Talk:Gewehr 1888

Cleanup request April 2007
Stuff that needs to be done: --Sus scrofa 13:28, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Sections
 * References
 * Shortening and rewriting portions of the text that repeats the same information
 * Done the sections. Biscuittin 21:33, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Seems to have had some extensive editing sicne originally posted. Mainly needs refs now. --Lendorien (talk) 14:41, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Here's a useful ref: Mzmadmike (talk) 01:51, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Packet loading rarity
I apologize if I am filling out this section wrong. I am new to this. I don't believe that the comment stating that the original packet loading variation is rare is correct. Many Gew 88s were converted to either the 88/05 variation prior to WWI, or the much more rushed 88/14 variation after the start of the war. Both of those no longer used the mannlicher style en-block clip. But the vast majority of the rifles were left in their original state. Many had already been sold off as surplus to China and countries in South America. Most of those rifles were not modified, and still use the packet system.

208.57.39.4 23:37, 12 October 2007 (UTC)CR
 * I'm not sure about "vast majority," but there are enough packet feed rifles left for there to be an aftermarket making clips for them.Mzmadmike (talk) 01:50, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008
Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 18:16, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect data regarding the Kar88
the article states that the Kar88 omitted the barrel jacket. This is incorrect, I own one and it does have a barrel jacket. Please see enclosed pictures.

http://i54.tinypic.com/adgvbm.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/w6uttv.jpg

I have detailed pictures of my Kar88, and i also have detailed information regarding the Kar88. I would be happy to correct the information as well as expand the Kar88 section with more detailed information and pictures if it would stop being put back to saying that the Kar88 had no barrel jacket.

Thank you.

Please feel free to contact me at my e-mail bruceman10@msn.com if you would like me to expand and correct the section on the Kar88

1/1/2011


 * I'm going to let the current edit stand because the part about the Kar88 barrel jacket was unsourced. However, please be aware of the wikipedia policy of No original research: "Wikipedia does not publish original research. The term "original research" refers to material&mdash;such as facts, allegations, ideas, and stories&mdash;not already published by reliable sources." This means that information such as pictures you've taken yourself shouldn't be added to wikipedia articles. Please keep this in mind for future edits.--Sus scrofa (talk) 15:25, 3 January 2011 (UTC)


 * So, actual pictures of an actual gun, being actual primary source material, are not sourceable? Seriously?  And we wonder why WP is considered a joke by many.  Pray tell me, what is more "Reliable" than a photo of an actual item?Mzmadmike (talk) 01:21, 7 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Without grounding in a reliable source an image of a rifle is totally unreliable as we do not know the history of the weapon in the least. The barrel jacket could have been added at any point in the last 100 years, it might be a picture of a one-off model, it might not be a Kar88 at all (at this point it becomes a matter of editors deciding whether it is which equals original research) and so on. I know in general there is no demand for a source of an image but that only holds true as long as there is no controversy about it. Otherwise, someone could, for example, go into the article about the Iraq War and add images of US soldiers murdering civilians that he created himself in Photoshop (because, you know, "actual pictures" are "primary source material" that are "sourceable". What is more reliable than a photo of the actual event?). Now this is about the barrel jacket is a minor quibble, but the principles of "no original research" still holds true, and we should strive for accuracy even in the little things. As for Wikipedia being a joke, I would like to see you try and get a picture you've taken in your basement published as new fact by, say, Encyclopedia Britannica. The principles guiding Wikipedia are not fundamentally different from other encyclopedias, they add information from experts they employ, while we add information from experts published in reliable sources. See also WP:PRIMARY on the use of primary sources.--Sus scrofa (talk) 10:44, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

1888 pattern M/88 ammunition and conversion to 1905 pattern 8x57mm IS
The Gewehr 888 originally chambered for the M/88 service cartridge. In 1905, after a service period of 17 years, the 8 mm M/88 cartridge which was introduced in 1888 and loaded with a 8.08 mm (.318 in) diameter 14.6 g (226 gr) round nose bullet was replaced by the 8x57mm IS/7.92×57mm Mauser service cartridge which was loaded with a new 8.20 mm (.323 in) diameter 9.9 g (154 gr) spitzer bullet. The introduction of this new service ammunition offered improved accuracy and a flatter trajectory at the price that the existing military rifle stock had to be rechambered and rebarreled. Esthablishing to chambering of a Gewehr 1888 is important the 1888 pattern M/88 cartridge and 1905 S-bore pattern cartridges are two different non interchangeable chamberings. Besides the military developed S-bore a narrower I-bore was developed by civilian gunsmiths according to the groove and bore diameter ratio principles used in the S-bore to improve the M/88 accuracy whist retaining the smaller projectile diameter of the M/88. This ammunition is in 2012 known as the 8x57 I. Just like the 8x57 IS the 8x57 I chambering differs from the parental M/88 chambering. The original military M/88 chambering is not factory produced anymore and has effectively been replaced by the civilian 8x57 I chambering that can be fired safely from historic rifles (besides using larger diameter bullets the 8x57 IS has a higher service pressure). Logic dictates that firing 8x57 I from 8x57 IS chambered arms will have adverse effects on accuracy. The article 8×57mm IS cartridge portrait - Totgesagte leben länger, Wild und Hund 11/2006 explains the history from M/88 to 8x57 mm IS and 8x57mm I from military and civilian use perspectives in even more detail.--Francis Flinch (talk) 13:58, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Judenflinte
I corrected the passage about the anti-semitic conspiracy theory around this rifle. It was not "members of the press" that denounced the rifle as a "Judenflinte", it was a member of the Reichstag. That man has his own wikipedia article. I also added some details about this topic. It's merely an anecdote, which, IMO, shouldn't be in this article, since it had no impact on the history of this rifle. But since somebody had decided that it should be in there, it should at least be more accurate. 2003:81:6D27:3201:DEF:56C1:CFCF:D111 (talk) 06:03, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

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Why a Mannlicher design?
I have to accept that the magazine of the Gewehr 1888 is the Mannlicher magazine design, but the receiver and bolt design has nothing to do with Mannlicher. The Mannlicher at that time is a straight pull rifle with a rotating bolt.

The bolt and reciever design is a updated version of the Mauser Gewehr 71 or 71/84 reciever and bolt. The design is done by the commission, but uses the features of the older Mauser. The Gewehr 1871 has also the split receiver.

Mannlicher produces the Gewehr 1888 for Germany and gets the right to use the design for their own production and sales. Mannlicher updates this design, that had some inherited dangers, like poor gas relieve and the possibility of double loading because of the poor ejector design, and in the end it morphs to the Mannlicher Schönauer with the rotary magazine,

So it would be quite correct to call it a Mauser design regarding bolt and receiver, with a Mannlicher Magazine. The shrouded barrel is an idea by the commission.

The commission was not infringing on any Mauser patents, as when the Gewehr 1871 was accepted the rights to the patent followed and the Gewehr 1871 could be produced at State owned arsenals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jochum (talk • contribs) 00:03, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

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