Talk:Ghost pepper/Archive 1

Main Picture is Authentic and Freely Available
The photo in this article is the same as the one in the wikipedia, except sans attribution.

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/21815 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.116.132 (talk) 21:41, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I'll try to get a photo of Bih Jolokia. - User:psneog

The main photo of the Naga Jolokia peppers that has been uploaded to Wikipedia is my own photo which I have released into the public domain. I took it when I was in Tezpur India on the 11th of October 2006. I cropped this photo from a larger photo and can produce the larger un-cropped original on request to prove I took the picture. The other website must have taken it from Wikipedia without crediting me. - Gannon

Pure capsaicin
I corrected the incorrect 15,000,000 SU remark with the corrected 16,000,000 SU rating. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Peak203 (talk • contribs).
 * Pure Capsaicin is 15,000,000 SHUs. ppm is multiplied by 15 to get SHU. ergo, 1 million ppm = 15 million. -- Bovineone 06:40, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I've recently been researching capsaicin for a paper and I've seen both, but the 1.5x10^7 number is the only one used in peer-reviewed journals. I'll cite a few when I have a second. In the meantime, let's use 15,000,000 just to be internally consistant with Capsaicin -- horse dreamer 15:04, 3 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It's mathematically impossible for 1:15 conversion to result in anything more than 15,000,000. Links have been made regularly to ASTA method 21.1; here is one citation worthy example http://www.zarc.com/english/cap-stun/tech_info/oc/hplc.html Letting things such as this, that are BLATANTLY wrong, stand, simply detracts from the accuracy of the information offered here. I don't care how many times someone can cite a web page that states the inaccurate figure, it's still wrong.Tina Brooks

NPOV, Accuracy claims
I've added the NPOV, since all of the text that suggested the possibility of measurement inaccuracy has been removed without citing any additional sources. Is there any new evidence or published reports to suggest this change? -- Bovineone 06:54, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

words over the image
why the words over the image? it's not very professional... i'd rip them off. --Lo&#39;oris - ロホリス 12:49, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I've already asked the original uploader if it was possible to upload a larger image that did not include the text, but he said he was unable to (see User_talk:Skoppensboer). Maybe someone else could find a better quality image. -- Bovineone 01:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

If someone wants to tell me how to upload the pics, I have some great pics of nagas. -- Tina Brooks
 * There is an "Upload file" link at the left. --80.63.213.182 12:29, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Updated the Picture
I just got back from Tezpur. I bought the peppers and then took this photo in my Hotel room in Tezpur. The peppers were confirmed to be the Naga Jolokia by many locals. Gannon

External link
www.openrecordbook.com The Open Record Book has a small article here about this chili pepper. Should it be included in this article somewhere?--Leo628 13:25, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think so, their article is completely unsourced as far as I can see and doesn't provide any useful details that aren't already in the article. --Monotonehell 19:17, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Please don't spam this page. Skopp   ( Talk )  19:49, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Missing info?
This juices that this pepper excretes are known to produce a burning sensation on contact with human skin, usually occuring once the pepper is cut/sliced/diced. I know this is true from both first hand experience and reading it, but I have been unable to source the information or find a source which adequately describes the chemistry behind this. Perhaps someone knows of one. Smooth0707 01:55, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * That's true of any plant that contains capsaicin, and is simple common sense. Note: this is not a general chat page. Skopp   ( Talk )  03:48, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Merge with Dorset Naga
For my comments on this, go the Dorset Naga talk page. Skopp  ( Talk )  03:40, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

The name Bhut Jolokiya
The article explains the name as: Bhut = 'ghost', probably due to its ghostly bite or introduction by the Bhutias from Bhutan poison chili. However, the two explainations contradict each other.

The reason why not both can be true is that bhut "ghost" is spelled with regular t (ত) while the country name Bhutan is written with retroflex t (ট). In India, these sounds are considered as distinct as are D and T in English.

So the question is really how the name of the chili is written: if it is ভুট জলকীয়া, then the Bhutia explanation is correct, yet if it is ভুত জলকীয়া, then the name must mean "ghost chili". 87.123.75.177 17:17, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Its "ghostly bite?" That's kind of a stretch as far as word choice. 76.22.201.109 16:12, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Naga Jolokia and Dorset Naga
Are Naga Jolokia and Dorset Naga different? On the Scoville Scale page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoville_scale) it says 'The Red Savina™ pepper, one of the hottest chilis, is rated at 580,000 SHU. Only Naga Jolokia and Dorset Naga are hotter.' This suggests they are different both the pages it link to seem to contain exactly the same information. Are they in fact the same pepper? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.154.28.46 (talk • contribs).
 * The Dorset Naga is claimed to simply be a "cultivar" of Naga Jolokia, though it is unclear how significant the genetic differences (if any) are between the two. I think the growers of the Dorset Naga have freely admited that they used the Naga Jolokia.  The reported differences in scoville measurements between the two are within reasonable experimental measurement range, so perhaps they are simply two names for the same thing. -- Bovineone 21:28, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Not only are Naga Jolokia and and the Dorset Naga distinct strains, but the Bih and Bhut are also distinct. Here is a side by side comparison

"Bih Jolokia, a slightly more compact plant which holds about 70 to 80 fruit. Fruits are about 2" to 3" long,

"Bhut Jolokia, taller and a little more stretched with a disappointing amount of fruit, maybe 20 to 30. We hand pollinated the first fruits that seemed to grow really well. Fruit on the Bhut Jolokia are typically between 3" to 31/2" long."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shockingelk (talk • contribs) 06:01, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

"Love and Pride"
represented by the aggressive temperament of the warriors of neighbouring Naga Community. is a prejudiced statement that the Nagas have 'aggresive temperament' and that they are 'warriors' implying in today's context violent and extremist. This hurts the sentiments of the Nagas. There fore this may please be modified as "possibly stemming from the love and pride the Naga Community have for the chili."


 * You need to give us a source for this change. We cannot change the encyclopedia because you don't like it. Also, please sign your posts here. Skopp   ( Talk )  14:29, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Looks like the content you so curtly defended is now gone. To satirize your kind rebuttal to a legitimate complaint, YOU cannot prevent change to the encyclopedia because YOU claim a source is needed. There are many reasons to alter verbiage here at Wikipedia. Oh and I'll sign this post just for you. 24.247.170.144 (talk) 14:20, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

This chilli is eaten?
The pepper is used as a spice in food or eaten alone.

How could this chilli possibly ever be eaten alone? Can anyone cite a source for this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.65.170.134 (talk) 08:38, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * See this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvK2Y1hv9mY -- SonicAD (talk) 04:02, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This chilli is used as a spice in food in the Manipur state of India, where it is known as Oomorok (meaning, tree pepper). It is put in generous amount in a dish made out of mashed boiled potatoes with added fermented fish, to make it really hot. The dish is called eromba in Manipuri language. The hottest form in which it is eaten, is in pickled form. The pickle is so hot that just licking the pickle oil with your finger makes your tongue hot! I am living in the midst of a community of Manipuris who love this chilli. --Tabish q (talk) 18:13, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Content called into question
I've noted that the section entitled "Uses" is a verbatim replication of the text located here: http://www.taste whatshot.com/ jolokia.html.

I don't know which came first, the Wiki edit or the tastewhatshot.com page, I am merely bringing this to someone else's attention. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.95.36.13 (talk) 23:36, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Our page came first, and I wrote most of it, so I know. I've despammed the link by breaking it up. ► RATEL ◄ 01:27, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Is really Naga Morich the same as Bhut Jolokia?
Webs like The Chilli Seed Company or Semillas La Palma seem to suggest that Naga Morich is not actually the same cultivar as Bhut Jolokia. --83.50.137.44 (talk) 22:31, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Dorset Naga wikilinks
I removed the Dorset Naga wikilinks since the link redirects to this very article. If I knew how, I would insert links to the section on Dorset Naga in this article. Could someone else do that? DBlomgren (talk) 21:58, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Not needed. ► RATEL ◄ 23:47, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Appearance claims
This article claims "They are similar in appearance to the Habanero pepper, but have a rougher, dented skin" referring to Naga Morich/Bhut Jolokia peppers. This is absurd. They have a completely different shape, a different color, and their flavor is totally different as is the capsaicin level. I grow both Naga Morich and Habanero peppers. A 2 year old would know instantly that they are not the same. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skyjerk (talk • contribs) 16:12, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Use of the word "Pain"
I don't believe the word "pain" in the uses section is appropriate. For people not accustomed to eating hot peppers it is often described as pain but to those who actually enjoy the sensation it gives would use the term "heat".

Although I do believe this may end up sounding more biased towards pepper-eaters in particular and may take emphasis away from how ridiculously powerful this chilli actually is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.2.176.116 (talk) 18:14, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

For comparison
"'For comparison, pure capsaicin rates at 15,000,000–16,000,000 Scoville units.'"

Does anyone else find this sentence a little silly? I mean, how does this actually facilitate comparison for any real-life person? How many of us have consumed pure capsaicin? I think that we should compare it to something more familiar, like jalapeños or maybe habaneros; Something that most people have eaten before, and can therefore relate to. I would just do the edit myself, but I don't know anything about chili peppers, so these articles are out of my comfort zone. Anyway, does anyone agree? Djk3 (talk) 18:17, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think we should leave it as is. It demonstrates the rating of the hottest pepper on Earth with the rating of pure capsaicin, its isolated component.--Metalhead94 (talk) 15:24, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I added a reference to Tabasco RPS. While seeing how far the Scoville scale goes on the high end is interesting trivia (and should remain in the article IMHO), it isn't a point of reference for people, because very few ones will ever have touched pure capsaicin. Tabasco, on the other hand, is something even the not-hot-eaters among us should be able to relate to. -- DevSolar (talk) 12:31, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Dorset Naga section
I address this to user Joy.Michaud. Please do not spam the encyclopaedia. Only well sourced data is allowable. This page is not here to promote your seed-selling business. If you continue to revert the non-spammed version with links to your site and claims about SHUs that cannot be verified, I shall take it to the admins. ► RATEL ◄ 08:40, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi Ratel. In 2006, the BBC sent samples from several different chilies to Warwick Horticulture Research International at Warwick University in the UK. This was part of their "Gardener's World" programming. BBCV has removed the page, but the results are available through archive.org:

The hottest chillies


 * 1) Chilli 'Dorset Naga', 1598227 SHU
 * 2) Chilli 'Caribbean Red Hot', 530283 SHU
 * 3) Chilli 'Orange Habanero', 487672 SHU
 * 4) Chilli 'Fiesta' (grown outdoors), 286185 SHU
 * 5) Chilli 'Scotch Bonnet', 265054 SHU
 * 6) Chilli 'Apache', 103282 SHU
 * 7) Chilli 'Fiesta' (grown indoors), 102328 SHU
 * 8) Chilli 'Paper Lantern', 85486 SHU
 * 9) Chilli 'Adorno', 67726 SHU
 * 10) Chilli 'Etna', 65937 SHU

SHU - Scovile Heat Units

Does the link above qualify as independent verification?

Cheers!

Dorset Naga
Why does anyone care that somebody bought some peppers and planted them and they grew? The Indian tabloid references are laughable. Advertise elsewhere. .froth. (talk) 00:07, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Name of article / intro
I'm making an assumption that "Naga Jolokia" is the term that is used in India. (I'm American) The "English" translation should be renamed something else like "In the US" or whatever the exact case may be. Right now its weird because you'd assume that Naga Jolokia already was "English" since its in the English Wikipedia. So to translate from English to English is odd.

I'm also not sure this is the best name for the article. Perhaps "Naga Jolokia" isn't English. So I guess my questions are: - Assuming its an Indianism, is Naga Jolokia the common term for this pepper when an Indian is speaking English? Or do they say "King Cobra" - If so, is this the term that most English speakers around the world would use? (Since I've never heard of this pepper, I'd guess that most Americans would not have heard of either term either.) - Since all peppers are native to the Americas, its a little strange that we'd use a term that is clearly not from a language used in the Americas.

Just some thoughts. Ehlkej (talk) 22:26, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I have never heard of the 'King Cobra' useage until seeing this article. I have only ever heard these referred to as 'Naga'. This link to an online retailer shows a large number of products available all using the Naga name. 188.220.16.145 (talk) 07:37, 7 August 2009 (UTC) [http://http://www.scorchio.co.uk/advanced_search_result.php?keyword s=naga&search_in_description=0&HCid=7b805a0f984ad3783641d975 fe824b70&x=0&y=0 Scorchio]

Naga is not Cobra, nor it is Bhut or Ghost!
Naga does not refer to king cobra. It refers to a collection of warrior tribes residing in north east India. Because they are fierce warriors, things extreme are used to be named after them. There are Naga Barries which are extremely sour, Naga matchets, (big and sharp knives) and so on.

It is not "Bhut" or ghost! It is "Bhot" - meaning something introduced by the Bhutanese people. Since this country is adjacent to the region, they often come down to do business with assamese people.

Finally, when I corrected these things in the main page, it was reverted. Probably it is a good thing, so somebody with knowledge incorporate my information. I am a native to the region. Nagaland is a mare 20 to 30 KM away from my home.

Prabhakar (talk) 09:55, 15 October 2009 (UTC)


 * That's all just your opinion. Got any references for that? Ever considered that the ancient Sanskrit word naga is behind all the uses of Naga you mention above? ► RATEL ◄ 21:03, 15 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The etymology-like section does need to be sourced, otherwise it should be removed until such time that it can. JBsupreme (talk) 15:49, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Given that this information has been contested and is without a source, I will be removing it within a reasonable period of that time due to lack of verifiability. JBsupreme (talk) 21:17, 17 November 2009 (UTC)


 * A good indigenous source has been located and is now used on the page. The article may need renaming to bhoot chile or Naga king chili based on this published source. ► RATEL ◄ 09:12, 18 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Also, please note this controversy Bhut? Bhot? From Bhutan? Ghost? ► RATEL ◄  07:16, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for replying, finally, 3 months later. It does not need renaming as this pepper is most commonly referred to as "Bhut Jolokia" by reliable third party sources.  It is rarely ever referred to as "Naga king chili" or "bhoot chile".  It is however frequently referred to as "Naga jolokia" and "Ghost chili".  JBsupreme (talk) 09:01, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * That assamtimes article reads like a blog post. I'm not sure its very reliable and wouldn't think to use it in this encyclopedia or any other. JBsupreme (talk) 09:07, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Confirmed. Please do not cite assamtimes.org here, it will be removed as it is simply a user-generated site.  JBsupreme (talk) 09:09, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I see you have decided to ignore the published research paper, cited on the page, from India that states that "ghost" is a mistranslation. Why? the Western, English speaking sources you are using are far inferior on this topic, and most simply echo data from this wikipage. ► RATEL ◄ 10:17, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Allow me to call BULLSHIT on your claim. Show me where National Geographic, a highly trusted and reliable source of information, is citing Wikipedia.  In fact, show me where any of the reliable sources, including  National Geographic, MSNBC, The Guardian, or the Herald Tribune are citing Wikipedia.  Sorry dude, a single academic paper does not automatically dismiss hundreds of other reliable sources.  I'm more than willing to discuss this but you cannot keep adding unsourced misinformation to this article (as you have done several times now) AND THEN go about deleting perfectly reliable sources from an article.  That's ridiculous.  JBsupreme (talk) 10:25, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

By the way, I'm done editing this for the indefinite future. Go ahead and delete all the "inferior" sources you want guy. Have at it. JBsupreme (talk) 10:26, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Goodbye then. BTW, I find it ironic that yr talk page features admonishments to "keep a cool head" and "See also: Wikipedia:Etiquette". Really quite amusing, given this uncouth and temperamental display. [[Image:Wink.gif|20px]] ► RATEL ◄ 11:04, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * This coming from the guy saying "ffs" ("for fucks sake") on my own talk page. The same guy who keeps adding misinformation to the article.  Also, coincidentally, the same guy who keeps removing a half dozen highly reliable sources because he believes that a single sentence from a single academic paper not only trumps them all but also invalidates them.  JBsupreme (talk) 18:58, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, well, when it comes to the origin and meaning of an Indian word, we must defer to the Indians. Not to do so would be racist and paternalistic. Imagine if they started telling us what our language and names mean. The fact that many respected RSes have run with an error in nomenclature (which I suspect is largely wikipedia's fault, since I think I created this page or worked on it from early on, and there was no info out there then) should not mean that we perpetuate the mistake. As good editors, we must make a judgement about sources. I'm not going to ignore excellent Indian academic sources (which just happen to be backed up by local bloggy sources in Assam). That's why I'm a good editor. ► RATEL ◄ 23:42, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * You know what else is interesting, it appears that the New Mexico State University article from the Department of Plant and Environmental Sciences that started it all was co-authored by an Indian named Jit Baral. To use your own words, we must defer to the Indians.  No need for you to apologize, just fix the damn article.  JBsupreme (talk) 08:40, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * As an interesting aside for editors concerned about accuracy, I've found these informal comments on the web, which may spur some of our Indian editors on to do further research in their own literature and language, and perhaps add data to the page to make things crystal clear:


 * I am a native of Assam and have grown up stuffing myself with ”Bhoot Jolokia” that you have rechristened as ”Bhut Jolokia”.


 * In Ujoni Oxom ( in and around Tinsukia district ), the 'jolokias' in question are called ' bhoot jolokia or ' bih jolokia '. The name ' bhot jolokia' is perhaps unheard of in that part of the world.

Over to other editors on this one. ► RATEL ◄ 00:36, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Given the esoteric nature of the article, I have no problem with a full discussion of all variants - the best way forward is to explain in the body of prose who says what (make sentences concur with refs) - i.e. flesh out the nature of conflicting etymologies on the page. The article is of a size to easily accommodate this. I have to look at the history a bit to figure out specifics. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:56, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm taking the rest of the week off from this article Casliber, but feel free to take a stab at it as you feel would be appropriate. JBsupreme (talk) 06:56, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Predictably, your promise to stop editing here was "bullshit", to use your chosen epithet. ► RATEL ◄


 * Most of us can make the distinction between discussion and editing of an article. Cheers,  JBsupreme (talk) 07:11, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Bhoot, Bhut, Bhot
At the heart of this is the word bhut or bhoot. I suspect the pronunciation is identical. We need a local person or at least someone who knows the local language to tell us definitively which one is correct. I take it that bhoot means "large" or "large pod", which is quite true in relation to this chili's very large, broad pod. The application of "ghost" is obscure, and local indigenous people are very unlikely to have given an esoteric or symbolic name to a plant. They prefer the directly descriptive and practical. The other popular name is "naga" jolokia, which denotes the region/people, or "bih" which denotes poison (descriptive), or "umorok" which denotes the small tree-like habit of the plant. I therefore find the "ghost" appellation both strained and improbable. Note about National Geographic and other non-Indian or Anglophone sources: they were all published after wikipedia's article about the pepper, in which much misinformation existed. The "ghost" translation seems to have proceeded from there, or from Bosland's first paper. While we cannot do OR on this, we must either find better sources or document the doubts. ► RATEL ◄ 07:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

There is another wrinkle, in that the word Bhot, meaning of or from Bhutan, has been posited (see above). I hereby resurrect an anonymous comment from archive 1 of this talk page: ...bhut "ghost" is spelled with regular t (ত) while the country name Bhutan is written with retroflex t (ট). In India, these sounds are considered as distinct as are D and T in English. So the question is really how the name of the chili is written: if it is ভুট জলকীয়া, then the Bhutia explanation is correct, yet if it is ভুত জলকীয়া, then the name must mean "ghost chili" ...

In my opinion, both "large" and "Bhutanese" (Bhutan is a hilly region adjacent to the area where the peppers are found) are more likely than "ghost". ► RATEL ◄ 07:57, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * You are full of opinions, and it is interesting how you are willing to delete references (such as National Geographic) based upon the unfounded claim that they somehow got their information from Wikipedia. I see that the translation was first printed by the Associated Press, not Wikipedia, for example this article in the Southeastern Missourian dated February 24, 2007.   This is now the third time I am asking you to back up your claim that the multitudes of reliable publications are somehow getting their information from Wikipedia (which they obviously are not) without providing proof.  I sense the reason you haven't put up or shut up yet is that you have none.  JBsupreme (talk) 08:05, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Furthermore, there is evidence of this pepper referred to as a "ghost chili" one week prior by New Mexico State University Regent’s Professor Paul Bosland on February 16, 2007 which resulted in digg and the Associated Press coverage (see above). Guinness World Records acknowledges it by the same name as well, awarding recognition to the professor in the fall of 2006.  This is many, many months before it is added to the fledgling Wikipedia article.    Your claim that sources somehow derived the name from Wikipedia is demonstrably false.  JBsupreme (talk) 08:13, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Please try to make your comments about the page, and not about me. I have not stated that they got their info from wikipedia, even though the wikipedia article does predate them and most journalists use wikipedia as a silent source, merely that it's a possibility. There is a dearth of information on this pepper in academic papers published in English. We don't go to newspapers, Guinness book of Records and google to find exact botanical names. You don't have much more to contribute to this debate, other than vitriol, so why not leave it now to the millions who read the 'pedia, including those from India? ► RATEL ◄ 08:20, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Now you're just backpedaling. I see you've been editing this article for quite some time, but newsflash you do not WP:OWN it.  The "possibility" that this has been used as a silent source has been disproven as the Associated Press, Guiness World Records, and New Mexico State University (which houses its own Chile Pepper Institute) all have referred to the Bhut Jolokia as the Ghost chili/chile long before it was mentioned on Wikipedia.  Its great that one student believes it was a mistranslation, but even if that is the case it is the common name, the second most referred to name, right or wrong it belongs in the article.  Please restore the sources, and do it promptly. JBsupreme (talk) 08:29, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * The academic status of one of the authors of a peer-reviewed published paper is of no interest to us. Many PhDs are still "students" in one way or another. Your petulant attacks on me on this page are becoming exceedingly tiresome. There is no need to cite "ghost", unless you want to do so in the Etymology controversy section, and do it properly this time (not just a bare url the way you have been doing, like a rank beginner), and only one or two (we never give strings of citations for one fact). The bhut word was mentioned in mid-2006 in wikipedia, so that's before Guinness's involvement, AFAIR. ► RATEL ◄ 08:40, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Prove it. Right now.  Cite a diff.  Find one that predates Fall 2006, please.  Also note that the New Mexico State University HortScience publication was also co-authored by an Indian person.  JBsupreme (talk) 08:43, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * "Fall" where? There are 2 hemispheres, which may surprise you. ► RATEL ◄ 08:47, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Pick the one that works to your own advantage. JBsupreme (talk) 08:48, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * We added "bhut" to the page in mid-2006 . Now whether that means 'ghost' is the issue. I think Bosland came up with that, perhaps from his Indian colleague, who knows, or from a dictionary, but we need much more input to make a decision, and if no definitive source exists, the controversy should be documented in the etymology section. We cannot have a stream of Indians coming to this page and writing sections that dispute the ghost translation, saying that they live in the region and that this is wrong. I think this page should be highlighted on the India project page for the attention of the people most concerned, rather than ethnocentric Americans. <span style="color:#646464; font-weight:bold; font-size:9px; border:2px solid #FFCC33;background-color:#cde0fc; padding: 2px 10px; letter-spacing: 6px;">► RATEL ◄ 08:58, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * There you go again. You think but you have no idea.  Wow.  I would tend to trust a university publication which has a horticultural department which, mind you, specializes in peppers authored by two people (one of which is Indian) over any of the other sources in this entire article, period.  It is definitive enough in that the source New Mexico State University is as reliable as reliable sources come, furthered by the fact that it is the most common usage, bar none.  I think this discussion is over but you're welcome to highlight this on as many India projects as you'd like.  JBsupreme (talk) 09:09, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not interested in pissing matches. I've contacted the author of the paper concerned and a member if the wikiproject Assam. I think I'll wait for their input rather than engaging in pointless handwaving. <span style="color:#646464; font-weight:bold; font-size:9px; border:2px solid #FFCC33;background-color:#cde0fc; padding: 2px 10px; letter-spacing: 6px;">► RATEL ◄ 09:12, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * You said "authored by two people (one of which is Indian)" and now you've gone ahead and modified the article with that opinion. A 5-min check of Google would have revealed that Dr Jit B. Baral, Bosland's "Indian" co-author, is in fact a prominent Nepalese and a member of the Nepalese Americas Council (NAC). I've therefore removed your erroneous edit. It's this sort of high-handed, sloppy, careless, presumptuous editing that is ruining the page, and I am asking you to please stop it, or make good on your promise to go away. Thanks. <span style="color:#646464; font-weight:bold; font-size:9px; border:2px solid #FFCC33;background-color:#cde0fc; padding: 2px 10px; letter-spacing: 6px;">► RATEL ◄ 01:13, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment from the Asian Age
This comment from a major newspaper, highlights my concerns:

Original source for "ghost"
Bosland seems to be the one who came up with the "ghost" translation: “The name Bhut Jolokia translates as ‘ghost chile, I think it’s because the chile is so hot, you give up the ghost when you eat it,” he said.

Do we have another primary source? <span style="color:#646464; font-weight:bold; font-size:9px; border:2px solid #FFCC33;background-color:#cde0fc; padding: 2px 10px; letter-spacing: 6px;">► RATEL ◄ 09:38, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

use of the adjective "indigenous" is technically incorrect
All capsicum species are indigenous to the new world, none to the old world. Capsicums spread to Asia, and in this case to India via the 'Colombian Exchange'. Certainly in the case of this cultivar, Naga Jolokia, may well have been developed in and come from India. However it is botanically incorrect to state that any capsicum/pepper species, hybrid or cultivar is indigenous to anywhere other than Central or South America.

Hence I suggest that instead of this sentence found in the introduction, "It is a naturally occurring inter-specific hybrid indigenous to the Assam region" should be altered to say something to the effect of, 'It is a naturally occurring inter-specific hybrid originating from/developed in/created in from the Assam region' or something like that.

-Morabeza79 22:48, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Another source
An article in The Guardian today about its use by the Indian Army: "Bhut jolokia, or 'ghost chilli', to be used for teargas-like grenades to immobilise suspects, defence officials say". 86.133.53.54 (talk) 12:56, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Translation of its name
The article says that it's called "ghost pepper" by the Western world, "possibly erroneously". The direct translation of bhut jolokia is "ghost pepper" so this translation is not erroneous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.150.40.239 (talk) 17:32, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree this is not an erroneous translation. The article mentioned also no longer exists (the link is broken). I think this entry should be changed. Sportsbettor123 (talk) 00:53, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Bhut also means "too much" or "too many". It is often used as a way to say something is great. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.87.52.166 (talk) 02:25, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

The meaning of "great" overlaps with the meaning "large", which is already cited on the page. BTW, these comments are only useful if backed up with sources. <span style="color:#646464; font-weight:bold; font-size:50%; border:2px solid #FFCC33;background-color:#cde0fc; padding: 2px 10px; letter-spacing: 6px;">► RATEL ◄ 04:24, 25 March 2010 (UTC)


 * And this page is only useful if it has working links. 98.198.83.12 (talk) 22:50, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Is it generally acknowledged as the hottest in the world?
There is now the Dorset Naga and a Naga grown in Grantham UK which claims to be the hottest chillies in the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.109.8 (talk) 19:14, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Thats the same chilli. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.140.95 (talk) 22:44, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

No longer the hottest chilli
No longer the hottest in the world - now superceded by the Naga Viper according to the 2011 Guinness Book of Records [ref http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335043/Worlds-hottest-chilli-grown-Cumbria.html]81.129.133.146 (talk) 17:19, 2 December 2010 (UTC)