Talk:Georgiana Cavendish, Duchess of Devonshire

Untitled
It's debatable whether this move I've just made - from "Georgiana Spencer" to "Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire" - is strictly in line with the naming conventions. Since she was married twice, a good case could be made for listing her under her maiden name. However, since the publication of Amanda Foreman's prize-winning biography, I believe most people will know her by this title, and that is why I've made the move (although of course there's still a redirect at "Georgiana Spencer".Deb 21:10 Feb 21, 2003 (UTC)


 * IIRC, Georgiana wasn't married twice. The Duke, however, remaried after G's death and his second wife was, in fact, married twice.  Perhaps this is the source of the confusion? BellyOption (talk) 19:21, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Weird language
The article says her son never married and "died without issue". What the hell does that mean? Does it mean he didn't have any kids? If it means he didn't have any kids, then surely the article should say that in plain English? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.5.253.175 (talk) 06:12, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The language is perfectly plain English and its meaning is completely comprehensible to anyone who has ever read biography or done research in history. And please sign your posts. --Michael K. Smith (talk) 00:47, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I could understand that easily! I do believe it is a formal way of saying he died without children. --92.21.70.138 (talk) 13:24, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Missing details
There seem to be lots of details missing from this article - like the fact that Georgiana wrote a novel, and also that she was the head of the fashionable Devonshire House Set, who created their own 'slanguage', which had an influence on literature. There also doesn't seem to be any mention of her eye troubles, or her illegitimate child who was farmed out to be raised elsewhere, or that she was a leader of fashion. I think these are probably important details to mention, will try to find references. - A New User 9 May 07

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.69.192.136 (talk) 13:04, 9 May 2007 (UTC).

How did she die? There isn't much mention about her death and what happened right after. -- An Unregistered User —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.91.102.132 (talk) 02:37, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

She wrote at least two novels, in fact. There've been recent editions of two by Jonathan Gross: , 1773, and , 1779. I've only read the latter (it's not great, but not awful; see my review among other reviews findable on the Web; mine is way down the page linked).

The novels at Amazon: Emma and The Sylph

At archive.org: The Sylph volume I The Sylph volume II Note these are both Google Books scans, but only one is reachable via a typical search *at* Google Books. I could not find  at archive.org; at Google, a three-volume 1773 edition is represented by three scans which may be all three volumes, or may not, and there are also two scans representing a two-volume 1787 edition. None has a preview associated, and given that archive.org doesn't have them, I'm guessing maybe the scans aren't actually in the Google Books system yet.

I also agree with the original commenter that the article is needlessly vague about the very things that made her famous - her strong support, early in his career, for the eventual prime minister who was also father of her daughter; the scandals in her marriage; her central role in London Society. I get the impression that the article was started from the peerage project and then augmented (timidly) with her life in its own right, rather than started from her life and augmented with peerage stuff.

Joe Bernstein joe@sfbooks.com not a registered Wikipedian, and not at a library where I could usefully edit this article at present 97.113.62.157 (talk) 01:33, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Corrected a fact
Georgiana was never divorced from her husband. I have updated the entry on her and Earl Grey to reflect that. Also added some other information, which may or may not be useful. A New User

Move?
Should the article be at Georgiana Cavendish, Duchess of Devonshire? john k 03:24, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I do not think so, Mr. Kenney, for the surnames of the wives of peers usually are not mentioned, except in genealogical records. --Anglius 01:41, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I believe it suffices well her to be at Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire. Why is any of her surnames needed in the heading??? 217.140.193.123 1 July 2005 10:38 (UTC)

It was more an effort to maintain consistency with other articles on peeresses than anything else. If we're going to move her back, I'd prefer that we come to some consensus on naming policy for peeresses, in general. (It should be noted that some peeresses, at least, are known by their married surname from the time before they inherited the title.) john k 1 July 2005 16:59 (UTC)

Let's see. Am I correct in believing that there is consensus and a STATED policy that male peers are basically firstname surname, ordinal title peeragename. ???  If so, then a peeress suo jure should also be firstname surname, ordinal title peeragename. (Is this already a policy?) Then, a nice thing to distinguish between peeresses suo jure and for example her daughter-in-law, the wife of the successor, would be a policy to deny the "surname" from peeresses by marriage: firstname, feminizedtitle peeragename. Regarding peeresses by marriage who are famous already before husband's accession (is that a small number of women?), some of them apparently used the feminized courtesy title. Mostly only those whose husbands got ennobled after a career (both known by husband's surname) are the relevant group of persons whose famousness is both by husband's surname and later by husband's peerage. Well, my suggestion for those is that they get here the policy of "firstname, feminizedtitle peeragename" as heading, and the text explains the names in different stages of life, AND a redirect links from page Mrs "firstname surname". It's just too bad if someone wants the husband's surname - anyway the USED names of those persons are a mess of developments, because, after all, it changed when the husband got peerage, and it also had changed (though usually not from a famous one) when the woman married and took the husband's surname. 217.140.193.123 1 July 2005 20:45 (UTC)

We distinguish suo jure peeresses from ordinary peeresses by use of the ordinal. Personally, I don't see as it matters so long as we have a redirect. But I'd suggest proposing it on the names and titles page rather than trying to do it on a one by one basis. john k 1 July 2005 21:49 (UTC)

Note that the majority of links to this page are still coming via the old title. Deb 2 July 2005 20:01 (UTC)

Relationship to Diana, Princess of Wales
Some sources state that Diana is descended from her; some state that Diana is descended from her brother. This article doesn't make it clear: near the top of the article, it mentions a niece, then that Diana is a descendent - is she a descendant of her or the niece? Can someone please clarify the exact relationship between the subject and Diana, including how many generations apart the two aristocratic women were.Werdnawerdna (talk) 18:06, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * If you go to RootsWeb and do a search on the two names, you'll find the lineage laid out in great detail. --Michael K. Smith (talk) 00:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The History Channel (article here) declares that Georgiana is an ancestor of Diana. They're usually pretty accurate, but not infallible. Everything is infallible. MagnoliaSouth (talk) 16:02, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Relationship to Marie Antoinette in Debts?
Why is there a sentence about Georgiana's "natural relationship" underneath the gambling a debts section? Surely there is a more suitable place for this information, like under biography. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.119.176.119 (talk) 15:37, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Actions of the Duke of Devonshire after Georgiana's death
I have removed the comment which said that the Duke set up a mistress after his marriage to Bess Foster. There is no evidence for this.

In Amanda Foreman's biography of Georgiana, it is stated that shortly before their marriage, the Duke and Bess made friends with a Mrs Spencer, a young woman who had married an impecunious rake from the Churchill side of the Spencer family. After the marriage, Georgiana's daughter Harryo remarked that her father's phaeton was seen outside Mrs Spencer's door every day 'sometimes past 8'. However, according to Foreman "the Duke did not live long enough for Mrs Spencer to become a serious threat".

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Inconsistency
The first line of the section 'Georgiana Cavendish in popular culture' contradicts an earlier statement in the section 'Husband and Children' regarding Sheridan's 'School for Scandal'. Which is correct the movie 'The Duchess' implies it is the first statement. Can someone clarify? The article on School for Scandal does not mention Georgiana at all. --Gramscis cousinTalkStalk 10:05, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

"a daughter" Cavendish?
Hi, in the Husband and Children section, there is a reference to [a daughter] Cavendish. I think this should be taken out; I am fairly certain that little G was her first surviving child, and this is supposed to be about her surviving children, as the miscarriages she had were noted previously. I am going to remove it. Sassy molassy (talk) 20:26, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

"raped by her husband"
Also in the Husband and Children section is a line about Georgiana being raped by the Duke because of her affair with Grey. I find no reference to a rape in Foreman's book; this seems like a spicy detail taken from the movie rather than an actual fact, and I think it should be removed. Sassy molassy (talk) 20:40, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

New file File:Georgiana (Spencer), Duchess of Devonshire by Sir Joshua Reynolds.jpg
Recently the file File:Georgiana (Spencer), Duchess of Devonshire by Sir Joshua Reynolds.jpg (right) was uploaded and it appears to be relevant to this article and not currently used by it. If you're interested and think it would be a useful addition, please feel free to include it.Although there are many portraits in the article, this one shows her as a child circa 1759-1761 and so may have particular use. Dcoetzee 12:04, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

The Duchess (2008) "played by"
The "Film Portrayal" section says "The Duchess (2008), played by Anna pimentel" when in fact Keira Knightly played Georgiana in that movie. I have corrected this. --TheEldris (talk) 20:52, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation of Georgiana?
What is the justification for the pronunciation "jor-JAY-nə" ? I know the recent Kiera Knightley film uses this, but I always thought the name was pronounced "jor-jee-ahna" Redcliffe maven (talk) 21:42, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

In Amanda Foremans biography, Georgiana Duchess of Devonshire, she explains that the Dukes family (the Cavendishes) all had "a peculiar drawl which marred their speech - they pronounced her name 'George-ayna'." (P30) Thornpip (talk) 10:00, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

2016 expansion and revision
I submitted an edit of expansion and revision to the article on 17 June 2016. I took care to do so most accordingly. If there is issue(s) to address, please inform me so that I may do so. Hpfan1 (talk) 19:06, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

New poem by Georgiana discovered
https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/english/news/unlocking-private-life-georgiana-duchess-devonshire-through-her-poetry 78.149.219.14 (talk) 22:39, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Gainsborough painting reproduction
I have a reproduction of the painting. Grannie gave it to Grandad as a gift. 141.164.115.142 (talk) 02:03, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Which Lady Spencer?
Which Lady Spencer is being referred to in the third paragraph of 'Early life and family': Georgiana, then Lady Spencer, or her mother Margeret, Countess Spencer? A.D.Hope (talk) 19:52, 16 April 2024 (UTC)