Talk:German cruiser Lützow (1939)

Old talk
could someone clean up the grammar and sentence structure in the sections "Construction at the Soviet Union" and "Soviet Navy Service"? While informative it appears these sections were added by a non-English speaker so it's a little hard to understand.199.1.137.105 (talk)

Stub or not?
Not sure about this. The ship has v little history so there's not much to say. On the other hand, it needs refs and it could be filled out. Folks at 137 14:19, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Source misused

 * With this edits added several statements and facts which does not match the source text itself - . Thanks Jo0doe (talk) 10:03, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Data, facts need to be fixed

 * As a part of the 1939 Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact between the German Reich and the Soviet Union, Lützow was sold incomplete to the Soviet Union in 1939
 * doxen of google books give spring 1940 (April 11) as also DOCUMENTS ON GERMAN FOREIGN POLICY 1918-1945 SERIES D (1937-1945)

VOLUME VIII THE WAR YEARS September 4, 1939-March 18, 1940 UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE WASHINGTON * 1954
 * Stalin believed the Lützow to be important because of its new 203-mm naval guns, along with their performance characteristics
 * incorrect per source above . Note Stalin words- Корабль, купленный у предполагаемого противника, равен двум: на один больше у нас и на один меньше у врага (ship, which you've bought from expected enemy is equal to two ships - one more at you and one less at enemy). So soviet procurement comission submit to Germans - Besides the hulls of the cruisers Seydlitz and Lützow the final

order list also includes the delivery of the cruiser Prinz Eugen and the plans of the battleship Bismarck.
 * German pocket battleship Deutschland in November 1939
 * Renamed after Dec 1939


 * The incomplete Lützow was towed to Leningrad in mid-1940 in a less complete state than the Soviets had anticipated.
 * Per German–Soviet Commercial Agreement (1940) it should be delivered 80 percent ready but "The Führer desires to delay as long as possible giving plans of

the Bismarck class as well as the hull of the Lutzow to Russia, since he hopes to avoid this altogether if the war develops favorably. (per "Führer Conferences on Naval Affairs 1939-1945," Naval Annual, 1948, p. 79, or more recent edition )
 * Petropavlovsk after the Soviet city
 * named after the battle of Petropavlovsk in the Crimean War,


 * The Soviets used her as a floating gun battery for seven days against German invaders
 * From 7 to 17-18 Of September -it's 10/11 days


 * she sank upright in shallow waters in Kronstadt Bay on 17th September 1941
 * at Call Harbor (Leningrad Trade Port's area).


 * The Soviets raised the ship by September 17, 1942 and renamed her Tallinn
 * floated 10 September and towed to Baltic Shipyard were she at night September 16/17 docked.
 * September 1 1944 cruiser is renamed to Tallin.


 * battleship Marat having been named Petropavlovsk by this point
 * 31 May 1943 Jo0doe (talk) 21:57, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Data, facts needs to be added

 * A story how she was purchased
 * A story how she was build as "cruiser L" at Baltic Shipyard
 * A story about the crew which was numbered more then thousand before June 22 1941
 * Exapand an operational history 1941-1944- Baltic Fleet Admiral Vladimir Tributs memoirs with details about Petropavlovsk here Jo0doe (talk) 22:05, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Rename Suggestion
The name Lutzov and the time service with German Navy is short, while most of the time (1940-1944) it named Petropavlovsk and served with Soviet Navy until 1958. I suggest move this article to the new name: Soviet cruiser Petropavlovsk. Dieu2005 (talk) 03:44, 6 May 2011 (UTC)


 * But the ship was only Petropavlovsk from September 1940 until the fall of 1943, when she was renamed Tallinn. However, the ship is frequently referred to as Lützow in English language sources (probably due to a pro-German anti-Soviet Union bias), so the name should probably be retained as is. Redirects will still get readers to the appropriate article. The (Hipper class) disambiguation needs to go, however, as this is contrary to standard WP:SHIPS naming conventions. Parsecboy (talk) 02:23, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Article rewrite
I don't know if anyone is watching this article, but I'm working on a rewrite of the article here. If anyone wants to assist in the effort, feel free to add material, but please ensure any information added is sourced reliably and in a consistent formatting. Thanks. Parsecboy (talk) 19:00, 21 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, I've mostly finished the rewrite, so I've moved over the new version of the article. I need to pick up a copy of Philbin's The Lure of Neptune from the OSU library, as only part of the book is viewable in Google Books. At that point, the article will probably be ready for WP:GAN. Parsecboy (talk) 02:40, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Link to Otto Feige
the link goes to the wrong person!91.14.33.209 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:55, 29 November 2016 (UTC)