Talk:Ghost Rider (comics)/Archive 1

Ghost Rider: Trail of Tears
Wikipedia redirects to the main Ghost Rider page when searching for this, but it has no mention of it. I know it has one issue left, so it may be better to wait until the series is done to write about it. Just curious.

I started writing about it after I read the first five issues. Feel feel to expand.

Hell's Angel
Just a thought, but it seems that Ghost Rider's appearance was based largely on the Hells Angels logo, (biker with a burning skull for head...). Original Research so far, but I wonder if anyone would know more about that theory...

Who the heck is Noble Kale?
Who the heck is Noble Kale? The article mentions him repeatedly, and seems to casually allude to him being Johnny's father, but there's really nothing explicitly stated. --InShaneee 17:00, 2 November 2005 (UTC)


 * It really is a mess of a story. This was another case of Marvel's writers not pulling in one direction and "band aiding" a serious wound. Anyway, Noble Kale is supposedly the patriarch of the Blaze clan and his descendants are possessed by his spirit, i.e Ghost Rider. It's a storyline that must have sounded cool at a meeting but from the looks of it was not well supported and thus seems contrived and confusing. PJM 18:14, 2 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Actually, the idea of Kale is supported pretty well. It links in well with other family members, and there is also issue 0, which deals with both Blaze & Daniel's mother. It also supports a backlog of memories for the Daniel Ketch version of Ghost Rider who has flashbacks to one of the World Wars (fighting Verminus Rex), and implies a number of previous hosts. The unfortunate part, is the apparent decision to retcon this backstory (although, Ghostie was in a mixed up state in the Spiderman issue mentioned below, so it could be passed off either way). The Kale story arc is also supported more by the Blaze and Spirits of Vengeance titles which were running in parallel, etc.


 * Hell, that's not the only continuity issue. Characters totally disappeared and were never mentioned again (ie: the man named Suicide, who was even given a neat backstory). The issue of Blaze's kids was solved, then unwritten all over the place, etc. Noble Kale 04:04, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


 * In fact, I've added a section on Naomi Kale after I unearthed my copy of issue -1. Ties up a lot of the backstory - including how the bike got into the junkyard, and why Johnny's body is filled with hellfire. It also states, that barton is *not* the father of Daniel and Barbara - as Naomi makes a comment 'Thank the lord none of them favor Antonio' - implying he is their father. Noble Kale 04:36, 30 July 2006 (UTC) (Sorry, wasn't logged in when I made the comment)

When Ghost Rider and Daniel Ketch were remerged in Peter Parker: Spider-Man #93, Ghost Rider stated that he was never Noble Kale and that they had both been lied to. This issue came out shortly after the Ghost Rider monthly title was cancelled, and was created by the original GR team (Howard Mackie and Javier Saltares). I believe the Kale storyline originated after Mackie left GR, so this was presumably his way of ending the continuity question. (The last statement is speculation on my part, as I have not found an interview to verify Mackie's motives for the storyline.)--Shawn.kehoe 15:35, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

According to an interview with Howard Mackie at www.vengeanceunbound.com (currently down, unfortunately), Mackie said he wrote the Peter Parker: Spider-Man #93 story at the behest of editor Ralph Macchio. Since then, the official Marvel Handbooks and Encyclopedias have taken Ghost Rider's claim that the Noble Kale tale was a lie to mean that there was more to the story, not that there never was a Noble Kale. .)--Rabidwolfe 17:45, 1 January 2006

Ghost Rider - the Stunt Rider
This article has a link at the top for disambiguation pointing to another article on the Swedish stunt rider called Ghost Rider. The link takes you to a page that contains information on the forthcoming Ghost Rider movie of the comic character. Does anyone know what happened to the original Ghost Rider (the stunt rider) page? It seems as though it existed at some point but has been hijacked and replaced by the upcoming Hollywood Ghost Rider movie.

European Motorcycle Stunt Rider
The GhostRider web site was at http://www.ghostridermovie.net but it claims they are having ISP problems and are shortly to change to a new host.

The GhostRider stunt rider - which may be more than one person - is the star of a few feature-length DVDs on sale throughout Europe where the blacked-out motorcyclist rides his blacked out and unregistered hyper-sports motorcycle at illegally high speeds through the cities of Europe. In one famous take he rides 64 km (40 miles) in just under 15 minutes. The camera, focused through his fairing shows his tachometer pinned at 299 kph (186 mph) for much of the time as he weaves between the motorway traffic.

The Western Ghost Rider
Ghost Rider appeared first long before 1967 http://www.toonopedia.com/ghrider1.htm

Dick Ayers drew the original version and asked Marvel to buy the rights.

"That's a negative, Ghost Rider"
I always hear people saying this phrase. Is it from the comics? A TV show? Anybody know? MFNickster 17:47, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
 * A-ha! Found it... it's a quote from Top Gun! MFNickster
 * It's not a reference to the comic Ghost Rider though. It's actually the name of a Navy Fighter squadron, VF-142, which is presumeably the unit which Maverick is supposed to be from. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.205.236.49 (talk) 17:06, 15 January 2007 (UTC).
 * See the disambiguation page for more details :D _> MonstaPro:Talk 13:13, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

ghost rider's powers and abilities ?
this section seems to be missing

Page reorganization
I did a bit of reorganization of the page. I figured since Johnny Blaze and Daniel Ketch were two separate Ghost Riders, that they each deserved a Character box. I also tried to add a couple of images of each incarnation, and delete some superfluous information/personal opinions. Bhissong 03:21, 24 July 2006 (UTC)bhissong
 * Looks fantastic. Well done Noble Kale 04:36, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment. My pleasure. Bhissong 02:43, 30 July 2006 (UTC)bhissong
 * All said, though, I think it's time to split Johnny Blaze and Daniel Ketch into seperate articles - especially since there's a lot to be said about Johnny's movements post Ghost Rider-possession (ie: Kids, Roxanne Simpson, etc.). That way, the main Ghost Rider page can explain the family links and differences, while each individual page can explain the actual characters of the hosts. It's just looking pretty massive, and there's not much storyline detail. Noble Kale 04:36, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. I say, have at it. The page itself really is too long. I assume there would still be a modern "Ghost Rider" page, as well as separate "Johnny Blaze" and "Daniel Ketch" pages. Whoever's gonna do it, though, please post your plans/actions on this page so we know the scoop. Bhissong 15:00, 30 July 2006 (UTC)bhissong
 * Looks like they already been created... Any good? _> MonstaPro:Talk 13:14, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Removed Speculations
I removed speculations again from the Johnny Blaze Returns section. According to wikipedia editing policy, speculation and conjecture should not be included in an article. Therefore, statements like "This series seems to take place outside of the normal Ghost RIder mythos" (emphasis on "seems") is conjecture, and should be removed. The same goes for the sentence, "This series also seems to be an alternate reality." Bhissong 17:10, 25 July 2006 (UTC)bhissong

Other Spirits of Vengeance
We should probably drop a mention of the 'What if?' issue where Barbara was the Spirit of Vengeance as well... I'll need to find my copy of the issue.Noble Kale 04:39, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Naomi Kale
Kudos to Noble Kale for inclusion of the section on Naomi Kale. Definitely a character and aspect of the GR mythos that needs explaining. Nice job. Bhissong 01:27, 31 July 2006 (UTC)bhissong
 * No sweat. More to come, when I eventually read the entire set (funnily enough, I've had this volume 2 complete set since 2002, and not read them all). Especially since (to my vague recollection), Naomi Kale is the shadowy figure from the end of volume 2? Noble Kale 14:04, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Splitting the page
So, how does everyone feel about splitting the page? It's getting too large and a bit unwieldy. Noble Kale has suggested a split, and I agree. Perhaps a main, modern "Ghost Rider" page, with links to separate "Johnny Blaze" and "Daniel Ketch" pages. For example, check out the Hawkman page. It addresses the over-all character of DC's Hawkman, but then provides links to each individual incarnation (e.g., one for Carter Hall, one for Katar Hol, etc.). So, thoughts? Best we discuss this before someone makes the changes and then someone else pitches a fit, yes? Bhissong 18:55, 30 July 2006 (UTC)bhissong


 * Agreed. There are several good examples on how to do a hero page with seperate icarnations (Robin, for example). I'd break it down into Johnny Blaze, Daniel Ketch, and Noble Kale. Naomi could then go under the main Ghost Rider article, as a sub-section, or under the page for Noble Kale (under family, or as one of his hosts). This breakdown makes sense in a form, since Zarathos and Vengeance already have their own entries.


 * If no other changes were made, I'd like to see Blaze split off from this page. This would free up a lot of space, and give more room to expand on his character (ie: when he had the metallic side of his body, storyline of his kids, etc...). Cheers Noble Kale 14:04, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I like the idea of a Noble Kale page. Especially if you can get a nice image to go along with it. And it would seem fitting that a Namoi Kale sub-section would go with the Noble Kale page. Those two would fit together to make a nice article. So, yeah, maybe: Modern Ghost Rider page, linking to: Thoughts? Bhissong 15:59, 31 July 2006 (UTC)bhissong
 * Johhny Blaze page
 * Daniel Ketch page
 * Noble Kale page (including family information on Naomi)


 * No - I don't think we need a new page for every iteration of Ghost Rider. There are longer articles on Wikipedia, and to split them up would add little value and instead make Ghost Rider more confusing.  The only way it might work is to have a central GR page with short entries that link to longer articles for each individual Ghost Rider.  But I don't like the idea and think it's rather pointless.Rabidwolfe 05:20, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Hrmmm, yes... and no. See, the problem is, Johnny Blaze is pretty much a fully developed character in his own right. At present, a lot of the character motivation is missing in this article (ie: not even a bare mention of Roxanne Simpson).
 * I could conceive of a page for both Kale & Daniel Ketch together, since Daniel himself wasn't much without the Ghost Rider persona (at least, story line wise).. That way, Naomi Kale & Daniel Ketch could come under the heading of the Kale family on a Noble Kale page. Noble Kale 08:26, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

That makes sense. If Noble Kale and Daniel Ketch were included together, what would be the article title? Daniel Ketch? I just like the Daniel Ketch/Noble Kale Ghost Rider (I don't know why), and I want to keep his (their?) character box. I think as a character he's been around long enough to deserve that. Other than that, everything else sounds good. Bhissong 12:07, 1 August 2006 (UTC)bhissong


 * I would have to agree that it would be best to have a central GR page, with links to Johnny Blaze as a host, and Daniel Ketch as a host. I'd like to add that the whole Noble Kale retcon/"It's all a lie" was probably Marvel doing damage control, since they couldn't have an established Marvel superhero as the lord of Hell.Shin-Goji 12:10, 1 August 2006 (UTC)Shin-Goji

Thanks for your thoughts, Shin-Goji. Well, I guess all that's left is to decide how we want to split it. Definitely a main, modern Ghost Rider page. Definitely a Johnny Blaze page (since there's the most info on his incarnation as GR and as Blaze). And personally, I'd like to see a Daniel Ketch page (with an emphasis on Noble Kale, maybe). Thoughts? Bhissong 16:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)bhissong


 * (Hope I'm doing this editing right) I would say let's put Johnny Blaze on one page, with powers, abilities, and history with Zarathos, and inlude the Hammer Lane, Garth Ennis and currently running story since all those use Blaze as the host. Then with Ketch we have powers, abilities, history with Noble Kale, comments on how his appearance has influenced the currently running series and movie, even though Blaze is the host. We can also put Blaze's history and influence on the 90''s Ketch GR, since they are brothers.Shin-Goji 12:10, 1 August 2006 (UTC)Shin-Goji


 * If the consensus is for splitting the page, then as said before, there should be a main Modern GR page basically keep the current article as it is, but have the Blaze and Ketch sections with links to other, more in-depth articles.Rabidwolfe 04:42, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I am not an expert on the character in any of its incarnations; but now that Ketch & Blaze each have their own page it allows for many fringe events to be explored in more detail. There is not just comparison between comic and film, as I know the comic itself has a few different parts. Thanks: I can now place the few issues I have in the GR universe! :) _> MonstaPro:Talk 13:34, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Ghost/Blaze Appearances
Dunno if really intresting but "oldie goldie classic" Ghost/blaze appears also in :

Marvel Two-in-One #80 (no idea if is included in reprint)

Marvel Team Up v1 #15,58,91

Avengers v1 #214

Defenders v1 #96 88.149.169.237 03:50, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Always good to expand the appearance list. Noble Kale 04:43, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Of course it's interesting. Those were the days when GR was far less convoluted and a fun read. Unless you were a miscreant, cretin, or vermin. PJM 02:38, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

TV Series?
According to IMDB there was a Ghost Rider TV show, but it isn't mentioned in the article. Is this real?

http://imdb.com/title/tt0190183/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mustex (talk • contribs) 23:27, 16 December 2006 (UTC).


 * I vaguely remember a Ghost -Writer- TV show, aimed at kids. Lots42 00:44, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Vicious Cycle
Altered the line about Ghost Rider's (Johnny Blaze's) changed appearance in the new Vicious Cycle series.

Yes, he does look like the Daniel Ketch rider, and there is an explanation. The October 2k6 issue of Vicious Cycle features a section in the back called "Ghost Writers" where people write in to the comic authors. Here, assistant editor Michael O'Connor addresses the change as such:

"...Ghost Rider's clothes are a manifestation of his power, not an actual physical costume or uniform..."

He does not acknowledge that the appearance is based on the 2k7 film (and even in that Ghost Rider's appearance changes when he appropriates a new jacket.)

I have placed a scan of the letters to the editor page for reference. As a thumb and here, not entirely clear on how else to place it, but it's here for anybody curious on the change in appearance and the justification as to why.

TotalTommyTerror 19:06, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Film
Removed a line about the delay of the film due to X-Men the last stand and Superman movies.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/news/comments/?entryid=383666

A link to an article where Steven Johnston states the reasons for the delay (which weren't the summer movies.) TotalTommyTerror 19:15, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:GhostRiderTeaser.jpg
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Which GR volume are we in?
I visited Jack O'Lantern's article and found someone had mentioned his appearance in quote, "'Ghost Rider' vol. 5, #8" and I corrected it to "vol. 4." Now, I think I may be wrong, but on at least one comic buying website, they list the 2006 series as "Ghost Rider (2006 4th series)" which to me says vol. 4, not 5. So, what is the true volume number for the 2006, and current, GR series? I can't find anything that can verify it completely. I hope it's not one of those "well, it depends" issues where, i.e., if you count the Ennis mini-series, and the one in 2001 before it, then the 2006 ongoing series is vol. 5, but if you don't include the Ennis story it's vol. 4, but if you do this, etc., etc... Wilhelm Screamer 11:56, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Alternate Versions Of Ghost Rider
I think there are enough 'alternate' versions of Ghost Rider, in order to make a seperate section. We have Marvel Zombies one, Trail of Tears, Guardians of the Galaxy and I'm sure there are some out there we are missing. No Exiles one?

Anywho, I'd do it myself but I'm not confident enough in Wiki-fu to believe I can do it without completely screwing up the page.

Lots42 00:42, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of "Alternate," should the return of Blaze as the GR be moved into this category as it is part of Marvel Knights and such stories are considered "an alternate universe set outside of the mainstream Marvel continuity?" Upon reading this entry, there is absolutely no mention of this and the referenced section takes on the appearance of being part of the regular continuity with a seemingly disappearing Roxanne, Blaze's "new" girlfriend, and other changes. I would think this would cause some amount of confusion by implying that the new series is a direct continuation when I was under the impression that they are not. Malagant (talk) 08:44, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Goose Rider Vandalism
Someone replaced the intro with some nonsense about Gooserider.JettaMann 18:03, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ghost Rider 51.jpg
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Angel
The revelation is in Ghost Rider 18, page 23. Don't know how to fix citations in the article, so I write it here instead. Dracoster (talk) 12:02, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

No mention of Faust.
A man who makes a deal with the devil, who turns out to be named Mephisto, should mention Faust. Because that's what happens in Faust. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.176.159.83 (talk) 22:46, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

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 * Done. It needs a lot more references and the origins section could do with some honing as it is really just a couple of rather long blockquotes. (Emperor (talk) 17:28, 23 October 2008 (UTC))

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