Talk:Gerry Rafferty/Archive 1

Untitled
I'm not sure the information about Max Rafferty being Gerry's son is correct. What's the source, or who would know more about it?

Get It Right Next Time is also played a lot on Radio 2. -88.110.3.223 17:13, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Songwriting style
There should be at least a passing message about his songwriting style in that most of his songs tell a story and have few if any repeated verses, even in the chorus (baker street is a great example of this). --24.183.185.153 (talk) 15:02, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * We could do quite a bit on this. Musically-his style, his amazingly ability to arrange songs etc. Lyrically-how his songs were often autobiographical and inspired by events/places/people around him. I've tried to work in a few references connecting his songs to events in his life (e.g. the stories behind City to City, Shipyard Town, Mattie's Rag), but we might add more if it doesn't make the article too unwieldy. 82.71.0.229 (talk) 20:39, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Disappearance
I'm a little concerned with the disappearance section of the article, the actual true outcome seems rather cloudy. Spud Hai/watidone 03:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I have done quite a bit of work on the Personal life section, adding in much more about the newspaper reports of GR's alcholism and trying to weave it all together into a coherent narrative. I do hope I have improved it and that that's OK with everyone. I apologise for the massive number of edits, but I don't think I've actually deleted any previous work at all so I hope it doesn't cause any offence. 82.71.0.229 (talk) 23:42, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Last album
The Guardian article linked to at the end says he never made his promised last album, but this article says he did. Was the Guardian writer just talking nonsense? Orlando098 (talk) 22:25, 6 January 2011 (UTC)


 * GR released "Life Goes On" in Autumn 2009, which was a compilation of previously released/remixed material and a few unreleased songs (largely recorded during the Another World period, I believe, and familiar to followers of the GR website, where they were originally available as free downloads). That's the album referred to in this article. Despite various suggestions that he was working on new material, nothing "new" surfaced. 82.71.0.229 (talk) 11:12, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Copyright photos
I've just removed the photo of Gerry from the Night Owl recording sessions that was posted here. The photo claims to be public domain having been posted by a Russian (?) user. It is a copyright image taken by Robert Ellis c.1979 for the Night Owl recording sessions at Chipping Norton Studios. Unless Robert Ellis or the copyright holder has granted permission (and no grant of permission is noted on the image), the image does not belong here. 82.71.0.17 (talk) 08:05, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

place of death
I think he died in Poole. See thisisdorset.net from Jan 5th. Regards, --Wolf-Dieter (talk) 23:14, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The article is correct. Upton, Dorset is immediately adjoining Poole, but is in the Purbeck local government area.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 23:57, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
 * It's a bloody awkward one, that (I know, I used to live there). Although administratively it's in Purbeck as far as urban development and social links are concerned it's a suburb of Poole, being at the west end of the Christchurch - Bournemouth - Poole conurbation that runs almost from New Milton to Wareham. If you were looking for it on a map Poole would be more useful than Purbeck, which covers a large area of mainly countryside. Britmax (talk) 14:25, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * It turns out the place of death was wrong anyway: GR died in Stroud at his daughter's home, though he was hospitalized in Bournemouth after collapsing while living with his fiancee, Enzina Fuschini in Upton, near Poole, which is administratively (though not geographically) part of Purbeck. The discrepancy between these two places - Dorset and Gloucestershire - may be explained by a Mirror article (31 Jan 2011) "My love for Gerry Rafferty", where Ms Fuschini tells her story, in particular the final sentence: "I desperately wanted to be by his beside when he died but I was prevented from doing so." 82.71.0.229 (talk) 14:16, 11 February 2011 (UTC) I have unearthed a little bit more about the final part of this story, alleging that there was, shall we say, tension between the parties concerned) that we can't go into in the article unless someone makes a public comment about it that can be properly sourced/referenced. I also understand that GR and EF were living in Branksome Park, Bournemouth at the time of his collapse, not in the house in Upton, Poole, which had apparently been sold. That would explain why he was admitted to hospital in Bournemouth rather than Poole, which has its own large hospital. 82.71.0.229 (talk) 19:42, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Disenchantment with music industry
The quote is nice, but we need a bit more about this, and probably its own section, noting his refusal to tour, etc. It would also be interesting to contrast his position on this with his thoughts, feelings, and ideas about music and what it means to be a musician who makes music. Viriditas (talk) 00:20, 6 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay, I have gone ahead and written quite a lengthy new section on Attitude to the Music Industry. It needs some cleaning up of reference format etc but hopefully it's a start. Hope you all like it and can knock it into shape 82.71.0.229 (talk) 12:32, 22 February 2011 (UTC)


 * There is a little bit of new info about this (or rather, confirmation of what is already known) from Martha Rafferty in an interview from 14 August 2011:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2011/08/14/gerry-rafferty-s-daughter-opens-heart-on-how-baker-street-destroyed-her-dad-86908-23344048 82.71.0.229 (talk) 17:10, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

82.71.0.229 (talk) 17:11, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Further improvements
What else can we do to improve this article? More photos to help break up the text would be great, if there are any copyright-free ones we can use (I couldn't find much CC-licensed material on Flickr). I have added the Baker Street sign because it was already available. Could also add photos of places that were important in GR's life, e.g. Paisley, Hartfield, etc.?

How about a list of cover versions of GR songs too? There must have been numerous covers of Baker Street, also covers of The Right Moment (by Barbara Dickson and Olivia Newton John), and perhaps Stealers Wheel songs?

Any other suggestions for improvements? 82.71.0.229 (talk) 11:20, 24 February 2011 (UTC)


 * You (or anyone) could nominate it at Good article nominations, and see what advice is offered from there. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:23, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

I think an image of one of GR's famous album covers designed by John Byrne would be ideal for the article. Would there be a copyright issue in replicating it? John Byrne designed a cover for GR that wasn't actually used, it was published in the Herald (formerly "Glasgow Herald") as a two page spread after GR passed away and that would be a fitting and appropriate addition to the article if it could be obtained. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.26.110.185 (talk) 02:08, 4 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I seem to remember John Byrne's cover artwork has been in and out of this article a few times. Added, deleted, added, deleted!... Strictly speaking, they are all copyright images so not allowed on Wikipedia. But you (or someone else) could obtain formal permission to use them. I presume the copyright is owned by EMI or John Byrne himself. It would be great if we could use one of those images with permission because, as you say, they are so personal, fitting, and (IMHO) quite brilliant. 82.71.0.229 (talk) 19:23, 11 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Finally got round to nominating for "good article" status. Let's see what feedback comes back! :) 82.71.0.229 (talk) 16:24, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Can I have my money back?
We seem to have a bit of back-and-forth on the date for this album. Is it 71/72? Well... if you check out the disc label image from Discogs, it's 1971. See this image: http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=1505192 82.71.0.229 (talk) 21:39, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Will and legal dispute over estate
A comment is needed on this section of the Rafferty page. After all the vandalism regarding the Fuschini page, I would like to call for correctness amongst us all. I think only published information should be listed here, in order to avoid terrible confusion. The vandalistic comments inserted by the now deleted user "Marthamaryrafferty" on the Fuschini and Rafferty pages, correctly deleted because against any Wikipedia standard, cannot be inserted back on an official Wikipedia Page as reliable sources. It is not even clear wether this user/editor was actually a family member, there cannot be any identification. Or does somebody have some more information on that issue which he/she doesn't want to reveal?..........

Up to now, the legal documents related to this case are not public if I understand well. Therefore, a summary of the real facts cannot be given, only information on published interviews with the involved persons. Lets not become Wikipedia an instrument for a legal battle and make sure we as objective editors will not be involved.

--Jpvandijk (talk) 11:13, 13 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I suspected you were going to delete this (!), but I agree with you 100% this time and support you. I have searched for definitive information about this case and found nothing. I did think of trying to contact Martha Rafferty and asking her whether she was indeed the person identified as "marthamaryrafferty", but I really don't wish to get involved. At some point, either the Raffertys or Enzina Fuschini will make a public statement and we can add the information then. Ghmyrtle left a comment on the talk page of "marthamaryrafferty" pointing out WP:COI and inviting her to revert her edits, but if she were a new user, I doubt she would have noticed it. I reverted those of her edits that seemed (IMHO) unacceptable and left those that seemed reasonable.
 * Since you have brought up the subject, I would also like to find information about the rumour that Enzina Fuschini was allegedly denied access to the hospital where Rafferty was being treated and allegedly prevented from entering by hospital security. Do you know if she has put that on public record somewhere? I have heard it alleged by a "friend" of hers in Bournemouth. If it is true, I would like to document it here - but we need an objective source for it. As you can see in the discussion up above, I was asking about this back in February 2011.82.71.0.229 (talk) 11:35, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Since you have brought up the subject, I would also like to find information about the rumour that Enzina Fuschini was allegedly denied access to the hospital where Rafferty was being treated and allegedly prevented from entering by hospital security. Do you know if she has put that on public record somewhere? I have heard it alleged by a "friend" of hers in Bournemouth. If it is true, I would like to document it here - but we need an objective source for it. As you can see in the discussion up above, I was asking about this back in February 2011.82.71.0.229 (talk) 11:35, 13 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I think we can all try to look for objectivity in this all, and I appreciate this highly; drawing a common line of objectivity, that I think we have reached. Yes me too I would say that what is at present known about the case are just a few newspaper articles with interviews with Fuschini, which are now correctly cited in the WP pages, without expressing any biassed opinion.

If there is a "rumour" somewhere it should have been published. And not in twitter or facebook or Wikipedia, but at least as a newspaper article I'd say. I think personally (IMHO) the rumour is actually based on a true story; if we imagine the opposite, that she was allowed without problem, why would she declare she was not? Just logic thinking I would say, but again, we must find a published account if we want to put it in Wikipedia. Me too I will do my best to find out more on this episode, for what I can do. As usual in these cases, it will all anyway depend on mutual declarations which are worth what they are, and we do not want to be involved in the court case, nor involve Wikipedia as an Institute. From my point of view, if a family member of Rafferty declares that he said this or that, it can never be verified. Eye witness is the keyword and as you may well know, eye withnesses should be reliable, with no interest, and certainly not family of the party. the same holds of course for interviews with Family members or Fuschini, but: The only thing we can due is document what is written in published form, and argue about it, confronting and evaluating what is written. --Jpvandijk (talk) 15:17, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

I see that the only citation (that was already mentioned on this discussion page above in the chapter about his death), is the Daily Mirror of the 31st of Jan 2011. So let's say the "rumour" is a published statement. --Jpvandijk (talk) 10:41, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Take the Money and Run...

 * Is the co-writer (with Graham Nash) of "Take the Money and Run" from Crosby & Nash's Wind on the Water, Gerry Rafferty? Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 19:24, 5 July 2013 (UTC)


 * That's an interesting question. I don't know the answer, but I doubt you'll get one here. If you haven't already, I'd ask it on either:


 * The Official Gerry Rafferty Facebook page - where it will be seen by people including Martha Rafferty and Alan Rafferty: http://www.facebook.com/OfficialGerryRaffertyPage


 * or on the Effing Peasants Message Board - where it will be seen by Jim Rafferty: http://members3.boardhost.com/GerryRafferty/


 * I'm sure you'll get an exact answer at one or both of those.


 * Even it's just a coincidence, it's an interestng one!
 * 82.71.0.229 (talk) 21:25, 5 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The single release of that song shows only "G. Nash" as the songwriter:
 * https://img.discogs.com/IGZ2P_VBVD8qeRcnbETm5Wca74c=/fit-in/600x598/filters:strip_icc:format(jpeg):mode_rgb:quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2621474-1503714128-5101.jpeg.jpg
 * Phil Champ (talk) 16:53, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Deletion of apparently copyright image Sept 12, 2013
Per WP:CV, I've removed the image of GR and EF as a suspected copyright violation. It was apparently copied from this article: http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/3331595/Weve-lost-another-Scottish-legend-and-a-wonderful-talent.html Although it has been uploaded to Wikipedia on a user's own page, I don't believe the "own work" license tag because it was published online in numerous newspapers in 2011. Right clicking on the image in the Sun article brings up the message "Copyright 2012 News Group Newspapers Ltd and/or its licensors. No use without permission. Contact enquiries@newssyndication.com" and the newspaper article credits it to "Collect". Without proper evidence to the contrary (per WP:COPYREQ), I believe the use of this image is a copyright violation. 82.71.0.229 (talk) 07:04, 12 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I have now labelled the photo "copyvio" on Wikimedia Commons and added a note to the uploader's talk page.

82.71.0.229 (talk) 08:04, 12 September 2013 (UTC)