Talk:Ghalib

Copyvio
The deletion of content that removed copyvio material has removed material I wrote myself and therefore could not have been a copy vio. What happened?

IFaqeer 01:54, 9 December 2005 (UTC)


 * It was a copyvio from . It was a copyvio right from the date of old creation, i.e. 10 March, 2004. While you had worked on the later revisions of the older article, the text had not changed substantially. Also, the poliy here has been to delete the article if it impinges on copyrights right from the first edit. If you had written the content on the above URL, you will have to make a claim to that effect on that URL and release it through GDFL. Hope that clarifies the matters you have raised. --Gurubrahma 06:57, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Verse, life
I believe the verse given is 147.3 from his Divan. A transliteration might be given:

dast gāh-e dīdah-e ḳhūñ bār-e majnūñ dekhna yek biyābāñ jalvah-e gul farś-e pā andāz hai

Is the translation given copyrighted? It is verbatim to this site. I'm sure anyone with a basic knowledge of Urdu could try to paraphrase, I might, but am afraid of not doing him justice.

A better, though brief, biography is at [ghalib.org] for future reference. Isn't the translation of ġhālib 'triumphant as well? I'm not sure on this as it probably has much more significance like Hafez, etc. In any case, the Urdu "Shakespeare" is in need of a more comprehensive article. Khiradtalk 01:43, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Example of Ghalib's work
The last section of the article is very messy, and I suggest we use one poem only and have it arranged in the Original, Transliteration, and Translation subsections. Can anyone provide a poem, its transliteration, and its translation for me to use? (and I will modify the transliteration see Talk:Urdu ) Basawala 20:40, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I have deleted the section because it was too messy. I will try to add a different example of his work, so suggestions would be appreciated.  Thanks.  Mar de Sin   Speak up!  18:37, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

who is kalidas ?
in the article it says

He is considered to be the most dominating poet of the region since Kalidas.

who was kalidas ? any links ?

--digitalSurgeon 23:48, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Have hyperlinked the reference to Kalidasa. I personally don't think that the comparison with Kalidasa is very appropriate since Kalidasa wrote in Sanskrit and Ghalib wrote in Urdu and Persian but obviously it's the opinion of the person who has written that line.

--Amit_181, 3 July 2006

The article has "he wrote several ghazals during his life". In fact, he wrote a great many ghazals. The word several should be removed.

Well I think that almost all the ghazals of Mirza Ghalib are great. "several" and "many" both should be removed.

--Fatal Eyes, 23 July 2007

Wikified
Wikified as part of the Wikification wikiproject! Corrected a few section entries. JubalHarshaw 17:44, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Mirza Ghalib's Date of Birth
What is actual date of birth of Mirza Ghalib 27 December 1796 or 27 December 1797 as both are mentioned in the article. --Pritam nks 23:45, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Amendments Please: Why is this article categorized under "1796 Births"? It should come under "1797 Births".Amit Munje (talk) 14:19, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Capitalization of K in TaKhallus
Why K of taKhallus is capital in some places of this article? Is K capitalised to indicate the sound of Urdu letter "khay"? Or is it capitalised by mistake?

WP:INDIA Banner/Delhi Addition
Note: WP India Project Banner with Delhi workgroup parameters was added to this article talk page because the article falls under Category:Delhi or its subcategories. Should you feel this addition is inappropriate, please undo my changes and update/remove the relavent categories to the article -- Amartyabag   TALK2ME  02:37, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Film on Ghalib
The section on "Ghalib in fiction" says that the movie on Ghalib made on the Government of Pakistan commission is "regarded a masterpiece", and then claims that apart from a few private viewings, has never been released by the government. I believe that this needs to be clarified: who regards it as a masterpiece if it has never been publicly viewed? Maybe somebody knowledgeable on the subject should confirm whether the film receive sufficient critical appreciation to be regarded a masterpiece, and how this fits in with the fact that it was never publicly released.

203.200.95.130 (talk) 13:38, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Touché. This needs to be checked 49.205.243.66 (talk) 11:47, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Two questions...
1) Why does the article say "a poet of the Indian subcontinent", and not "a poet of India"? "Indian subcontinent" is a geographical term for a landmass, as described in the corresponding article, and has no connection to the historical entity called India.

2) What on earth does Pakistan have to do with this article? Why is it under WP:Pakistan? -- ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 13:25, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Any answers? Or should I go ahead and make the changes? ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 09:51, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * In answer to 1) - Define the "historical entity" called India? - Where were its boundaries? Ghalib's influence has been throughout the subcontinent (but not so much South India) - this is why it is better to say Subcontinent rather than just India.
 * In answer to 2) It is under WP Pakistan because Ghalib has had an effect on Pakistani culture and hence the article is a "Pakistan-related topic", see Mirza Ghalib


 * This is not akin of course to saying that Ghalib was Pakistani or that Pakistan has any claim over him. Just that as Ghalib lived in a time before the modern nation states came into existence, his influence is not neatly confined within one nation state. Pahari Sahib  10:13, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I am going to let the Wikiproject Pakistan stay but I am doing away with the ridiculous "Indian Subcontinent" line and replacing it with India. Would refer you to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India_(disambiguation) for my reasons for doing so. You can't be so defensive about sharing a common history with India and then go on to claim Ghalib as your own. Next thing you would be asking to replace "Indian subcontinent" with South Asia because you don't like the "India" in it. As an aside, Ghalib was an extremely secular person who celebrated Hindu festivals, and he would have been apalled at seeing India split on religious lines. ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 17:14, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * How am I being defensive, you are coming across as a little aggressive here. I am not trying to claim Ghalib as my "own" - please reread the final para I wrote above. Incidentally I have no issues with "Indian subcontinent" - why would I want to change this to South Asia? You seem to be alluding to partition here with your comment about Ghalib being "apalled at seeing India split on religious lines." As I have said "his influence is not neatly confined within one nation state". Pahari Sahib  17:33, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Furthermore look at the Heer Ranjha article, it contains both Wikiproject Pakistan and India, these Wikiprojects are not mutually exclusive. Pahari Sahib   17:42, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * "History of India" - rings a bell? It's not "history of the indian subcontinent". That should answer your query of "What is this historical entity called India". Ghalib belongs to the rich history of India and noone can take that away from it. So I am reverting. If you are still not satisfied we can seek third opinion. Please note that I have not removed the Wikiproject Pakistan template despite having ample reasons for doing so - I know that Wikiproject India and Wikiproject Pakistan have overlapping scope, but Ghalib lived before any idea of Pakistan was conceived. How do you then select him for WP:Pakistan - just because he was muslim? Or why else is Chandragupta Maurya not part of Wikiproject Pakistan? ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 11:54, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * My apologies, Chandragupta Maurya is indeed a part of Wikiproject Pakistan. However that takes nothing away from my argument that it should be "of India" and not "of Indian subcontinent" (see my arguments above). ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 11:59, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * And just to clarify, I gave the Indian subcontinent -> South Asia example because some people have a problem with the name Indian subcontinent being used to identify the region, as can be seen in the talk page archives of the article. ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 12:03, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Well just to respond this, just because some people have a problem with Indian subcontinent - shouldn't mean you should jump to conclusions about my motivations. Although oddly enough it is you who wish to remove "Indian Subcontinent" (albeit with inverse motives to what you suspect me of :-) ) - no one is denying Ghalib or his heritage. Reading between the lines (correct me if I am wrong) - you seem to think I am trying to Islamify Ghalib in some way. I never for minute actually mentioned religion in this discussion. Yes Chandragupta Maurya is part of WP Pakistan, do you have any objections to the use of Indian subcontinent there? What I was getting at when I asked about the historical entity was not that India never existed, rather historically it encompassed other areas.  Pahari Sahib  12:19, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * With all due respect, I think you understand my point of view, but are being obstinate just because you are a much prolific contributer than me, and consider it infr-dig to concede something to a relative green-horn like me. I don't have a problem with WP:Pakistan being used in the Chandragupta Maurya article. But if you read further in the lead, it says "he is considered the first unifier of india", not "first unifier of the indian subcontinent". I'd like to reemphasise my "History of India" example - The article says that considers the history of all of south asia prior to 1947 as "History of India" It is on that basis that I argue my case.
 * This is obviously not a life and death matter for me. You seem like a reasonable person, so I would rest my case and hope you come around to understanding my point of view. Or we could seek third opinion if you find that suitable. Adios! ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 12:46, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

(unindent) You know what, I haven't actually checked your edit history till you mentioned the above, but the number of edits either of us have made should have no bearing on this discussion, rather the types of edits we have been making. Oh and you are wrong when you think I am trying to have a go at what I consider to be a green-horn - honestly :-)

Yes the History of India article does indeed say this - and I kind of see your point of view - but in *that* article it is made plain what exactly constitutes India. To be honest I had the impression (initially) that you seemed affronted that someone outside of India should or would be influenced by Ghalib. I see now that when you mention India you are referring to the whole area - I still think Indian subcontinent gives a better indication of his influence not just in India (we can tell by reading the article he was born in Agra, India). By the way I could not see where it says "he is considered the first unifier of india". Anyway I have rewritten the lead let me know what you think. Pahari Sahib 13:26, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Bahadurshah Zafar. Read it and find "India" in the lead, not Indian subcontinent.Does this satisfy you or do I have to dig up dozens other such articles? ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 17:49, 18 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes and it links to India (disambiguation) not India. Pahari Sahib  13:23, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Cool, so shall we change it to India and link it to India (disambiguation) too? ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 07:14, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Sufi?
Was Ghalib a Sufi poet, as the category indicates? The article nowhere mentions this. --ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 18:15, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Dear Reluctant, I may ask if you kindly read the history of the indian subcontinent and learn the history of ghalib through a well versed urdu literature specialist in any decent university. your questions are interesting but a little research might save you from unintentional confused questions. or I may be wrong and getting an incorrect idea about you. I apologize.

And about Ghalib being the Sufi poet, Yes, his poetry does carry concepts that cleary identify with sufi concepts but he was not a complete sufi poet such as shah abdul latif bhatai or buleh shah.221.120.233.75 (talk) 17:43, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Cleaning up external links
Note for justification of removing some external links. The link
 * Devnagiri script for Urdu mooted; Mirza Ghalib’s Urdu language criticized for complexities - TCN News

is unrelated and does not shed light on Ghalib. The following link do not have any poetry related to Ghalib. This link does not work IrfanAli04 (talk) 15:21, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Asadullah Ghalib - Selected ghazals in Urdu Font- Mirza Asadullah Khan Ghalib - selected poems in Urdu font
 * Poems of Mirza Ghalib - Selected poems of Mirza Ghalib in picture-based original Urdu script. Text-based InPage files can also be downloaded.

galib ko sirf rona he ata hai..ugh..krazy man.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.167.103.87 (talk) 09:58, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Orthodox Islam quote
Please provide a passage from the article. I do not have the book, and google books does not read the same as what is in this article. Orthodox Muslim may mean many things, it can, for example, mean Sunni or fundamentalist. I assume it does not mean Wahhabi for this article, but I am concerned the dismissal of Wahhabi due to its not existing when it existed, suggesting other information may have been read incorrectly. Pseudofusulina (talk) 16:44, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Orthodox Muslim is generally understood to mean what it is - the two main Sunni and Shia sects. Either can be fundamentalists! Also, what are your reasons for believing that the info may have been misinterpreted? Joyson Prabhu  Holla at me!   17:34, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Generally understood by whom? "Orthodox Muslim" can be used as a synonym for "Sunni Muslim," although it is not usually used as a synonym for Shia Muslim; depending upon who is using it, it may be used for practicing mainstream Sunni and Shia. However, it apepars to be used as a synonym for fundamentalist in this case.
 * Your comment about Wahhabi in the edit summary led me to question your interpretation of information. My concerns about the accuracy of the information remain, please leave the citation requested tag in place until someone cites that specifically with a quote here.Pseudofusulina (talk) 17:58, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * As generally understood by people with even a rudimentary knowledge of Islam and Muslims! I was born and raised in a Muslim country. So, i know what i am talking about! It seems to me that you lack even basic knowledge of the various sects of Islam. For instance, you erroneously substituted the term "Orthodox Muslim Sheikhs of the Ulema" for "Wahabbi" (wrong spelling by the way), and "narrowly Orthodox Islam" for "narrow Wahabi mindset", and also removed sourced info. Hence, my comment! You don't know whether it appears to be a synonym for fundamentalist Muslim or not, neither do you have any valid reason to doubt that i misinterpreted what was actually mentioned in William Dalrymple's book. I don't have the book with me anymore. I gave it to my older sister last year, who is in another country. The source must have definitely said Orthodox Muslim and Orthodox Islam. I never create my own interpretations! I only add what is actually mentioned in a source. If the info states Orthodox Muslim, then that must have been mentioned in the book. Joyson Prabhu  Holla at me!   18:53, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You stated in an edit summary that the interpretation of narrowly Orthodox Islam was incorrect. It's a quote, and i will put it in quotation marks. Joyson Prabhu  Holla at me!   18:53, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I didn't say anything about "Orthodox Muslim Sheikhs of the Ulema" or use "Wahabbi" anywhere. I grew up in a Muslim country, also, so is there a wikipedia policy on people who grew up in Muslim countries outranking each other? No, that has nothing to do with anything.
 * You said, in your edit summary, "Wahabbis didn't exist then," meaning what, they didn't exist in the 19th century?
 * If you have the book, put it in a quote from the book, like asked, although you did just say you don't have the book. And now you're going to quote what the book must have said. Interesting.
 * I'm afraid your interpretations remain that, and they remain questionable. I won't war you over the revert, it's clear you intend this to be your personal article. Pseudofusulina (talk) 19:02, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was move per request.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 11:44, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Mirza Ghalib → Ghalib – per WP:HONORIFIC. Mirza is an honorofic, the poet is commonly known as Ghalib, and Ghalib already redirects to this article. --regentspark (comment) 18:49, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Support - as per nom. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:15, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Support- yes as the rule it should be moved, only Ghalib is more suitable, and has full status, the removing of honorofic word does not harm any thing, while that is already mentioned as Mirza Asadullah Baig Khan in the lead- Justice007 (talk) 23:19, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Support per above. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 07:37, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Support for reasons provided above. --George Custer&#39;s Sabre (talk) 08:31, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Origin of the word الأسد
May I stress that the word الأسد which Ghalib used as one of his pennames is in fact of Arabic origin and not, as indicated, of a Persian one. Albeit the word may be used in literary Persian, the Persian word for lion is شیر. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.217.72.1 (talk) 16:01, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Copyvio - Shamsur Rahman Faruqi's talk
The section "Mirza Ghalib and Sir Syed Ahmed Khan" seems to be taken almost verbatim from one of its sources (Shamsur Rahman Faruqi's talk). This probably violates Wikipedia's copying policy.

Also, the translation of a poem offered by Mirza Ghalib as a foreword to Ghalib's book need not be included here in its entirety, because:
 * 1) It's far too long;
 * 2) The point could be made with a short extract; and
 * 3) It's surely a copyvio.

Rather than hastily remove the entire section, it would be better if somebody edited it to include a précis of that reference. I have no particular expertise on this topic, nor much time free right now. So please feel free to improve this section if you can. yoyo (talk) 14:47, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Urdu Text (عدنان یاسین) Under English "Ghalib" (right above picture)
That means "Adnan Yasin" in Urdu. I don't see how that name is related to Ghalib at all.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:c8:4003:b761:ac60:8ae2:e146:8c4 (talk • contribs) 01:43, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

List of his work from Prose to Poetry and Letters
Can we have the List only of his literary work? Like the filmography of Actors and Actresses. 49.205.243.66 (talk) 11:45, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Reliable_sources/Noticeboard
For the interested. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:23, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Noting that I agree with Canterbury Tail's recommendation in the discussion and edited by it, it made very good sense per WP:CITEVAR. Now, current ref #6 needs improving, if anyone is up to that. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:30, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Tijarwi's work on Ghalib
There's an IP user that's continuously removing a legit scholarly book about Ghalib, entitled, Ghalib aur Alwar, authored by Dr Mushtaq Tijarwi, and published by Ghalib Institute. The IP claims that the book is unreliable and so is its author. I seek a consensus, and till then the article shall remain in its original earlier version. Regards, ─ The Aafī on Mobile   (talk)|undefined  19:02, 24 April 2022 (UTC)


 * So, Why you believe Tijarwi as a reliable source, who is that non notable and unknown author? How your insertion of his book as an  external link will help this project?  103.84.193.228 (talk) 19:17, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
 * This has not been as an external link but as a further reading. I regard this book as a scholarly resource that's authored by a reliable scholar and professor, and is published by a well known research academy based in India. That said, now allow the community to discuss this and don't be adamant and don't keep on removing this before this discussion ends. ─ The Aafī on Mobile   (talk)|undefined  19:24, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Per and WP:Further reading seems fine to me. Nothing says an author in the Further reading  section (or the ref section) has to be WP:N. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:41, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 May 2023
In 2009, Kader Khan visited Kuwait for the event "Shaam-e-Ghalib" to explain the poems of Mirza Ghalib which is loved and appreciated by the audience around the globe. Mir Zishan (talk) 07:20, 11 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Kader Khan? I could see that video added as a WP:EL, if it was in English or texted in English, but since it's not, I don't see it as very useful on en-WP. Per Khan's WP-article, it's not obvious he can be used as a WP:RS. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:59, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I concur with what @Gråbergs Gråa Sång said. Though the insights from Khan might be useful but he is not an authority in Urdu/Persian language and literature, or a literary critic, and this makes him not very much helpful in this case. If this event is covered in reliable sources, a sentence or so about this might be covered somewhere on the article. ─ The Aafī on Mobile   (talk)|undefined  14:39, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but my default assumption is that that would fail WP:PROPORTION. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:36, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Where was he born
The article suggests that he was born in the Maratha Empire. Our article on Agha where he was born says it was under Maratha control by the late 18th-century. The Mughal Empire was very limited by that time, and it seems Agra was not in any meaningful way under Mughal control at the time of his birth.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:38, 23 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Additionally our article on the Mughal Empire says that from 1760 onward it de factor ruled only the area around Old Delhi. So it appears not only was Ghalib not born in the Mughal Empire, but was born 25 plus years after its control ended where he was born.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:41, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The article on the Conquered and Ceded Provinces gives us indication that in about 1805 the area of Agra is tranferred from the control of the Maratha Empire to the British at the end of one of the Anglo Maratha Wars. That is when Ghalib was about 8. It looks like he maybe does not belong in any categories for oolitical units he was a subject of only as a young child. We do not put people birn in 1982 in Soviet categories or those born in 1910 in Russian Empire categories. It appears that the ehole Mughal Empire is de facto under British control from 1805 on, so I am not sure why we have a 19th-century Mughal Empire people category at all.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:50, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I think the status of Agra, Delhi, etc. is unclear and I wouldn't rely on our Maratha Empire article because it is very poorly sourced. While the Marathas did overrun large chunks of north India, they never actually built an empire and most territories continued to be ruled by local rulers or by the Mughal empire. (Note, also, that the Maratha Empire article is now retitled Maratha Confederacy which more accurately reflects its status.) RegentsPark (comment) 16:15, 23 May 2024 (UTC)