Talk:Geysers on Mars

Outdated sources
In the future, when quoting primary sources, please verify they are current theories or models. Not because they have been published it has to be included (example: Flat Earth model). In this particular subject, a wave of speculations were proposed and published, and the latest research all points at cold geyser-like or jet-like systems. Most old theories were discarded on basis of thermal imaging. Note that current geophysical models deal with the most likely geyser mechanisms, of which there is no consensus yet. I know the Hungarians propose the thingie is alive, so it is listed apart. If you come across new papers citing a phenomenon different than geyser/jet/outflow/eruption/plumes, etc., please go ahead and post it here or intregrate it to the article. Thank you, BatteryIncluded (talk) 22:22, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Geysers on Triton
There are similar markings in the southern subpolar region of Triton [50° and 57°S] (observed by the the Voyager 2 probe in 1989) which are ascribed to geysers powered by subsurface vaporization of nitrogen. It would be useful to compare and contrast these with the ones on Mars.--Tediouspedant (talk) 14:09, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I read that both models are similar but I have not read anything about the ones in Triton. The ones in Mars happen on ice no thicker than 1 meter and use solar energy to sublimate the ice. The ones in Triton seem powered by powerful geological processes as the plumes are several kilometers high. I think writting a short section comparing them would be interesting, especially if the mechanism are thought to be similar. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 20:09, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Are there any actual observations of the Martian 'geysers' themselves?
WP seems to have a habit of making 'hypothetical' / 'theoretical' things sound far too 'settled' for comfort.

There seems to be a lot of speculation going on in the literature as to how the dark spots form and how the dark fans form. The literature seems caught up in the current 'geyser' model.

Do we have any actual DIRECT evidence of this (visual confirmation, etc.), or is it all strictly hypothetical at this point? If so, that should maybe be made more clear in the article.

I assume a geyser is probably too small a feature for even HiRISE to successfully image at sufficient resolution? So, I'm not holding out much hope on that score...

There seem to be a few problems with the geyser model & the "spiders." For one, is there any specific reason for the formation of filamentary channels in the terrain? As opposed to say big circular pits or some other morphology? We know that frost layers come and go in other regions and that dark spots and fans form on and around areas where NO spiders are seen. Why aren't spiders/geysers seen in THOSE regions? Do we see 'spiders'/'geysers' in the northern latitudes as well? If not, why not? Why do 'spiders' / 'geysers' only occur in specific areas of the southern latitudes? One assumes the same laws of physics / chemistry apply in both hemispheres...

Is there anything in the literature WRT problems with the geyser model? Perhaps that should be included for balance, if so? 'Open questions,' 'unsolved contradictions,' etc. 50.53.113.32 (talk) 04:26, 4 December 2012 (UTC)


 * All your answers are in the article. Including:
 * From the introduction: "There is no direct data on these features other than images taken in the visible and infrared spectra."
 * "Time-lapsed imagery performed by NASA confirms the apparent ejection of dark material following the radial growth of spider channels in the ice.[8] Time-lapsed imaging of a single area of interest also shows that small dark spots generally indicate the position of spider features not yet visible; it also shows that spots expand significantly, including dark fans emanating from some of the spots, which increase in prominence and develop clear directionality indicative of wind action."
 * BatteryIncluded (talk) 15:02, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090327135109/http://www.lyon.edu/projects/marsbugs/2003/20030609.pdf to http://www.lyon.edu/projects/marsbugs/2003/20030609.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20040505233200/http://www.msss.com:80/biographies/edgett/reprints/2001JE001587.pdf to http://www.msss.com/biographies/edgett/reprints/2001JE001587.pdf

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090315074210/http://www.agu.org:80/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate to http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate?&listenv=table&multiple=1&range=1&directget=1&application=fm07&database=%2Fdata%2Fepubs%2Fwais%2Findexes%2Ffm07%2Ffm07&maxhits=200&="P24A-05"
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090315074210/http://www.agu.org:80/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate to http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate?&listenv=table&multiple=1&range=1&directget=1&application=fm05&database=%2Fdata%2Fepubs%2Fwais%2Findexes%2Ffm05%2Ffm05&maxhits=200&="P23C-04"
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090706072920/http://nai.nasa.gov/nai2005/abstracts/653%20-%20NAI2005-spiders.doc.pdf to http://nai.nasa.gov/nai2005/abstracts/653%20-%20NAI2005-spiders.doc.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110721104952/http://www.colbud.hu/esa/publications/26MosCBC10color.pdf to http://www.colbud.hu/esa/publications/26MosCBC10color.pdf

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Requested move 31 August 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved to alternate proposals. Andrewa (talk) 01:20, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

– WP:NATURAL disambiguation is preferred to parenthetical, so the forms used in the articles' ledes are better choices here. I would also support Geysers on Mars and Gullies on Mars, or Geysers of Mars and Gullies of Mars. --BDD (talk) 15:01, 31 August 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. Steel1943  (talk) 16:52, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Geyser (Mars) → Martian geysers
 * Gully (Mars) → Martian gullies
 * Support current title looks like a place name. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:00, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Also support third option Geysers on Mars and Martian geyser below, or Geysers on Mars and Martian gully


 * Oppose on two grounds. 1. A hard narrow objection - both these violate WP:SINGULAR. At the least, they need to be Martian Gully and Martian geyser, and need to be reposed as such. 2. A wider (weaker) objection - as I read WP:NATURAL, the proposed name needs to be in common use as the actual name used to refer to the thing. These for me aren't the commonly used names. They're just geysers and gullies, the fact they happen to be on Mars isn't part of the common name. FWIW, I also note that Google records ~80% more hits for "gullies on Mars" than it does for "Martian gullies", which I'd like to think supports this argument. I think this should be brought up on WP:MARS and WP:SOLARSYSTEM, and have done so. DanHobley (talk) 09:19, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm just as happy with Martian geyser and Martial gully; I mostly proposed the plural forms because they're used in the article's ledes. I think the plural forms are acceptable per WP:PLURAL, since these are "articles on groups or classes of specific things", but the singular forms are fine too, and I wouldn't want the move held up over that. --BDD (talk) 18:02, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Support Geysers on Mars and Gullies on Mars. We already have Glaciers on Mars, Yardangs on Mars, etc., so we might as well show some consistency in our naming. — Huntster (t @ c) 18:20, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Support Geysers on Mars and Gullies on Mars per Huntster. I agree with BDD that plural forms are preferred here, being about groups of specific things. WP:CONSISTENT and WP:RECOGNIZABLE are a bonus. No such user (talk) 10:00, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Closing comment: I note that this completes a full circle starting 13:15, 29 January 2011‎ Nono64 (talk | contribs | block)‎ . . (28 bytes) (+28)‎ . . (moved Geysers on Mars to Martian geyser) and will erase the history showing that (which is why I preserve it here). Andrewa (talk) 01:15, 24 September 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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