Talk:Gielinor/Archive 1

Length
After reading over this article a few times, there is so much information that needs to be added, and much less that needs to be deleted. The file is already 31kb and expanding it would just make it way too long. However, I dont see how this article could be succesfully divided. Should i bother about this? Anybody have any ideas? Curran919 03:22, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Actually, I see the opposite. I think there's quite a lot that could, and should be, deleted.  Now, there may be more that could be added, but this thing is way too long already. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:09, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

Okay, well, ive been thinking about this (no, not for the last 2 months) and yes, it is too long, and I have a reasonably efficient way of trimming the fat while keeping vital information and making the article mroe comprehensible. My idea, which is rather straight forward and obvious... incorporating the regions, cities and landmarks, and dividing the article in to Asgarnia, Misthalin, Kandarin, Morytania, Kharidian Desert, Wilderness and Karamja (including other islands) and listing the cities and landmarks in sub categories. This way, the locations are more hierarchial and easier to place. Opinions... Ricky? lol Curran919 05:02, 12 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, I think it's a good idea. Vimescarrot 18:41, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Somebody ripped out "Cities" altogether http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=RuneScape_locations&diff=34932039&oldid=34588739 - put them back here, or put them in amother section? - Ace of Risk 18:14, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Kalphite Queen
The section on the Kharidian Desert says the Kalphite Queen is the third strongest monster in the game...? only one monster has a higher level (TzTok-Jad) and even then, it's opinion as to which one is toughest. After all, Jad doesn't use prayer and can be solo'd... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vimescarrot (talk • contribs)
 * Some people have successfully soloed the Kalphite Queen. TzTok-Jad has such a high level because of his attack, strength, mage, and ranged stats.  The second highest level monster is Ket-Zek, who you fight in the TzHaar caves before TzTok-Jad.  Ket-Zek is level 360. Dtm142 18:41, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

AfD results
This article was nominated for deletion; the result was no consensus to delete. For details, please see Articles for deletion/RuneScape skills. bd2412 T 20:10, 11 February 2006 (UTC) —Quarl (talk) 2006-11-19 21:28Z 

Newest edits
In the last edits by 203.134.111.194, said person removed the information saying Karamja used to be called Karamanja...why did they do that? I'm pretty sure there's a reason I'm missing. The information is genuine. I was the one who added that information in the first place. Vimescarrot 18:20, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll get to work on that right now. J.J.Sagnella 18:39, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Reverted edit by 216.150.109.150, which wrote about the world 111 massacre. Already here []. Also, my comment should read "does not relate". Nathan M 01:02, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Tutorial Island
It says that all non-member skills except crafting can get to level 3 here, but you can't level up prayer here, as there are no bones. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.26.106.2 (talk • contribs).

You can. Ginat rats drop bones. But you can't train slayer, farming...... 20:05, 31 March 2006 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by J.J.Sagnella (talk • contribs).

You can't lvl up runecrafting... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by XR-CatD (talk • contribs).

The giant rats on tutorial island don't drop bones. Also, the article says that you can train higher than level 3 but it will be changed to level 3 when you leave. This is not true: you can't get higher than level 3 on tutorial island. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.26.106.2 (talk • contribs).


 * Last time I checked, the rats do drop bones. Pyrospirit  Talk  Contribs 16:53, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I created a new account recently, and the giant rats on Tutorial Island do drop bones, and the bones give prayer xp just like normal. Don't add this info though, that would be fancruft. Pyrospirit  Talk  Contribs 15:48, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Does any of this even matter? The fact itself seems like Funcraft24.96.242.143 18:00, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

It's total fancruft. (Funcraft?) That's why I'm working on rewriting the whole thing. Pyrospirit Talk  Contribs 19:49, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Crash Island
I checked the official World Map and there is a place named Crash Island. It is next to Ape Atoll on the map but has no map icons whatsoever. If is it completely useless, why is is there?TestingTesting 23:14, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, aye. I see it. Its probably for a future quest; its pretty small, the name is a dead givaway; Gnome Glider crash site possibly? Jagex have been making a lot of gnome quests lately, maybe they are making their own version of Lost? :-) CaptainVindaloo t c e 01:42, 2 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It's for the Monkey Madness quest. Look it up somewhere to find out why.H e mh e m20X6 01:55, 2 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I haven't done that one, I'm only level 63. CaptainVindaloo t c e 02:00, 2 October 2006 (UTC)


 * At the beginning of the quest, when you first leave from the Grand Tree, the Pilot crash-lands the glider at Crash Island, hence the name. You then "see" Ape Atoll and take a boat to it.  Agentscott00(talk contribs) 03:15, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Ah.TestingTesting 01:02, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Major clean-up underway - information for interested contributors
Both Locations and Gods are in desperate need of clean-up. I'm starting here on Locations first but hope that contributors can discuss this and will consider applying similar actions to Gods.

By Wikipedia's own standards, all articles should pass the three legs of the stool (main policies WP:V, WP:NPOV and WP:OR), sourcing should be done in accordance with WP:RS. Sub-articles from videogame/anime/tv series etc. etc. have some leeway around WP:V, in terms of quoting secondary sources (IE reviews of RS, press articles covering RS etc.). This isn't something which is written into the guidelines and policies, this is just WP's nature - liquid contributions and concensus as opposed to the strict enforcement of 'the rules'.

However, articles which do not even link primary sources, attempt to speak with readers unfamiliar with the subject and attempt to to maintain a little self-control in regards to replicating fan-sites needlessly are always going to be in danger of getting extinguished in AFD, just like that.

Not only does the RS series have several regular contributors comitted to improving it, there is an army of Wikipedians who regularly go through the articles. Scores of Wikipedians. If, between us, we can't get the relevant information in the right amount of articles, then the WP is in trouble.

Here's my plan:


 * Merge all Dungeons and Landmarks that are worth merging into the appropriate Regions. We can list every region that we can get a knowledgebase cite for, what constitutes a 'Landmark' is extremely debatable, listing every dungeon doesn't tell our readers much except 'dungeons exist, combat happens' since most are caves with monsters in.
 * Remove all game-guide material, original research, non-neutral POV texts and anything of the like.
 * Cite every aspect of every region that can be sited from the knowledgebase.
 * Using the cites as reference, removing everything that is not mentioned within said knowledgebase articles. If it isn't in the knowledgebase articles, there's not a snowball's chance in hell that a secondary source that satisfies WP:RS contains the info. If the only way to verify it is by playing the game, then that marks the difference between material for the encyclopedia and material to be deleted.
 * List any secondary sources which mention locations, at all, if not in the article then here on the talk page - if you see something, grab it! Drag it back here and we can give it a clubbing.
 * Citing everything from the knowledgebase does not satisfy WP:V, but it shows willing and that we are trying. At least we can't be accused of 'original research' or partisanship.
 * Maintaining stasis - be nice to potential new wikipedians who drop by to edit, but don't let it stop you erasing unsuitable material on sight - it won't be nice for anyone if the entire thing goes up in a cloud of smoke because it looks like fancruft.

Blah blah blah, yeah sorry for the long wording, but at least you know what's ticking over my mind-box. My talk page is always open and the coffee machine's stuck on 'free'. QuagmireDog 21:21, 10 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Interested in trying to rewrite the whole thing? It could really use it, and if we combined the good information we have now, your plan, and my organization ideas, it might work even better than just trying to fix what we have now. Here's the link: User:Pyrospirit/RuneScape locations rewrite. Pyrospirit 02:22, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Mistakes
Just wanted to say that Al Kharid is not part of Misthalin. Its on the Miscellaneous Guides: Races of Runescape page on the RS official website. Theres been alot of debate over this on the Runescape Wikia, and people are citing the hardcore Wikipedia on this matter, so I just wanted to hop over and let you guy s know. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 146.145.221.130 (talk • contribs).


 * I included this information in the rewrite. Thanks. Pyrospirit  Talk  Contribs 15:50, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Kingdom of Misthalin is mostly fancruft
The section on the Kingdom of Misthalin needs some serious trimming down. Remember that this is designed for people who have never played the game; they don't need to know the rewards for the Stronghold of Security, just a passing reference would be enough in this case. I'll work on this later, but if someone else could do some trimming down as well, that would really help. Pyrospirit 16:57, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

afd
I have nominated this article for deletion because I believe it is fancruft. the afd page is here —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Exarion (talk • contribs).

shilo village
where is the shilo village info it is very important!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sonic feet (talk • contribs).
 * Shilo village information is located under the Karamja section. Mamyles 22:11, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Rewrite of page
Since there's so much fancruft and general disorganization in RuneScape locations, I'm working on a total rewrite at this page. Please note that I'm still in the very early stages of this plan; any help that anyone can give will be much appreciated. This is by no means actually going to replace this page, but if this version turns out to be better by consensus, I'll put it in when it's all done. Pyrospirit 00:13, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm still working on the rewrite, and I could still use some help. Not sure when it'll be done, but I've finished the Misthalin section and done work on other sections as well. I won't be editing this page much since (hopefully) it will be rewritten anyway. The page is right  HERE  . -- Pyrospirit  Talk  Contribs 06:26, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Looking good, I would suggest writing a small section on the Wilderness rather than leaving it as just a link? Something like:-

"The Wilderness is a barren area of the map in which players can fight each other freely. Considered a dangerous location it also contains many powerful monsters, particularly in the members world, as well as the Abyss - used in runecrafting."
 * Hope that helps. Philipwhiuk 17:47, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm planning a large section on the wilderness. It's just one of the ones I haven't written yet. Pyrospirit  Talk  Contribs 16:34, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Please keep in mind that there is an entire article on the wilderness - we do not need to reinvent the wheel here if that article is going to be kept. If that article is not going to be kept, there is much discussion as to whether the information belongs here or in the combat article. I am not offering an opinion at this time as to which of the three options I prefer, but it would probably be a good idea to get that issue resolved before spending a great deal of time writing something for here.

On another note, so much of this article as it stands right now is pure, total fancruft that it is unbelievable. So much more of it is "original composition". I don't even know where people came up with half that stuff - the industries of Argougne working with Seers Village - that is all manufactured and not substantiated anywhere. I am going to start working on it at some point, but I am still trying to stabilize the main article at this point. Xela Yrag 17:25, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm wondering.. can't we have the new, decent version of the article here? :S I mean if you still want to keep it safely tucked away on your userpage that's cool Pyro, just seems that everyone's had ample opportunity to voice any concerns with one replacing the other and that the existing article is a mess. QuagmireDog 02:17, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I considered this when I created the user page. However, I decided against it for several reasons:


 * The article structure and sections are different in the rewrite.
 * My version is not complete yet; some sections are blank or are barely even stubs.
 * Serious editors will be able to find my page, but people who would put in fancruft or vandalize probably won't. I want to at least finish writing something for each section before I have to deal with excessive fancruft and vandalism like the main article does.
 * I should have the article finished fairly soon though, and as soon as it's done, I'll move the current article to a subpage of my userpage and move the rewrite to the name RuneScape locations. Pyrospirit  Talk  Contribs 15:50, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Important: I am now moving the rewrite to the page. I have information in every section, but I still need references and images. I will tag it with a warning saying that it doesn't cite references, and I will remove it (or someone else will) as soon as there are some good refs. The new version was moved from User:Pyrospirit/RuneScape locations rewrite to RuneScape locations, and the old version was moved from RuneScape locations to User:Pyrospirit/RuneScape locations (old version). Pyrospirit Talk  Contribs 00:59, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow, you managed to do it about 10 minutes after I did the merge with the wilderness article. (Ironically, the merge actually removed over 2000 bytes, but whatever). -Amarkov blahedits 01:01, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Hm. I have to ask an admin to delete this page so I can move in the rewrite. Annoying. Pyrospirit  Talk  Contribs 01:07, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Rewrite and moves now complete. Finally, glad to get that done. We still need sources and images for this article though. Pyrospirit Talk  Contribs 01:44, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

You sir are a scholar and a gentleman. Thanks and congrats. QuagmireDog 12:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)