk) 05:23, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * OK, I get what you mean in the article, but I don't think I understand the source. Surely if the federal initiative to create engineering experiment stations had succeeeded, it wouldn't have been EES which would have been created, it would have been a federally funded station instead (perhaps of the same name, of course)?  If so, then perhaps we can change this sentence to "A parallel federal effort to create engineering stations failed, and the state did not finance the new station, so the EES was established in name only." Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 01:57, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The last two sentences of "Establishment" seem a bit repetitive. How about: "The Georgia Board of Regents provided the new Engineering Experiment Station with $5,000 ($449,000 in 2013), and Georgia Tech provided infrastructure and personnel.  The station started operation in April 1934."  This omits "directly", which I don't understand; what does it mean to say that the board of regents "directly" allocated the money?
 * If I had to guess, I'd say it is typical to funnel money through the various schools that comprise Georgia's university system. For the board of regents to directly allocate funds would probably be unusual but not unheard of. Your version is much clearer, though. implemented it, diff Disavian (talk) 05:36, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * "However, Bunger died not long thereafter in August 1941. (section break)  In 1940, Georgia Institute of Technology president Blake Van Leer appointed Gerald Rosselot the assistant director of the Engineering Experiment Station. Rosselot was the organization's director from 1941 to 1952."  This is a little out of chronological sequence, and slightly confusing for the reader; I can see why you did it this way but it would be nice to clean it up a little.  How about: "However, Bunger died not long thereafter in August 1941.  (section break)  Bunger's successor was Gerald Rosselot, who had been appointed assistant director by Georgia Tech president Blake Van Leer in 1940" and leave the date of the end of Rosselot's tenure to later in the narrative?
 * Well, his departure is already covered later in the article, so that works really well. diff. Disavian (talk) 04:36, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * "In 1940, Georgia Institute of Technology president Blake Van Leer": according to the article on Van Leer, he wasn't president until 1944.
 * That's a really good catch... I put the correct GT president on the GTRI article and on Rosselot's article. diff Disavian (talk) 05:46, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * "...increased support from industry and government eventually counteracted low state support." This repeats "support", and I also don't think "counteracted" is quite the right verb.  How about: "...increased support from industry and government eventually compensated for low state support", or maybe "more than compensated for", if that's the case, as it appears.
 * How's "compensated for lower state funding"? diff Disavian (talk) 04:45, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * "$240,000 ($7,055,000 in 2013)": I suggest going with -5 on the roundup parameter, to give $7.1M; -3 gives a spurious impression of precision (assuming that the $240K is itself a rounded number). The inflation template is used multiple times; I'd suggest doing the same throughout -- I think the value of the last non-zero unit in each number should be the same, relatively; that is, a 1 in the $10K column represents about 4% of $240K, but a 1 in the $1K column represents only 0.014% of $7.1M.
 * I took a stab at this and went with -4 through most of the article. If any need to be tweaked, feel free. Disavian (talk) 04:25, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * "the 1946 establishment of the Industrial Development Council, renamed to the Georgia Tech Research Institute in 1948 and to its present name, the Georgia Tech Research Corporation, in 1984": this gave me flashbacks to the James E. Boyd FAC, where this came up. That's a super-confusing name change, and I don't think you can let it pass without explanation.  I'd suggest re-using note 4 from that article, or some slight modification of it, but I also think you need to clarify things a little inline -- the reader is going to be stopped in their tracks as it stands.
 * Yeah, that was a fun FAC. I kind of miss it. Anyway, I took a stab at using the text from that note from the Boyd article in the GTRI article itself, it seemed relevant enough. diff. Disavian (talk) 04:25, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Did Rosselot resign his post because of the conflict with Emerson? At the moment it's implied but not stated.  If the sources are specific I think the article should be too.  Further down you say he "left to work for Bendix Corporation", so perhaps it wasn't because of the conflict.
 * "his participation ensured the eventual success of Scientific Atlanta and facilitated subsequent technology transfer by Georgia Tech's VentureLab and the Advanced Technology Development Center": Two things here. First, is this referring to Rosselot's participation in Scientific Atlanta?  If so, how about "his participation in Scientific Atlanta ensured its eventual success"?  Second, it's not clear what you mean by saying that his participation "facilitated subsequent technology transfer"; can you clarify?
 * "Cudd reversed this trend such that EES's 1952–53 Annual Report stated that 66 faculty in 15 schools performed research at the station that year": I don't like "such that". How about "Cudd reversed this trend&mdash;so much so that"? Or "to the extent that"?
 * Implemented: diff. Disavian (talk) 04:45, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * "made a last-minute request to the contract organization in May 1954 to cover the $20,000 deficit": will the sources support "the resulting $20,000 deficit"? And if you're inflating other dollar numbers, shouldn't you also inflate this?
 * I suppose we can inflate that one too, diff. That number is explicitly mentioned in Dress Her In White and Gold (Wallace pp. 240-241):
 * This is apparently a quote from Van Leer's 1953-54 annual report: "All of these activities resulted in creating a serious financial drain on the budget of the Station. The net result was that the surplus carried over from the previous year's operation was exhausted, and in May 1954 it became apparent that unless expenditures were reduced a serious budgetary deficit would result. Dr. Calaway took immediate and vigorous steps to meet this unexpected situation, and at the close of the fiscal year the Georgia Tech Research Institute agreed to pay slightly over $20,000, which would otherwise have been a deficit."
 * Disavian (talk) 05:28, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Struck; I added "resulting" -- I think the source makes it clear that that's the case. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:15, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:33, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * "Cold War" doesn't seem the right title for that section; it covers the period of the Cold War, but is not entirely about military research. How about "Cold War era"?
 * Mistercontributer got that one. diff. Disavian (talk) 04:45, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The sentence starting "In 1954, a faculty committee" doesn't really have anything to do with the rest of the paragraph it's currently attached to; how about moving it up to the end of the previous paragraph, which mentions budgets?
 * Mistercontributer got that one. diff. Disavian (talk) 04:45, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * "and then appointed as Director of the station from July 1, 1957 until 1961": you don't usually capitalize "Director" in this context; should it be capitalized? And how about mentioning that Calaway was the director he took over from: "and succeeded Calaway as director on July 1, 1957" -- I think you could skip the end date, since it will be covered later.
 * Hmm, I just went ahead and gave him a sentence. I might want to look to see if he did anything noteworthy that I haven't mentioned. Let's see... ENS 246 says he became the GT Chemistry Director in 1948, and ENS257 mentions him winning that Sigma Xi research prize. DHWG 240-241 mentions him taking the position after Cudd left, and that he was Director of the School of Chemistry at the time, and that he was the one that took care of that $20,000 advance from the Georgia Tech Research Institute (the contract organization) to prevent the deficit. In 1955, the Rich Electronic Computer Center, a new wing on the Hinman / Research Building was dedicated, which was paid for by $85,000 from the Rich Foundation and a matching grant from the Georgia Tech Research Institute (the contract organization). Hmm. I moved a bit of stuff around for this one. diff. Disavian (talk) 05:20, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, what do you think of adding a table of all the directors towards the end of the article, perhaps in the Organization section, in "Structure"?
 * Do you have an example of one that looks good? I'm not opposed to it. Disavian (talk) 05:20, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * "While at Georgia Tech, Boyd wrote an influential article about the role of research centers at institutes of technology, which argued that research should be integrated with education, and correspondingly involved undergraduates in his research." This needs copyediting: the subject of "argued" is the article, but the subject of "involved" ought to be Boyd, not the article.
 * Looks like we added Boyd as the subject. diff Disavian (talk) 04:45, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * It would be nice to quote the year the Applied Systems Lab was founded, instead of just saying it resulted from 1970s research -- that could place it as late as the mid-1980s.
 * "facilitated technology transfer in over 40 developing nations": I don't think this is what the source says; as far as I can see it only talks about technology transfer in Latin America and Egypt.
 * "this era began EES' role" -- a bit awkward; can you rephrase?
 * Mistercontributer came up with this phrasing: diff. Disavian (talk) 04:45, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * 'The period of student unrest in the late 1960s that resulted in protests at many university research centers that worked on contracts for the Department of Defense was not particularly seen at EES or at Georgia Tech. Long credited the school's "conservative student body" for the absence of any protests against the station's defense-related research.': how about 'The late 1960s saw a period of student unrest, and university research centers that worked on contracts for the Department of Defense were often the site of student protests. Neither Georgia Tech nor EES became the focus of protests, and Long attributed this to the school's "conservative student body"'.
 * Implemented: diff. Disavian (talk) 04:45, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * "Institute president Arthur G. Hansen's" -- Hansen wasn't a president of the GTRI, according to the navbox at the bottom, so which institute is this? Was he present of what was then called the GTRI and is now the GTRC?  I assume that's what you are referring to, but I think it needs some inline clarification.
 * He was the president of Georgia Tech, thus I changed "Institute" to "Georgia Tech". diff Disavian (talk) 05:31, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't fully understand what's meant by "completely integrate the station into Georgia Tech's academic units". Was the plan to eliminate the separate existence of the EES?  Or something else?
 * Yes, basically. Absorb it and all of the delicious money inside. Disavian (talk) 05:31, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * OK. I changed "integrate" to "absorb"; I think that better conveys the point that the EES would have ceased to exist. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 16:41, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The Technique needs to be identifed as the student paper when mentioned; the Atlanta Constitution is well enough known that I don't think it's necessary there.
 * In March 2010, Cross was named to the new position of Executive Vice President for Research for the Georgia Institute of Technology, where he oversees all research at Georgia Tech: seems odd to spell out Georgia Tech's full name again at this point, and link it again too. How about: "In March 2010, Cross was named Executive Vice President for Research, a newly created position within Georgia Tech with oversight over all research at the university"?
 * "Out of the approximately 1,050 research scientists and engineers working for GTRI in June 2011, 19% had attained a doctorate, 53% had up to a master's degree, and 28% had up to a bachelor's degree": the source has been updated to 2012 and I would suggest updating the numbers. I think "up to a" doesn't work; I think you mean "had at least a", but to me "up to a master's degree" means "had a master's degree or something less".
 * "At a given time, laboratories may work with 200 or more agencies simultaneously" is unsourced and I think might be rephrased, once you source it -- do you mean all laboraties together, or any given laboratory?
 * Thanks for taking the time to review the article. This is a pretty busy week for me, but I'll do my best to get to these. :) Disavian (talk) 05:13, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll try to complete the review by Friday. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:09, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Additional post-FAC comments
I'll add post-FAC comments to this section. -- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:48, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * "For that reason, it uses a separate contracting entity": I assume this means that GTARC is used specifically for the commercial contracts? If so, how about "For these contracts, it uses ..."?
 * "GTRI reports to the Georgia Tech Executive Vice President of Research (currently Stephen E. Cross) who currently serves as the President of GTARC": I changed the first "currently" to "as of 2013" but I'm not sure about the second one; perhaps "since "?
 * "by conducting externally sponsored, applications-oriented research programs that benefit the state, region, and nation": "benefit the state, region and nation" sounds a bit like puffery. Could this just be cut, with the first part of the sentence merged into the next sentence?
 * "that take advantage of the broad expertise within Georgia Tech's highly ranked programs": this also sounds a bit too much like straight marketing.
 * Footnote 143 ("Our interdisciplinary research centers") is a dead link. Per the checklinks tool (I haven't clicked on these myself) you should also look at these: it seems that the footnote numbering that page uses is off so you'll have to match them up.
 * OK, I've completed a pass through -- drop me a note when you've had a chance to respond to these and I'll come back and take another look. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:31, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

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