Talk:Gideon Sundback

Untitled
My father was a late-1930s-early-40s Stevens Tech, Hoboken, student of “the guy who invented the (modern) zipper.” I believe he referred to Gideon Sundback, though I can’t remember the actual name. I do, however, recall his nickname, as he was called by the students: Cookie. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TestYourLevel (talk • contribs) 17:15, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

More about the zipper
Sundback, a mechanical engineer, was hired as a designer at the Universal Fastener Company. Because he was married to the daughter of the plant’s manager as well as being a talented designer, he was able to secure the position of head designer. One of the main components of this job was to find ways to improve the pre-existing Judson C-curity Fastener developed by Whitcomb L. Judson which had many flaws in its design. The original “Clasp-Locker” was developed when one of Judson’s friends with a sore back was having difficulties doing up his boots, so he developed a simpler hook-an-eye fastener that was easier to close than laces. With the death of his beloved wife in the year 1911, Sundback dedicated a larger amount of time to redeveloping the Judson C-curity Fastener and thus the zipper was born. His patent was filed in the year of 1917, describing the new zipper with features such as an increased number of teeth from four per inch to approximately 10 per square inch. It was easy to fasten as the two opposing sets of teeth were clasped together by a slider that could attach and detach the teeth with a simple up or down movement. In addition to this, Sundback also developed the machinery called the Scrapless (S-L) that was used to produce the zipper on a massive scale. The machine crafted the teeth of the zipper, and attached them onto long strips of fabric allowing a couple hundred feet of zipper to be manufactured on a daily basis. “Zipper was not the original name that the fastener was patented under. It was termed the “Separable Fastener” by Sundback. The actual name “Zipper” was not thought of by the inventor, but was rather coined by one of his first customers: The B.F. Goodrich company who used the fastener on a new pair of boots. The name Zipper was chosen because it was an easy to use and fast fastener to use as it could be easily used with one hand. The Zipper was originally only used on items such as boots and tobacco pouches. It was not until thirty years after this that the fashion industry finally decided to allow the Zipper to make its debut in the world of fashion clothing. When they did enter the clothing industry, it was in the form of the zippered fly on men’s trousers. The French designers who used it first claimed that it was a new sensation that would prevent “the possibility of unintentional and embarrassing disarray." Today, Zippers are used for a multitude of applications anywhere from luggage to the latest in clothing to footwear. The options for Zippers are truly limitless and this has never been as obvious as it is now with thousands of miles of zippers being manufactured daily that we are dependant upon this simple machine for completing the simplest daily tasks in our lives that we take for granted on a daily basis.  Could you imagine life without the Zipper? Sorces: http://www.coolquiz.com/trivia/explain/docs/zipper.asp http://inventors.about.com//library/weekly/aa082497.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.221.81.98 (talk) 00:44, 6 April 2006‎ (UTC)

Sundback's nationality
Do you have any reliable sources that in any way justify describing Sundback as "Canadian"? He lived in Hoboken, NJ and Meadville, PA when he made his improvements to the zipper. He was living in Meadville when he died. (And I can give you as many reliable sources for those as you like.) The only connection to Canada that I've been able to find is that for a while he was the president of Talon Zipper's Canadian subsidiary in St. Catherines, Ontario. I can't even find anything that unequivocally states that he lived in Canada while he was president of the subsidiary. And even if he did, I don't think that qualifies him as "Canadian" unless he actually became a Canadian citizen, or at least at some point was living there with the intention of staying permanently, neither of which I can find any evidence for. He was also the president of Talon's subsidiary in Mexico; should we call him Mexican on the basis of that?

If he really did become a Canadian citizen or something, then at most he was Swedish/American/Canadian. But without a source I don't see any jusification for mentioning Canada at all. And there's certainly no justification for *deleting* the fact that he was American. Reverting. Anonymous55 00:24, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Sundback was a naturalized US citizen
G. Sundback was born in Sweden and became a naturalized US citizen. He was never a citizen of Canada.

The authoritative history of the early development of the slide fastener (and Sundback's contribution) is Robert Friedel, Zipper, An Exploration in Novelty, W. W. Norton & Company, ISBN 0-393-03599-9 hardcover). The article would benefit from an edit to correct information that is inconsistent with Friedel.

Sundback had sold non-US rights to his patents to the Brits, and, in 1924, the Brits founded Lightning Fastener Company in Quebec. In 1925 Sundback took back non-US Western Hemisphere rights, took control of the Canadian company, and moved it to St Catherines Ontario. He was President until he died in 1954. In that time, he traveled to St. Catherines weekly from his home in Meadville, Pennsylvania.

QuatSkinner 16:54, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that Americans would take full credit for the production of any company located in the US, with American workers, which had a Canadian owner/president. For some reason, Canada isn't allowed the same standard. A Canadian company, with Canadian workers, mysteriously becomes all-American because the Swedish-born president of the company lived in the US at the time. LOL. Americans... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.53.129.181 (talk) 04:07, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The question you're replying to isn't about the company. It's about Sundback himself. Bearcat (talk) 21:48, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This article is frustrating. The patent in 1914 describes him as a subject of the Swedish king.  When did he become a US citizen? --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:52, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Patent no. 1746565, filed in 1926, no longer contains any declaration of citizenship. Rats. But in 1923 when he filed for 1557381, he said he was Swedish. --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:56, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Sundback didn't marry Whitcomb Judson's daughter
Gideon Sundback indeed married his boss' daughter, but another boss -- fellow Swede Peter Aronson. Aronson was also taking part in the numerous improvments of the zipper, although Sundback was the genius. Comment by Mats Karlsson, Stockholm, Sweden Journalist who has made extensive research on Sundback and Aronson for article published by historical magazine Popular Historia.

WRONG....According to the Swedish "Daedalus Tekniska Museets Arsbok" from 1940 and letters sent by Peter Aronson's son and Mr. Lennart Way-Matthjieson, Asst. Director - Teknicka Musect in Stockholm Sweden written in 1956,...it was PETER ARONSON's invention the Sundback stole and patented. Please check your facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.177.39.79 (talk) 21:13, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Spelling
None of the English-language sources I've seen spell Sundback with the double-dot over the A. The Swedish Wikipedia does, though (as an aside, their article on him is a little shorter than in en. ). Did he naturalize his spelling when he took out US citizenship? Do we record him under his birth spelling or the name he died with? This is obviously a crucial issue for the continued progress of the Wikipedia, even more than the John Logie Baird controversy, and must be resolved. --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:04, 25 February 2010 (UTC)


 * According to "The Evoloution of Useful Things", page 103, Sundback dropped the "European trappings" from his name when he immigrated; presumably this means the double-dot A? --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:12, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That's not necessarily the actual inventor's personal physical signature on a patent? Could be teh patent lawyer fills it in? (but the lawyer should know how the client spells his name) --Wtshymanski (talk) 17:04, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

I notice that the article on "zipper" does not retain the marks over the "a" in his name. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 12:49, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

The introduction: ... Sundback was an engineer (not a engineer). Thebetty (talk) 12:59, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Citizenship and death
This title sounds like his death had something to do with his citizenship. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MurkMenthaa (talk • contribs) 23:19, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, title should be rethought Doyley Talk  00:17, 24 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I've removed it for now, since it doesn't really fit with the section, but having everything under the Career heading doesn't quite fit with some of the content. The content will need to be re-arranged and titled according to the topic. - M0rphzone (talk) 04:51, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

1917 "zipper" patent
please ad a following if the article is blocked... 1917 Gideon Sundback patent(issued in 1917, filled for in 1914):

Edit request on 24 April 2012
Can I edit this page? Only a minor edit? No vandalism. I promise. Plz?

Kushan Lahiri (talk) 06:16, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Once your account is 4 days old and you have 10 edits you will be able to edit the article. -Nathan Johnson (talk) 16:02, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Use of zipper in men's clothing
Military uniform items might not count as the "fashion industry," but an early usage of zippers in clothing was in leather flight jackets and suits. The Type A-2 summer flight jacket and Type B-1 winter flight suit, adopted by the U.S. Army Air Corps in 1931, were the first such garments to use zipper closures. There were also occasional waist-length jackets for the 1930s civilian market, but the high price of zippers at the time made them uncommon. 50.81.119.136 (talk) 07:17, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Plagiarism
The whole text in the 'History of creating the zipper' section is plagiarised from the identified source. This needs to be removed or re-written. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.150.119.101 (talk) 09:33, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I saw that also. Thanks. Removed --Lyncs (talk) 10:00, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Plagiarism
I am removing the below as it appears plagiarized from at least this 2003 site:

Whitcomb L. Judson was a lover of gadgets and machines and the idea for his "clasp locker" came from when a friend had a stiff back from trying to fasten his shoes. Judson's clasp locker was used mostly on mailbags, tobacco pouches and shoes. However, his design, like most first inventions needed to be fine-tuned. A more practical version came on the scene in 1913 when a Swedish-born engineer, Gideon Sundback revised Judson's idea and made his with metal teeth instead of a hook and eye design. In 1917, Sundback patented his "separable fastener." The name changed again when the B. F. Goodrich Co. used it in rubber boots, galoshes, and called it the "zipper" because the boots could be fastened with one hand. The 1940s brought about research in Europe of the coil zipper design. The first design was of interlocking brass coils. However, since they could be permanently bent out of shape, making the zipper stop functioning, it was rather bad for business and wasn't too practical. The new design was improved after the discovery of stronger, more flexible synthetics. Coil zippers eventually hit the market in the early 1960s In 1934, Yoshida Kogyo Kabushililaisha was founded. Sixty years later they changed their name to YKK Co. The privately owned firm, headquartered in Japan, now is made up of 80 companies at 206 facilities in 52 countries. Wow! you say? but of course, the demand for zippers is great. YKK makes everything from the dyed fabric around the zipper to the brass used to make the actual device.

--Lyncs (talk) 09:58, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Google celebration not part of career
The sentence about Google's celebration of Gideon Sundbäck on the 24th april 2012 has no place in the "Career" section. This looks like parasitism to me. Can someone remove it or at least move it to a more appropriate section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.118.162.126 (talk) 12:09, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree. Many articles have a "cultural references" section or perhaps "product placement" or something like that in this case. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 12:43, 24 April 2012 (UTC)


 * The Google reference is really an irrelevance. It should be deleted.88.167.23.116 (talk) 14:22, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

his wife's last name
Did "Elvira Aronson, daughter of the Swedish born plant manager Peter Aronsson" change her last name? or is this a Swedish thing? or is it an error? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 12:46, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved -- JHunterJ (talk) 01:41, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Gideon Sundbäck → Gideon Sundback – Sources such as the patent signatures indicate he dropped the umlaut after emigrating. See further discussion above. This move was not discussed and the issue has been discussed before. Wtshymanski (talk) 13:56, 24 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Support, per Britannica, Inventors and their Inventions, and Scientific American Inventions and Discoveries. We should follow the spelling used by the best available sources. Trying to determine how he spelled his own name is WP:OR. Kauffner (talk) 18:17, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Support, as per reasons above as well as the fact that Sundback's U.S. patent # uses the spelling "Gideon Sundback".  Yoganate79 (talk) 18:27, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Support, not on the basis of Britannica, Britannica has proven to be unreliable re human names. I doubt the other sources can be relied on either as expert on Swedish-in-America names. Nor in fact can patent applications, it seems unlikely that umlauts were allowed on US govt forms in the 1910s. But support simply on the basis that he became an American in 1905 in an era when names were habitually anglicised on arrival on arrival. Becoming American then meant saying goodbye to the finer points of a European name. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:55, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * To follow up with Wtshymanski's request for a move, I did some investigating on my own today and came upon this newspaper article from the Meadville Tribune. It appears that Gideon Sundback's son, Eric, now in his 80s, says that their family name has never been written with an umlaut — especially in Sweden. So the matter should be resolved and the article should be moved ASAP.


 * See the article for more details. Yoganate79 (talk) 22:07, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree the article should be moved, since he became notable in America. But his son isn't a reliable source, that's probably just anecdotal "ah we never bothered son." The name verifiably is usually written with an umlaut and sv.wp has Calla Sundbäck, Krister Sundbäck, Bo Sundbäck, David Sundbäck, Axel Sundbäck (and 100s more on Google Scholar). Although sv.wp has one local politician Barbro Sundback from the Swedish-speaking Åland Islands between Finland and Sweden (belonging to Finland), who doesn't have one. Gideon Sundbäck was born in Småland, the heart of Sweden, and although from what I know of Scandinavian music orthography was a bit random in Scandinavia in the 19th Century it's somewhat unlikely that his cousins still there today are different from other Småland Sundbäcks. I'd say on the basis of WP:IRS we'd need to stick with the sources that say he was born Sundbäck in Jönköping. In fact I just checked the Swedish phonebook, there are Sundbäcks still in Jönköping today. What strikes me as odd is why we have a date of birth for his father, Jonas Otto Magnusson Sundbäck (född 1846), but no date of death? In ictu oculi (talk) 03:44, 28 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment -- He was clearly most notable in America. Unfortunately, the article is imprcise as to his nationality.  If he was naturalised as an American, article should be at the name by wihich he was naturalised.  The Swedish WP is not a useful source as they would naturally "correct" the speeling back to Swedish orthography, whether that was appropriate or not.  Peterkingiron (talk) 14:20, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

British patent
Many may not know this but Sundback also received British (GB) patent 12,261 in 1915 for a zipper. I would think if the U.S. patent is listed, then a British patent would warrant inclusion as well. Yoganate79 (talk) 14:16, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 24 April 2012
Please change reference #6 ( Lightning Fastener Company Limited (Brock University)) because this resource no longer exists. The correct link should be: Gideon Sundback fonds (Brock University) http://dr.library.brocku.ca/handle/10464/3010

Jyounker (talk) 14:35, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. -Nathan Johnson (talk) 16:02, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 24 April 2012
According to the german article his Sundback's first patent for the zipper was in 1909 in Germany (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?locale=en_EP&NR=216807&CC=DE)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.186.32.31  (talk • contribs)  22:01, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. --Tyrannus Mundi (talk) 19:22, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Corrections to Personal Life
I've never really used wikipedia before, so I don't know how to edit or even if I'm allowed to. But, I believe the wife listed "Elvira Aronson" is not correct. It says that he married her in 1909, but I've been researching Sundback on ancestry.com and according to the records, Sundback married a woman named Marguerite (not sure of the maiden name) who was born June 26, 1891, died April 7th, 1993 (lived to be 101!). Here's a link about her grave in Pennsylvania right next to Gideon's.

Also, another reason why this information about Elvira Aronson seemed strange to me is that the records I was able to find about her on ancestry.com said that she wasn't born until 1915. The 1910 census has her father Peter R Aronson (born 1890) unmarried, and in the 1920 census, little Elvira is just 5 years old. So she couldn't have married Gideon in 1909.

According to the 1930s census, Gideon and Marguerite were living together in Pennsylvania with four children, Ruth, Paul, Richard, and Eric. The census papers says he was a "Consulting Engineer" at "Fasterner Factory." I'm sure there's more to find the more I dig, or anyone else who has access to census databases.

I don't know anything about citing sources on wikipedia, like I said I'm new to this. Here's the website with Sundback's obituary from the cemetary's website. Clicking Marguerite's name will give her gravestone information as well.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=SU&GSfn=o&GSpartial=1&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSst=40&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GSsr=41&GRid=63510054&df=all&

Eefraoula (talk) 00:37, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 19 December 2012
Please move wikilink(s) for Greendale cemetery to Greendale Cemetery, since the target has been moved to the correct capitalization (low priority – there is currently a redirect).

—&#91;  Alan M 1  (talk) &#93;— 03:41, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Given that it's a proper name, WP:NOTBROKEN doesn't apply, so Yes check.svg Done. -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:31, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

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