Talk:Gintama/Archive 1

Clearing up jargon
there are a few words in the Gintama articles that haven't been explained for people who haven't read the manga (ziyo, bakufu, etc.), could someone please clear this up?--Spyderchan 21:14, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Gintama vs. Gin Tama
Should be moved to match official U.S. title ("Gin Tama"). As that already exists as a redirect, I have no idea how to go about this short of blanking and pasting it in place of the redirect page. I have a feeling this is not standard procedure; could someone more knowledgable take care of this for me? -SA- 22:51, 23 December 2006 (UTC)-SA- If the "correct name" is Gintama, why does VIZ Media use "Gin Tama"? WhisperToMe 21:14, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The correct name is in fact Gintama. No spaces. DJLarZ 16:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The correct romanization is in fact GinTama (more commonly used as Gintama), with no space. Under Wikipedia Guidelines, the correct title for the article would be Gintama, though it should give a special mention to Viz's title Gin Tama.
 * Viz often doesn't go with the direct romanization of Japanese titles, usually changing the titles into something they would find more befitting for American audiences.
 * Although, the Wikipedia title for the Gintama article is up for bids ^_^. Meaning, majority wins: If the American title is what the people want, it's what they get (I'm not about to change something that'll get changed back >.<).  DarkAngel007 07:27, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, why do you say "Gintama" is correct? Also, if 銀魂 is silver soul (and therefore two separate words), why do "Gin" and "Tama" have to be "together?" WhisperToMe 15:03, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Because the title is a pun on the word kintama, or balls. Viz is probably worried that people will assume Gintama is the main character's name, which is why they've separated the two; the difference is largely cosmetic. Doceirias 20:52, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * IMO, I don't think that has any bearing on how it can be capitalized, as two words at once can still be a pun for one word, and vice versa. I.E. "Tess Tickles" (if that is the name of a character) could be a pun for "testicles," but that doesn't mean "Tess" and "Tickles" have to be together. WhisperToMe 02:19, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That's why I said it was cosmetic. Grammatically speaking, "silver souls" would be Gin-iro no tamashii, so this has made a new compound word. This is another reason why people have been spelling it as Gintama so far, but it doesn't mean Viz's choice of spelling is any less valid. Doceirias 02:24, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the correct romanization is Gintama. Only VIZ uses Gin Tama, I've never heard of the series referred to as such anywhere else, and many people don't even read VIZ's translations. In any case, VIZ only holds the license in US and Canada, but the usage of English wikipedia is not limited to these two countries, so I don't see why VIZ's romanization should be used as the official wikipedia romanization. Also, as Doceirias pointed out, 銀魂 is a pun on 金玉 (kintama), and if you would have it, the direct translation of 金玉 would be golden balls, which are technically two English words, but 金玉 is in fact a single noun in Japanese. As a case in point, 黒船 (black ships) is romanized as kurofune. And lastly, aside from the article title and the first mention, the entire article refers to the series as Gintama, so for the sake of consistency, I'm moving the article back to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gintama, unless anyone is up to the job of changing every single mention to "Gin Tama". --Lareine 19:39, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * While I agree with the move, I must point out that 金玉 being "a single noun" is a tad debatable. If it was truly a single noun, it would be "kindama". Not sure if you understand how dakuten work, but it all ties in with that. --SeizureDog 21:48, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * But if publication increases under the Gin Tama name, I.E. if the UK and Singapore get the title under that name, or if the anime is commercially released, then the move MUST happen. WhisperToMe 11:46, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if the dakuten would apply here. To my knowledge there is no rule necessitating the use of a dakuten after ん in a single noun. Examples are: 勤怠 (kintai; diligence) and 深潭 (shintan; abyss), both of which are single nouns (although the concept of single nouns is itself ambiguous). As for 金玉, it has two pronunciations, kintama (testicles) and kingyoku (gold and jewels/precious object) - would kingyoku be considered a 'single noun' or a 'double noun'? I believe the definition, if there is one, would concern the meaning more than the pronunciation. My original interpretation was that even if a noun can be translated to an adjective and a noun in English (銀魂, silver soul), it can still be a 'single noun' in Japanese. --Lareine 16:38, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You threw me off there for a minute, but I was able to find an example to the contrary: 善玉 (ぜんだま).--SeizureDog 19:33, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Of course, examples to the contrary do not in any way disprove anything Lareine said. Doceirias 21:36, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm just saying the dakuten makes the whole thing a word. Gin and tama are fully capable of standing on their own; a dama however, is not, as it is only found as part of a word. This is not to say that Gintama isn't one word, it's just saying that it's not worded in a way that it couldn't be anything but one word, so the claim is debatable. Of course, it's not like I'm an expert on where to seperate words when writing Japanese as romaji, but whatever.--SeizureDog 21:47, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I see your point regarding how the dakuten it makes the whole thing a word. Either way, the entire concept's fairly ambiguous, so if another debate regarding the title arises in the future, I suppose the justifications will have to be based on other reasons. --Lareine 16:33, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I hadn't been seeing this sentence; "...but as n in Wikipedia’s modified Hepburn." I undid it(Shimpachi -> Shinpachi). I am sorry! :~) 59.7.77.149 17:12, 19 August 2007 (UTC) Gintama case closed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.28.238.230 (talk) 03:58, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Revisit
I think it should be "Gin Tama" because most of manga readers are in the United States, and the UK, so I think it should be written as Gin Tama. Let's ask google! 1,870,000 for... WOW GOOGLE I HATE YOU!!! Let's pretend this never happened.Moocowsrule (talk) 06:50, 22 September 2008 (UTC)moocowsrule

Per the Manual of style and Wikipedia naming conventions, this article should be Gin Tama per the official English release, and all terms should use the official English names. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 13:05, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

WP:UE dictates you use Gin Tama. No exceptions.  Sui get  su  18:19, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Why are we even argueing about this. It should be Gin Tama per Manual of Style. IT'S THE RULES. Also, did someone actually try to move the page and someone reverted it? Ō_o –  J U M P G U R U  @ Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 22:11, 23 September 2008 (UTC)


 * No, but Suigetsu attempted a very inappropriate copy/paste move that has now been reverted (as was your copy/paste of the talk page) Grrr.... If consensus is to move the article to Gin Tama, it will be properly MOVED. Copy/pasting like that violates Wikipedia's several guidelines and policies as it wipes out the article history and specific editor details from the history. There does seem to now be consensus based on current guidelines and policies, so I have properly requested an admin perform the page move. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 00:21, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * My apologies for that. Regular move wasn't working, but as much of an idiot as I am, I wasn't able to grasp that this was because the page I was moving it to is already a redirect. /facepalm  Sui get  su  01:58, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I am so sorry. >_~ I tried to move it too, and the same happened to me.... –  J U M P G U R U   ■TALK■ 22:03, 25 September 2008 (UTC) How bout my new signature! ; )

The rename has been done, along with the rename of the three separate lists. Now...if only we can get all four fixed up. These are in pretty bad shape....-- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 13:24, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeesh. These are bad.  Sui get  su  01:39, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

This seems like a good situation to consider WP:IAR. --Alexc3 (talk) 04:28, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Uh no it doesn't. WP:IAR is supposed to be humorous. (I think.) moo  cows  rule 02:51, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * (I know this is a response to a REALLY old post, but whatever) Rendaku wouldn't apply here, because consonants such as "t" aren't usually Rendaku'd, so if Viz hadn't published it as "Gin Tama" it would be "Gintama" not "Gindama". moo  cows  rule 02:53, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

old discussion, but as the naming policies state, "Use the most commonly used English version of the name of the subject as the title of the article". So why exactly was an uncommon romanization chosen that is only used by one american publisher? a simple google search "gin tama" vs "gintama" shows ~45k to ~2650k hits, so it's clear what the general public uses... and before you consider the "official english release" as source for everything, consider the fact that the scanlations have an audience far larger than viz medias version 87.184.183.108 (talk) 12:24, 8 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Do you have a proof? Scanlations sites have lots of copyright infringements, while Viz is licensed to publish the manga. A google search does not prove it since most sites have those issues.Tintor2 (talk) 12:39, 8 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know exactly what kind of proof you want, the google hits kind of speak for themselves (what are these "issues" you mentioned?)... also, anime communities such as 4chans /a/ use "gintama" and not "gin tama", as do the scanlation pages (yeah that could be considered copyright infringement, but we're talking about common usage here, not about copyright). 87.184.172.158 (talk) 13:54, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * 4chans? It seems to be a site composed of fans. The fansites also tend to have copyrights infringments due to how they use material from series. Copyrighted names is the first thing to keep in mind for series. Common names is to keep in mind if there are various licensors in English. Just see the discussion of O-Parts Hunter regarding the name change fromm 666 Satan to the current one.Tintor2 (talk) 14:52, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Firstly, if an official english name exists, we use it (per the previous discussions). Wikipedia is not a fansite, we use official english titles.No amount of google hits for anything else or suggestion that 4chan is any indicator of anything (it isn't) will change this. The series could be called "guy picks his nose, kicks ass and makes jokes" and it would still be the page title over any alternative (the same as why we use English version names and not versions from scans). I also object to the useage of the term "general public". The "general public" are more likely to pick up Viz's release from the shelf of a book/comic store then illegal fansubs, so that argument doesn't hold water, and your claim the scanlations have a larger audience is pure OR and assumption (more of a guess I suspect). It's just a space, the actual title is the same. Someone looking for "Gintama" on wikipedia will be redirected to "Gin Tama", so it's not going to change anything. I also strongly suspect Viz will be the company that picks up the disc release of the anime, so expect to see it used by them more. I'd also point out that Viz are owned by Shueisha (who publish the series in Japan), and any title would probably have to be approved by them. Dandy Sephy (talk) 15:46, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The anime is being published as Gintama, the film is on netflix as Gintama, it's on Crunchy roll as Gintama, search engines prefer Gintama, in the manga "Gin Tama", the manga is referenced as Gintama, Gintama is the commonly used name. Do a search for Gin Tama in any search engine and the main results for Gin Tama are from wikipedia. About the only people who refer to Gintama as Gin Tama are wikipedia and Viz Media.Zelphi (talk) 10:03, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Still, the English manga name is the most important. Moreover, sites like Anime News Network or reviewers call the manga Gin Tama. I think Dandy Sephy already explained better.Tintor2 (talk) 13:18, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Why is the English manga name most important? Anime News Network call the series Gintama, the only time Gintama is refered to as Gin Tama is in relation to the English Manga published by Viz Media. They publish the series as Gin Tama, the series isn't called Gin Tama, Gin Tama even refers to Gintama as Gintama. If you try to search for Gin Tama on Anime News Network, you get a suggestion for Gintama. The show is called Gintama. Popular names are meant to be established by search results, Gintama wins on that count clearly. The page should be called Gintama because it's about Gintama, not specifically the English published manga. Zelphi (talk) 15:52, 9 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Really? The manga is clearly called Gin Tama in ANN. All reliable reviewers also call the manga Gin Tama. And like Dandy Sephy already stated, we have to use the manga's English name per the project's guidelines of using English titles like O-Parts Hunter or Pokemon Adventures.Tintor2 (talk) 16:01, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * What the hell is a "reliable reviewer"?
 * "Gintama" without the space is the WP:COMMONNAME and other licensed official sources use gintama such as:
 * Netflix
 * Crunchyroll:
 * Hulu
 * And the overwhelming majority of people online use "gintama" as well as many reviewers
 * Gintama is the WP:COMMONNAME AND the WP:UE. DarmaniLink (talk) 18:15, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I didn't check the date first, my bad. I usually edit recent stuff.
 * Trout me.
 * Anyway, I'm going to open this back up for discussion. DarmaniLink (talk) 18:17, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

japanese reference
How does Gin imitate bobobo at the end of episode 17 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.200.7.70 (talk) 19:16, 9 April 2007 (UTC).
 * Should we even have that section? It's basically a trivia corner, and would be better served with a link to a fan page that lists those references. Doceirias 21:17, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Removed the trivia section. A section describing that part of the show's style (not in bullet points) might be justified, but Wikipedia discourages trivia sections and it was getting larger than the rest of the article. Given that cultural references are a small part of the show's humor, it seemed disproportionate. Doceirias 05:16, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Natural Perm
What is "naturally permed" hair? Why isn't it just curly hair? I'm assuming there's a difference. Can someone explain please? Thanks.--Diggnity 05:27, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * New comments at the end, please. There isn't a difference; natural perm is just a literal translation. But if I remember correctly, the official translation does not translate it that way. Doceirias 05:35, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

VIZ switched to Western order
Those in the USA should read the latest books - the names are now presented in western order, i.e. "Gintoki Sakata" WhisperToMe (talk) 21:40, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Manual of style suggest the names should always have been in Western order regardless of what the translation used. Doceirias (talk) 22:59, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, because Gintama took place in a time inspired by the Meiji era I used FN-GN - But now that VIZ has switched we may as well switch the orders of those names. I do not know why VIZ switched, but it did. WhisperToMe (talk) 02:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Does it really matter what Viz does? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jopojelly (talk • contribs) 00:05, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 04:36, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Not according to the guidelines, which have us contradicting the order used in official translations. Disagree with that all you like, but this is not the place to argue it. Doceirias (talk) 04:55, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You mean like WP:UE? That sort of guideline? 207.80.142.5 (talk) 13:20, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Tama
Dosen't Tama mean egg? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.62.226.101 (talk) 16:08, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * No, it doesn't (although o-tama お玉 or -tama in some compounds can mean egg). Tama alone can mean several things, including ball or bullet, but the meaning here is made clear by the kanji 魂 tama or tamashii which does mean "soul". Bikasuishin (talk) 16:21, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It also means "Kon", literally "Spirit". –  J U M P G U R U  @ Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 16:35, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Concerning number of episodes
It seems like 74.94.190.173 IS updating the number of episodes every week. So there is no reason for you guys to keep undoing his changes and wait for a "final" episode number, since Gintama's fellow Jump series' have a "current" episode number than a "final" number. But then again 74.94.190.173 is on probation for his attacks on other articles. So I will set the number of Gintama episodes to the last change and wait to see if 74.94.190.173's contibution will be constructive in the future. Also dont undo the change or delete the line without discussing on the talk page. Was†ed(Ag@in) ‡ † © 14:23, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, the updates to the episode numbers sometimes skip 2 weeks; though sometimes, there are a few consecutive edits every week. Other series keep the section because those are articles which are constantly edited by various editors, like Naruto.
 * If the episode# section is consecutively updated, then I guess it's alright to leave it, but if it once again goes through any 2-3 week interval without an episode update, then I'll remove it again; otherwise, leaving it as is (or would be) would provide false information. And, by the way, there are several articles that leave the episode# sect empty until a final number is known, even when various editors edit it; it prevents any unnecessary need for a section to be constantly updated. DarkAngel █▀▀007▄▄█  03:16, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It's not actually false information; just outdated information. Even if it's a few weeks out of date, it's still only a few numbers off from current information. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 22:48, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Parodies inside Gintama
could there be a section mentioning these? (ex: that episode which ended just like evangelion's 26th episode or when they just reproduced Dragonball Z's first opening)

thank you, 93.34.50.11 (talk) 12:57, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That would be a trivia section which are heavily discouraged, and would also need reliable third party sources (not fansites). Not using proper sources would be Original Research and removed anyway. Really I don't think it's appropriate information at all. On a fansite sure, but wikipedia is not a fansite and its hardly encyclopedic information. Dandy Sephy (talk) 04:06, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * well, shouldn't we at least mention a few of them? i mean even the name gintama contains a parody (kin(golden)tama = testicles) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.220.35.14 (talk) 16:54, 16 April 2010 (UTC)


 * With no reliable source, we can't as it is original research.Tintor2 (talk) 17:20, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Reference
Hi all. I was reading the article and I felt very good by the way :) However, the sentence: "In 2003, Hideaki Sorachi was an up-and-coming mangaka who had already created two one-shots for the Weekly Shōnen Jump magazine." Doesn't have a reference, could be added? I have no how. Thank you in advance. Best regards. Nixón〃 14:32, 30 November 2009 (UTC) PS: Sorry, but my English is not very good


 * Added.Tintor2 (talk) 14:39, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you :) Nixón〃 15:11, 30 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Another thing, the same reference could also be used with original Japanese version? Thanks, Nixón〃 16:15, 30 November 2009 (UTC) PS: I do not mean a change, just know if you can


 * Yes, but it is better to use sources easier to access for readers of this wiki.Tintor2 (talk) 19:28, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Reviews

 * DVD Collection part 1 ANN
 * DVD part 2 Mania


 * Yep. I saw that review, but with only one we can't make a good reception paragraph regarding the anime.Tintor2 (talk) 19:04, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Mania.com will catch up eventually ;) did catch up somehow --KrebMarkt 12:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)


 * PCS vol. 8PCS archive link vol. 8
 * PCS vol. 13PCS archive link vol. 13
 * PCS vol. 16PCS archive link vol. 16
 * ANN Shelf Life Ep 14-26
 * DVD part 3 Mania.com DVD part 4 Mania.com

よりぬき銀魂さん
What is "Yori Nuki Gintama san" and why is it not discussed at all on this article?— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 01:56, 12 June 2010 (UTC)


 * You could tell me what is it cos I have no idea. Remember that anything that is added to the article needs a wp:reliable source per wp:verifiability.Tintor2 (talk) 17:02, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Dropped by Viz Media
Viz Media stops publishing Gintama with the 23rd volume in august. source: animenewsnetwork

"North American anime and manga distributor Viz Media has confirmed with ANN that volume 23 of Gintama is the last one that the company intends to publish.

Amazon, Anime Castle, Barnes & Noble, Borders, Buy.com, and other retailers list the 23rd volume of Hideaki Sorachi's manga Gintama as the series' "final volume" in North America from Viz Media, even though the manga's Japanese publisher, Shueisha, just released the 39th volume on April 4 in Japan. The 23rd volume will ship in North America on August 2.

The company's Twitter account acknowledged the matter publicly but did not provide further information.

Viz launched the Gintama manga in the United States in 2007. The media distribution site Crunchyroll began streaming the television anime adaptation in 2009, and is currently simulcasting the anime's return to television, which began in Japan on April 4. Sentai Filmworks and Section23 Films are releasing the anime on DVD. " —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.247.164.232 (talk) 12:11, 16 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Last time I checked, there was no confirmation about that.Tintor2 (talk) 15:01, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Ummm.hai im Rioluex2 and ima riolu(tell me if you know what/who that is) .... but thats not really importnt here so who made this article could the creator be the one to respond Thanks--Rioluex2 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rioluex2 (talk • contribs) 21:27, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page
Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting. If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request it's removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true. Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:


 * http://sgcafe.com/2013/03/2013-gintama-movie-details-revealed/
 * Triggered by  on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.— cyberbot II NotifyOnline 18:31, 8 December 2013 (UTC)