Talk:Get Carter/Archive 1

The material below
The material below was to be the plot, but I think I'm getting the events out of order, so I'm leaving this for the moment until I watch the film again.

Spoiler Carter cuts a bloody path through the Newcastle. In London he works for Gerald Fletcher (Terence Rigby) and is having an affair with his wife Anna (Britt Ekland). After arriving and setting himself up with a room in a small terraced house he begins to re-establish links with his family and past associates. He meets up with his neice, the mousey Doreen (Petra Markham), attends the funeral and chats threateningly with Margaret (Dorothy White) Frank's girl. He meets up with Eric Paice (Ian Hendry) at a racetrack, his intended target Albert Swift (Glynn Edwards) making a rapid retreat as he sees Carter. After a desultory conversation with Paice he follows him as he chauffers local criminal big-shot Cyril Kinnear (John Osborne) to his impressive home. Carter forces his way into Kinnear's home where he is met with polite courtesy from Kinnear and a general air of incomprehension. However on his return to his lodgings he is approached by Thorpe (Bernard Hepton) and some heavies and told to leave, Carter beats up the heavies and chases and grabs Thorpe.

Bryan Mosley - Cliff Brumby, arcades - businessman, car-park in Gateshead Tony Beckley - Peter, red jag man George Sewell - Con McCarty, red jag man Geraldine Moffat - Glenda, Brumby's girl, Sunbeam Alpine, into river Rosemarie Dunham - Edna, Alun Armstrong - Keith, barman Albert Swift, shifty, in film, stabbed at bookies

current plot summary
played out against a bleak industrial backdrop of docks, slag heaps and car parks (Owen Luder's Trinity Centre Multi-Storey Car Park in Gateshead).

This is factually inaccurate. The scenes were not particularly "industrial". There was certainly derelict housing typical of the era in the Newcastle, but much of the film had scenes set in a more rural setting or, for example, in the pubs and clubs of Newcastle. Very little "industry" in fact.

The docks were in fact jetties (Tyne) and coal staithes (Cambois). The slag heaps were not featured until the end, so it may be stretching the description to suggest they formed the "backdrop" to the film. The car parks (plural)? Well, there was certainly one and it might be worth mentioning due to its infamy, but any other car parks were surely incidental and not really a powerful feature.

In summary, this needs a re-write. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Leaky caldron (talk • contribs)


 * Neither was the housing depicted in the film actually derelict at the time of filming, in the sense that any of it was abandoned or waiting for demolition. Indeed, St. Cuthbert's Village estate in Gateshead, where the character Glenda has a flat, was relatively new in 1970/71. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.158.177.18 (talk • contribs)


 * You are quite welcome to re-write this yourself, though - that's what we're all about. Bob 12:35, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I think the article may contain two small inaccuracies:

"In Jack's absence, the rivals return, and attack the boarding house landlady (Rosemarie Dunham)." I could be wrong, but the only person I remembered being attacked was Keith, the bartender.

"Having forced her to divest herself of her PVC outfit at gunpoint, he leaves her naked body on the grounds of Kinnear's mansion ... " She's not naked; she keeps her panties on. In fact, Carter instructs her to do so as she is about to remove them. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.3.248.65 (talk) 17:56, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

There is a gunfight scene set against a backdrop of Wallsend docks; the huge ship in the background is the 'Esso Hibernia' in the Swan Hunter shipyard - the second of a pair of supertankers, the largest ever built in the UK either before or since that date (c1970). There is info on this around the internet - google 'get carter northumbria'. Would someone like to add this info into the article somewhere?? Flying Stag (talk) 22:18, 28 February 2012 (UTC)


 * This sort of information perhaps sounds a little trivial, more the sort of thing that IMDb does. However, if you feel it should be added, why not add it yourself? Bob talk 23:47, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Bob, and I enjoyed your DIY advice. Usually, that is exactly what I do.  However in this instance I don't know anything about film in general or 'get carter' in particular so I'm being a bit wary.  In terms of triviality, I tend to agree as regard the detail, though a simple addition of Wallsend to the list of film locations would seem to be no more trivial than other locations.   Perhaps I'll do this.  Anyway thanks for the response. Flying Stag (talk) 12:56, 29 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi there, I agree with you in part, I think a mention that Wallsend docks are a location for the end sequence does need adding. I think the filming locations coverage needs a cleanup at some point anyway. I think the stuff about the supertankers is maybe not as useful for including here, but I think it should definately be added on the Wallsend page in the shipbuilding section, and maybe the Swan Hunter page and it should be added that Wallsend was a filming location for Get Carter.  Hope that helps. Kaleeyed (talk) 00:21, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Wallsend did not feature in the end sequence. That was North Blyth and Blackhall. Leaky  Caldron  10:47, 20 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Ah, gotcha, I was getting mixed up. So he's talking about the ferry shootout sequence?  I think the same advice applies, except the bit about the end sequence. Kaleeyed (talk) 12:12, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Trivia
I've included a bullet point within the trivia section which refers to the presence of the assassin 'J' in an early scene. I do so because it is retrospectively intriguing and truly falls into the category of trivia.

I confess I am mildly uneasy about including it for fear of prompting the reader to form links in the storyline which almost certainly do not exist. Not, at least, in the film as it was originally edited and released in the UK. It is a nuance only really discernible today with the benefit of video and dvd.

Additionally, I've been careful to phrase the point in such a way that it does not act as a spoiler - I hope successfully?

apc 14:47, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Jack's Return Home location
There appear to be two contradictory bits of information about the original location of the novel Jack's Return Home:


 * "In the book however the story is set in Doncaster which although still in the North East is a long way from Newcastle casting some doubt on the one-armed bandit claim of influence."


 * "The novel on which the film was based, Jack's Return Home, unlike the film, is not set in Newcastle but in Scunthorpe; although not directly named as such, this quite clearly is the intended location given the descriptions of the town and surrounding area. The film, however, is set exclusively in Newcastle and Gateshead."

My understanding is that Doncaster railway station is mentioned in the book, but the actual setting is not named. Whatever the reality, the film's not set there so these ought to be left here unless a specific citation can be found. Bob talk 21:08, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Early in the book Jack arrives in Doncaster, later on he is drinking in the Cecil a pub in Balby a district of Doncaster. I shall dig it out and scan the relevant bits. 92.237.186.252 (talk) 08:50, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The town in which the novel's set is never revealed. However it has been speculated at as Scunthorpe, due to Thorpe's name and Brumby being a district of Scunthorpe. Kaleeyed (talk) 12:44, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Reception
I changed early criticism to reception as that is how film articles are written here on WP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.150.21.45 (talk) 19:10, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

In this section it is stated that "In the opening scene of the original version Gerald Fletcher warns Carter that the Newcastle gangs "won't take kindly to someone from The Smoke poking his bugle in". This was later redubbed for American release in a less pronounced Cockney accent (not by Terence Rigby) with "won't take kindly to someone from London poking his nose in""

I have just seen a -- admittedly downloaded, but not by me :-) -- version where Rigby's line was "won't take kindly to someone from London poking his bugle in". The line "I smell trouble, boy" was not edited out, and for all I could tell it was Rigby's voice, so I assume it was the original UK version. 188.102.221.102 (talk) 23:50, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Accent
An interesting bit of trivia that does not belong in the article: Although the character Carter was born and raised in Newcastle, he has a perfect Cockney accent. Why? Caine's attempt at a Geordie accent on the first day of shooting had the crew falling about laughing and it was decided to revert to Cockney. 88.213.9.176 (talk) 12:33, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Where's your evidence for this? According to the film studies guide on Get Carter, Caine never tried to play the character with a Geordie accent, he always did it as a Cockney, because he based it on people he'd known growing up. Hodges apparently never questioned this or asked him to do a Geordie accent because he reasoned it would make sense that Carter has lived in London so long he has adapted his accent. I think it makes sense. Kaleeyed (talk) 12:49, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Interesting sources
http://focusontofilm.com/2011/01/beating-the-odds-interview-with-mike-hodges-2000/

http://www.thejc.com/lifestyle/the-simon-round-interview/51627/interview-tony-klinger

Interview with Mike Hodges: http://www.mulhollandbooks.com/2010/11/01/an-interview-with-writerdirector-mike-hodges/

British Crime Cinema http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_--Ebdp6mwAC&lpg=RA1-PA131&ots=XKjy6q0sO2&dq=get%20carter%20drive-in%20mgm&pg=RA1-PA132#v=onepage&q=get%20carter%20drive-in%20mgm&f=false

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1116059.the_fight_for_get_carter_house/

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/mike-hodges-a-concrete-monstrosity-but-it-was-perfect-for-my-film-2035420.html

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3957324/For-4500-Get-Carters-iconic-trench-coat.html

http://www.timeout.com/film/reviews/70130/get-carter.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/filmmakersonfilm/3615619/Film-makers-on-film-Mike-Hodges.html

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/25adefe8-9c0f-11de-b214-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1mylA4UGH

http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst?docId=5000600335

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/markkermode/2011/02/get_carter_40th_anniversary.html

http://www.mojo4music.com/blog/2011/02/get_carter.html

http://www.salon.com/2011/04/15/worst_remakes_fridaynightseitz/slide_show/5/

http://www.shortlist.com/entertainment/films/get-carter-40th-anniversary

http://www.thenational.ae/arts-culture/film/the-crime-genre-game-changer-get-carter-turns-40

http://www.kamerabooks.co.uk/neo-noir/index.php?title_isbn=9781842433119

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/goss.alan/warren/cornerhouse.htm

http://www.britmovie.co.uk/2010/04/10/an-interview-with-mike-hodges/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/filmblog/2011/apr/13/blu-ray-technology-lost

Wikicommons photos
File:North Blyth, Base of North Side Staithes - geograph.org.uk - 1743242.jpg

File:Trinity square car park stairwell - geograph.org.uk - 1027854.jpg

File:Newcastle high level bridge - geograph.org.uk - 1027852.jpg

File:Site of aerial conveyor, Blackhall Colliery - geograph.org.uk - 1610042.jpg

File:Beechcroft, Broomside Lane - awaiting demolition. - geograph.org.uk - 463508.jpg

File:Trinity Square car park - geograph.org.uk - 1723234.jpg

Good Article nomination
I hope it's not presumptuous of me to nominate an article I've put so much work into. Bob suggested to me this should be put up for FA, but as it's the first time I've ever gone up for nomination I thought I'd put it in for GA first and see how that goes. Kaleeyed (talk) 00:41, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Should Get Carter be classed as Anglo-American or British?
I hope I'm not going to ruffle a few feathers here but I've seen numerous references to Get Carter being an 'Anglo-American' production. The country on the AFI film catalog says Great Britain and United States and gives the production companies as Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer British Studios, Ltd./Anglo-EMI Film Distributors, Ltd. Mike Hodges himself has said "Get Carter was an Anglo American production, EMI/MGM." So American money and distribution, but English production, direction and casting: http://www.britmovie.co.uk/2010/04/10/an-interview-with-mike-hodges/ Is there a case for changing the description in the lead from 'British film' to 'Anglo American film'? Or should it stay as it is? Personally I think the fact that Get Carter was a joint production between an ailing British film industry and an American studio on its last legs is an important part of the film's story, but if people can come up with some good reasons why it shouldn't be changed I'm open to that. Kaleeyed (talk) 17:38, 3 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't have strong feeling either way, but I think "British film" is slightly better, simply because the high-profile, dare I say most important, elements of the film were British. That said, the joint nature of the production should be kept very clear in the introduction. Does the Wikiproject have a view on it? Great work on this article, by the way - really good. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:56, 3 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Bretonbanquet, thanks, much appreciated. I seem to have got pretty obsessed with this subject of late, I think I'm running out of steam (an things to add!) now.  There's a bit more to do, adding a section on themes, some cleanup. Thanks also for you helpful comments here.  Maybe I will keep the opening as British film, and say in th lead that although it is regarded as a British film, because the creative team were all British, etc. the production was an Anglo American venture with the funding coming from MGM. Something like that? What do people think? I also think it's important to mention something I haven't yet, that this was the last movie produced by MGM's British wing before they pulled out of Europe.Kaleeyed (talk) 14:15, 4 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Nothing wrong with a bit of obsession now and again, especially when it's this productive! That sounds like a good idea, to clarify the perception of the film as British, while in fact a good deal of the funding came from the US. Also, your last point is definitely one worth mentioning - it's great context, and that kind of thing encourages readers to go and find out more from other articles :) Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:53, 4 April 2012 (UTC)