Talk:Germanicus

Untitled
I have a huge doubt about Germanicus: his name. I have looked all the sources and in the internet for his real name and found nothing. Germanicus is the nickname the senate gave him after the successes in Germania. Anyone knows? Muriel Gottrop

about Germanicus' real name, it is supposed to have been Tiberius Claudius Nero Germanicus (he inherited his father's triumphal name) before his addoption by the future emperor Tiberius. drusus might have named his son this way and his brother named his first son after him in response to this. after addoption his name appears in the historic sources as Germanicus Caesar.

Praenomen
"Tiberius" was the praenomen of Germanicus's younger brother (later the Emperor Claudius).

67.185.114.32 21:18, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Both brothers were given the praenomen "Tiberius", in honour of their uncle. The man we called Germanicus had the cognomen "Nero", and the man we call Claudius had the cognomen "Drusus"; until Germanicus was adopted by Tiberius and became a Caesar, whereupon Claudius took on the cognomen of Nero.

Interestingly, the tripartite naming scheming for Roman boys seems to have been abandoned by the Julio-Claudians (tho' the women were still named traditionally) after Gaius Julis Caesar his adoptive son & heir Augustus.

Germanicus, the brother of Emperor Claudius I, was given the name at birth (tho he later earned it with his victories over the Germans in vengeance for the massacre in the Teutoburgerwald.

Germanicus was not named a "Caesar." The use of the title "Caesar" for the heir apparent did not appear until the Later Empire when it became the title given to the heir (blood or adoptive) of the Emperor (called the Augustus).

The system (the tetrarchy was formalized by Diocletian (284-305). He appointed a colleague, thus creating a dyarchy (tho' in reality, the Diocletian was the senior), with both Augusti appointing Caesars as aids and successors.  The system only worked once, when Diocletian and Maximian abdicated and the Caesars Constantius "Chlorus" and Galerius succeeded them.  Only temporarily, as everyone knows.  The civil wars would resume with the death of Constantius I Chlorus, ending only 18 years later with the victory of the great Constantine and the establishment of Christianity...

PainMan 01:34, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Assassinated?
"...Drusus Caesar and Nero Caesar, assassinated by Tiberius..."

This is a bit of an overstatement. Someone with editing powers needs to rephrase this.

PCB

Do people feel that Germanicus was assasinated? If so do you reckon it was all the doing of Piso or did Piso receive instructions for the death of Germanicus from Tiberius?

by ????

Do people feel that Germanicus was assasinated? If so do you reckon it was all the doing of Piso or did Piso receive instructions for the death of Germanicus from Tiberius? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stevol (talk • contribs) 12:57, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Robert Graves certainly thought he was murdered; as anyone whose read or seen I, Claudius realizes. And no one disputes Graves' achievements as a classicist.

Graves' sources is Suetonius. I think it also fits in with a pattern: every one of Augustus' blood or adoptive heirs died before he did; i.e.: Marcellus, Gaius, Lucius and Postumus Agrippa; Marcus Agrippa, father of the last three, despite his very humble, plebian origians, it's clear that between 23BCE & 13BCE had Augustus died, Agrippa would have wielded supreme power, probably as some sort of "regent" for his sons, it would have been interesting to see what fig leaf the Julio-Claudians would have covered that with!

Upon Augustus' death, the younger Agrippa was murdered by Livia or Tiberius; leaving only the latter, his stepson by Livia, to suceed him. It was put about that Augustus' will had ordered the execution. As with so many details of Roman history, this must remain the provence of inference & supposition. However, people are convicted on circumstantial evidence everyday...

Even given the low life expectancy of the Roman era (the average is thought to have been in the 20s) cannot account for so many deaths. The situation curiously foreshadows what happened to Louis XIV's heirs; all of his heirs except the infant Louis XV died suspiciously close together--at the same time a series of poisonings and suspected poisonings were occurring among the highest nobility. When the inquiry appeared on the verge of implicating Louis' chief mistress Madame de Montespan, he quashed the investigation, destroyed the evidence and had a well-known poison maker burnt alive.

PainMan 00:53, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

"Even given the low life expectancy of the Roman era (the average is thought to have been in the 20s) cannot account for so many deaths. "

Why not ? Augustus died at 77 years old, which was quite rare at that time except for tiberius, no other roman emperor lived that long, even for those who died of natural cause (by the way, Louis XIV died at around the same age). And Rome was considered quite an unhealthy region at that time, especially in the summer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.147.6.38 (talk) 12:22, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Negative Assessment
David Shotter, in his biography of Tiberius, gives a more negative assessment of Germanicus' character and achievements than does this article. I have amended and added to reflect this view. Please do not edit these changes without citing secondary sources (Tacitus and Suetonius need to be taken critically). --Iacobus 02:41, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Agnomen "Claudianus"
Following Germanicus' adoption by Tiberius and the name change resultant on his transferral from the gens Claudia into the gens Julia, he was known thereafter only as Germanicus Julius Caesar. He did not bear the agnomen "Claudianus". I have edited appropriately. 82.44.82.167 (talk) 00:52, 2 January 2008 (UTC) Catiline63

Please do not revert to include the name agnomen Claudianus - Germanicus never bore the name. From his birth in 16/15 BC to the death of his father in 9 BC, he was named Nero Claudius Drusus (less likely Tiberius Claudius Nero). From 9 BC until his adoption in AD 4, he was Nero Claudius Drusus Germanicus (again, less likely Tiberius Claudius Nero Germanicus). From his adoption to his death in AD 19, he was Germanicus Julius Caesar.

The most basic books on the Julio-Claudian family will attest to Germanicus nomenclature (e.g. Robin Seager's "Tiberius" (1975); B. Levick's "Tiberius: The Politician" (1976); and Anthony Barrett's "Caligula: the Corruption of Power" (1986), to name but three of the more accessible - and professional - works). If you have a reputable reference for "Germanicus Claudianus" please give it - you have an important discovery on your hands! 82.44.82.167 (talk) 16:00, 10 January 2008 (UTC)Catiline63

Year of birth not certain
This is disputed. While the date is known to be 24 May, the year may be either 16 BC (thus B. Levick (1966) Drusus Caesar and the adoptions of AD 4. Latomus 25: 227-255) or 15 BC (thus G.V. Sumner (1967) Germanicus and Drusus Caesar. Latomus 26: 413-423). I have edited to reflect this. 82.44.82.167 (talk) 16:13, 10 January 2008 (UTC)Catiline63

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008
Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 17:54, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Removing assessment of German campaign
"Germanicus was a fool in the eyes of Tiberius and the senate which feared the Germans undescribably. But in the eyes of the citizens of Rome, the soldiers of Rome, and the commanders under and above Germanicus he was a brilliant strategist. By contradicting the bureaucrats and invading Germania, Germanicus Ceasar was the only commander of Rome to ever pass the Rhine and come back successful."

I have excised the above text from the article because it is unreferenced, poorly written, and contradicts the assessment of the only referenced source for the article (David Shotter's book on Tiberius). Please do not include this assessment in article without citing a secondary source.--Iacobus (talk) 05:43, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

This needs to be removed:
"...but Tiberius' jealousy and fear of his cousin's popularity and increasing power was the true motive."

Its pure speculation and assumption. Tiberius allowed Germanicus a Triumph, he was given control of whole easter part of the empire and was considered his heir. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.143.115.86 (talk) 10:19, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Germanicus was born in Rome
He was born in Lugdunum, Gaul [...] is false.

Sources:


 * The Oxford companion to German literature. Page: 275


 * Looting of Bones in the Teutoburg Forest. Page: 102


 * Enciclopedia Italiana. Germànico, Giulio Cesare --Davide41 (talk) 22:28, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

How many eagles?
The lead suggests Germanicus recovered all three of the eagles lost at Teutoburg, but by the end of paragraph three, when he is recalled by Tiberius, he had only found two. --217.155.32.221 (talk) 10:40, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Fixed. --217.155.32.221 (talk) 09:25, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Original
Is he related to the original Julius Caesar? Mac Dreamstate (talk) 18:19, 4 November 2020 (UTC)


 * His adoptive father was Tiberius, his adoptive grandfather was Augustus, and his adoptive great-grandfather was Julius Caesar. Through a series of adoptions. Dimadick (talk) 20:47, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I had this question too. Thanks for answering. I went ahead and added it to the article. – Novem Linguae (talk) 09:50, 10 February 2021 (UTC)