Talk:Germans in Czechoslovakia (1918–1938)

New to headers?
Where are these statistics from? Source?

constitution
The constitution of 1920 was drafted without Sudeten German representation - but this have simply reason - noone of Sg was fighting for independent czechoslovakia.

Regarding "some sources for ignorants"
How come none of the given sources provide any page references? If you have actually read the works surely you can provide page references for where the provided sources state that:

and
 * 1 Lord Runciman was a quote "faithful appeaser" end-quote.
 * 2 "His mission failed because, on Hitler's command, Sudeten German Party refused all conciliating proposals."

The speed with which you provided the names of the books, but without being able to provide page references, is in my eyes suspicious.--Stor stark7 Talk 20:53, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

250.000 Germans killed
During the expulsion in 1945 about 250.000 Germans were slaughtered by Czech franctireurs (much more than Czechs died during the whole war), most of them woman and children. I think this is worth mentioning in this article.


 * Realistic numbers are in interval 10-25 thousands. Victims from Czech lands (Czechs and Jews) was cca ten times more. But it is possible, that you counted in your number all causalities of Sudeten Germans in Wehrmacht in all ww2. But it is not fair play, IMHO. --Cinik (talk) 15:58, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Informations to the "Lager Hodolein" near Olomouc ("Olmütz") in 1946
I am looking für the article Dr. Walter Staffa in the german Wikipedia for informations to the Hodolein-camp near Olomouc (in this time called too Olmütz). Which persons where in the camp? Normal members of the german "Wehrmacht", normal people called "Sudetendeutsche", or members of organisations of Konrad Henlein oder NSDAP-members? Any information is warmly welcomed. Please inform me in the '''german" Wikipedia, under member "Nup". Thanks!

Nup (talk) 10:38, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

== Request for help for the article about the far right Dr. "Walter Staffa"; Nürtingen, Germany, and the article "Deutsches Seminar" (a extrem right organisation) and the article "Sudetendeutsche" in the german wikipedia - revisionistic difficulties in case of my edits there ==

Please help to let win the truth in this articles. Look the german Wikipedia under "Walter Staffa", "Olomouc", "Deutsches Seminar" and "Sudetendeutsche". Look to my edits and my diffulties. Please contact and/or help me, but under the german "Wikipedia", I am there "Nup" too!

Please help to let win the truth in this articles. Look the german Wikipedia under "Walter Staffa", "Olomouc", "Deutsches Seminar" and "Sudetendeutsche". Look to my edits and my diffulties. Please contact and/or help me, but under the german "Wikipedia", I am there "Nup" too!

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diskussion:Sudetendeutsche#Ganzer_Zeitabschnitt_fehlt_.281918_bis_1944.21.21.21.21.21.21.21.29

http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Olomouc&diff=39465342&oldid=39462962

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:L%C3%B6schkandidaten/24._November_2007#Walter_Staffa

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Staffa

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olm%C3%BCtz

Thanks in advice for helping

Thanks

Nup (talk) 10:38, 28 November 2007 (UTC) Please answer and/or act in the german wikipedia!

Fair use rationale for Image:Sudetendeutsche kratzau bohemia.JPG
Image:Sudetendeutsche kratzau bohemia.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

The Norwegian bomber and killer Andres Breivik uses the expulsion of the Germans and especially of the Sudeten Germans (Benes Decrees) as a role model for the expulsion of Muslims from Europe. Every user wants to be informed in a neutral way. This is not often the case in Wikipedia.--85.181.150.2 (talk) 11:11, 29 July 2011 (UTC) Andres Breivik was obviously incited by aggressive and biased information against Sudeten Germans in Wikipedia. German media are investigating.--92.228.179.227 (talk) 11:02, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

12th vs 14th century
The article says that S. Germans lived in Sudeten since 12th century. This is true only for few areas - notably Cheb. 99% of the German immigration occurred during 14th during the mining boom. --Jirka6 (talk) 05:07, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Whether it be 12th or 14th century, the mass expulsion of millions of people based upon some Medieval philosophy of "communal guilt" is a moral wrong, any other preceding moral wrongs notwithstanding (use your English translator to gain the nuances in the wording). Both Yalta and Potsdam left room for humanitarian interpretations in the so-called "mass transfers", as to selection criteria and the absurd "orderly and humane" mechanism.  As with the Polish experience in their role in the equivalent endeavor, there seems to be a group of Phantom Czechs that actually implemented the proceedings, and then they magically disappeared.  These Phantom Czechs were of course morally corrupt, but since they magically disappeared there obviously is no purpose in wondering who they really were.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by ANNRC (talk • contribs) 03:39, 20 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe, but that has nothing to do with the centuries. --Jirka6 (talk) 04:06, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

What does the map mean?
Is there some threshold? There were Germans living in Prague, yet it is not marked. Or is it with more than 50%? What is the source?? --Jirka6 (talk) 17:24, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

The German Jewish culture was prevailing for a very long time. Before the expulsion of the Germans one third of the Bohemian population was German. This was about the number of Germans, too, in Prague in 1945.In times before there had been more Germans.--92.224.205.203 (talk) 17:35, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Page links to itself
The link in the introduction called Sudeten Germans links to a redirect to this article, so it is a pointless link (I don't know if it should be removed). 92.11.22.186 (talk) 06:53, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Czechs willingly leaving and selling property - A better source?
A recent edit by User:Mikeo1938 added the following text:


 * With the establishment of German rule, hundreds of thousands of Czechs who (under the policy of ‘Czechification’) had moved into the Sudetenland after 1919 left the area – more or less willingly. They were, however, permitted to take away their possessions and to legally sell their houses and land. Some Czechs, however, remained.

The reference points to the website - it is a website of the Deutschen Böhmerwaldbund e.V (roughly the German Bohemian Forest Club), not really an authoritative source (an maybe biased). Is there a better source for this statement? Whether by German or Czech or other historians? Moreover, not all ethnic Czechs that left moved in after 1919. Many (but not all) areas had a large ethnic Czech population that lived there for centuries, sometimes longer than the ethnic-Germans. --Jirka6 (talk) 14:32, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * OK ... well, I did wonder about the source myself.

My addition was prompted, I must confess, by anecdotal evidence acquired this very weekend from a lady who, as a teenager, had been forced to leave South Bohemia in October 1946. She told me that after 1938 she had seen Czechs standing en masse with their belongings at the railway station at Krumau (now Český Krumlov) waiting to be moved out of South Bohemia. A Google search brought up the citation which I provided.

The forced removal of ethnic Germans after WW2 is well known, but this was the first I had heard of any forced departure of Czechs from South Bohemia.

I will continue to search for other evidence and hope that others may also be able to contribute.

M Mikeo1938 (talk) 20:06, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

After the foundation of the Czechoslovakian Republic after World War 1 the Czech government sent Czechs into the border areas which were largely settled by Germans to force Czech culture and language on the people there. They left the Sudetenland when Hitler invaded it. My hometown in Northern Bohemia had 95 % German population. In my family nobody spoke Czech--92.224.205.203 (talk) 17:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * No wonder, during the Habsburg misrule of the Czech Lands (Bohemia, Moravia and Czech Silesia), the Czech language was removed from public administration and higher education.

--Posp68 (talk) 08:09, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Split
There's a ton of content here but a lot of it is duplicated in other articles such as: Sudeten Germans and Carpathian Germans. All three are not required and since this is an odd-ball with 2 articles Frankenstein-ed together this one should go. Terrible title for an article too. --Hutcher (talk) 03:51, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I also suggest to split the article into Sudeten Germans, German Bohemians and Carpathian Germans. German Bohemians is a political neutral and widely accepted expression for the German speaking population of the Czech Lands, while many of them do not feel comfortable to be adressed as Sudeten Germans. --91.61.57.66 (talk) 15:30, 30 April 2011 (UTC) Horst


 * Rationale for split is not clear. Might it be more appropriate that Sudeten Germans and/or Carpathian Germans are merged into this article? This request is now over a year old. If a split is still thought to be necessary, a fresh discussion, with a clear rationale would be useful.  SilkTork   ✔Tea time  22:00, 7 February 2012 (UTC)


 * The article isn't too long and I don't see a need for split. Could improve links with related articles, but it's a logical unit to consider. --Colapeninsula (talk) 17:17, 8 March 2012 (UTC)


 * It's possible that split is a misnomer, This article has at some time obviously been copied from Sudeten Germans or vice versa. The 2 subjects are effectively synonymous and so the article need to be re-merged in effect. The split tag covers the miniscule amount of content that ought to go in Carpathian Germans. If, when the process is complete, it is felt that Sudeten Germans if not the best title for the article then by all means I will start a discussion to decide what to do. Op47 (talk) 22:21, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

plan for rebuilding the article on sound bases
There was obviously a problem with the former article as most parts of it were duplicated on the Sudeten Germans and Sudetenland and German Bohemia pages. But Germans in interwar Czechoslovakia were not only the Sudeten Germans, so there is a need to put at least some basic informations in this reduced article. For instance, more detailed demographics (I mùostly think of cities like e.g. Brno/Brünn), German culture in CS (Kafka and the others), but also the election results table because it concerns the whole of CS, not just the Sudetenland. --Minorities observer (talk) 03:10, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Maps
Some unknown contributor on Commons ("Kostěj", also unknown on wikipedia) wrote 3 years ago on the Commons talk page that this map is inaccurate in comparison with another one based on the Czechoslovak census. Nowhere is it stated that the map would come from "Nazi source", moreover the two maps are not substantially different but one is in English, the other one in Czech and this is en.wikipedia, not cz.wikipedia. The map's author is Henry Mühlpfordt (User:Wimox), no one asked him on which data he made the map. Anyway, the Czech map is inaccurate as, following the ideological bias of the Prague government, it did not distinguish between Czech and Slovak languages and ethnonationalities. --Minorities observer (talk) 08:42, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello, thanks for the WikiMail. I would like to help, but I did not create this map. It is a derivated work of this file: File:Czechoslovakia1930linguistic.jpg. I converted it into an vector image as it was on a list of files which were wished to be converted. From my side, this file contains more Inkscape knowledge than knowledge on the topic itself. Wimox (talk) 00:45, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

I wrote a message on the talk page of the initial map's author on Commons:
 * The svg version of the map you created in 2008 File:Czechoslovakia1930linguistic.jpg is considered by two (Czech) contributors ("Volunteer Marek" and "Cimmerian praetor") as not reliable, dubious, or even "POV map apparently based on interwar Nazi sources" (see Germans in Czechoslovakia (1918–1938): Revision history. Could you tell from wich source(s) it was drawn ? Thanks. --Minorities observer (talk) 08:19, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

There is also another linguistic map from 1930, but, none available for Carpathian Germans. --Minorities observer (talk) 08:25, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

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