Talk:Gian Carlo Menotti/Archive 1

Error
The article states that Menotti had a relationship with Thomas Schippers after the death of Samuel Barber. That doesn't seem terribly likely given that Barber died in 1981 and Schippers in 1977 (according to their respective articles.) There must be an error here somewhere. Isomorphic 03:36, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The fact that Menotti and Schippers were lovers is mentioned here, here, and here. I had a different source again in mind, but I can't seem to track it down.  Seems I've made an assumption about the timing of the Menotti-Schippers relationship.  It certainly wasn't after Barber's death.  But whether it was prior to Menotti's partnership with Barber, or during it, or both, is not stated.   JackofOz 14:37, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I think I may be able to help you with half your time-line problem. Menotti entered the Curtis Institute of Music in 1928 at the age of 17, and according to many sources almost immediately befriended Barber, who had enrolled on 1 October 1924 at the tender age of 14. I don't know exactly when they started their sexual relationship, but I know that Barber was living with Menotti in Italy in 1933, and for that reason missed the American premiere of "The School for Scandal" overture. At that time Schippers, who was born in 1930, would have been 3, so I venture to conclude that the relationship between him and Menotti started somewhat after that, and may have lasted till the untimely death of Schippers in 1977. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.73.206.166 (talk) 13:16, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. Btw, I've removed your email - leaving it there is likely to result in your getting spammed. JackofOz 13:25, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

This article is rather coy about Menotti's relationship to Barber. I's first mentioned atr the point when he leaves him. Surely this is relevant biographical information that should appear in sequence? Adam Cuerden talk 17:30, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Or maybe I just can't read. Adam Cuerden talk 12:20, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Laura Branigan Reference
Sorry to tell you, but the reference in the article to Laura Branigan giving credit to Carlo Menotti as voice coach IS correct, but he is NOT the same Carlo Menotti.

The Carlo Menotti in question was actually Carlo Lefavi Menotti, a voice coach who was born in Brazil and taught in New York until his death around 1994-95. He was approximately same age as Gian Carlo Menotti.

I know this, because Maestor C L Menotti was my voice coach in 1993 and I remember all of his memorabilia and letters from Ms. Branigan to him as her teacher. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chadpisaneschi (talk • contribs) 19:44, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Meaning?

 * He wrote the libretti to two Samuel Barber operas, Vanessa and A Hand of Bridge, as well as revising the latter for Antony and Cleopatra.

What does "the latter" refer to? JackofOz 21:09, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


 * "the latter" would be referring to the libretto. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Scottandrewhutchins (talk • contribs) 20:06, 10 February 2007 (UTC).

"The latter" has since been changed to "the libretto", which is clearly more logical. TheScotch (talk) 11:54, 19 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you. --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   17:55, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Books by Menotti
Should scores be listed as "books by Menotti"? I haven't seen this done in any other articles. If no one has objected in a day or so I'm going to remove them. Chris 19:12, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


 * With the two sections "books about" and "books by", the index makes one feel that Menotti was a writer or something. But he was a composer! Please remove the two sub-sections headings or make them smaller and not visible in the TOC.

Hollingsworth
The reference to his "most famous" pupil being a Stanley Hollingsworth has been removed; it's a subjective assesment of no biographical importance to the biography of this important composer, and appears to be an attempt at "shilling"

Was he gay?
This article is in the GLBT category, but nowhere in the article is anything about his sexuality. I'm not an expert on Menotti, so perhaps someone else with knowledge (and references!) can fill in this info? --Dablaze 16:42, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

He and Samuel Barber were a couple. Most biographies allude to this without spelling it out. GLBTQ.com confirms that Menotti and Barber were an openly gay couple, and it was more or less accepted as artists' eccentricity. I hope he had enough money to get his body moved so he can be buried next to Barber. He was concerned it would not happen because he had no savings and was primarily living off royalties from Amahl and Globolinks. --Scottandrewhutchins 22:30, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

That's weird --Coolgyingman 18:32, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I understand that many believe that he had an affair with Thomas Schippers, with whom he had a professional relationship. I don't think that there is any confirmation of it, however. --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 18:31, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: Thomas Schippers, please read paragraph below by Jonathan Baker. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.175.67.124 (talk) 20:27, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Laura Branigan's vocal coach
There is another more plausible candidate for being Laura Branigan's vocal coach.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CEFD9173EF932A0575BC0A965958260

Unless someone knows for a fact that Gian Carlo Menotti and not Carlo Lifavi Menotti was Branigan's vocal coach, this spectactularly interesting, but, sadly, misleading piece of trivia should be removed from the article


 * Agreed; it seems there are two Carlo Menottis, born two years apart, wavy black hair, unmarried, who studied classical theory and opera in Italy, came to the U.S. from Latin America, and ultimately taught on the East Coast...an astonishing coincidence, an understandably erroneous attribution. Abrazame 01:25, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I also agree --Coolgyingman 18:36, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Removed apparent vandalism
hi All, I just saw this line...

"He thought it would be "naughty" to die in Monte Carlo."

right after the section about his death. It appears to have snuck in about a year ago and hasn't been removed. Given the tone and the lack of citation, this appears to be vandalism and I've removed it. If someone can back it up with a source and re-write it to fit with the style of the rest of the article, I'm open to let it back in.

Thanks! Fred (talk) 14:26, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I submitted it. I couldn't remember the source of it, though.  I'm pretty sure it was in one of the online obits. --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 18:00, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I found this. Sounds like I was attrubuiting it to one of Menotti's friends, if this is indeed where I got it from...  http://operachic.typepad.com/opera_chic/2007/02/menotti_funeral.html  --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 18:28, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Works by Menotti
There should really be a list of works for this composer. Please see the German wiki ( http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gian_Carlo_Menotti#Werke ) which is nicely done. A list of works is pretty much standard for all important composers, just have a look at some.

Capricorn
from the article it would seem that Barber and Menotti moved to Capricorn "after graduation" which is true, but it was quite a few years after graduation from Curtis - in 1943 according to most accounts, when Barber would have been about 33, and Menotti about 32.

Capricorn was sold in 1973 - which makes another minor revision. They did not live there for "forty" years, but only "thirty". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Diaphora (talk • contribs) 14:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Old page history
Some old page history that used to be at the title "Gian Carlo Menotti" can now be found at Talk:Gian Carlo Menotti/Old history. Graham 87 09:43, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Note by Jonathan Baker
Regarding the matter of Menotti's relationship with Thomas Schippers:

I was a friend and assistant to Thomas Schippers when he was principal conductor of the Metropolitan Opera, and I was also the adopted son of Walter Baker, concert organist, who was arguably Schipper's first sustained romantic relationship. It is not likely that all of Schipper's relationships can be accurately listed, given the complexity and compartmentalization of his life. At the time Schippers'studied at the Curtis Conservatory (from which he was later evicted, and for which he never forgave them) he lived with Walter Baker. Schippers was then about 16, and Baker around 35. Schippers worked as Baker's assistant-organist at the First Baptist Church for several of those years and modeled his stage demeanor on the suave and charismatic persona of Baker. Their relationship broke up because, as Walter Baker told me directly, Schippers' bi-sexuality and free-wheeling romantic life was more than Baker cared to contend with. Later on, Schippers took up with Menotti (among many others). Both Baker and Menotti eventually came to resent Schippers, both men feeling that they had been 'used' as stepping-stones by Schippers' to push his ascent to fame and fortune. Schippers was certainly a world-class opportunist, it is true, but there may have been an element of professional jealousy on the part of both Baker and Menotti as Schippers' fame reached extraordinary heights.

Jonathan Baker,

New York City, May 16th, 2016 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.152.10.31 (talk) 15:27, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Italian-American?
Why "American" in "Italian-American"? Did Menotti become a naturalized American? 86.132.223.205 (talk) 19:52, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Fellow student Bernstein?
Re: "Fellow students at Curtis included Leonard Bernstein and Samuel Barber." Surely that Bernstein reference is an error, because in 1928 Bernstein was only ten years old, and the Bernstein Wikipedia page only says that Bernstein came to Curtis eleven years later. Bhami (talk) 17:18, 7 February 2018 (UTC)


 * It is in error, Menotti graduated in 1933 and Bernstein arrived in 1939. I removed it.4meter4 (talk) 17:15, 8 March 2021 (UTC)