Talk:Girl with Balloon

Nonsensical phrasing
"A framed copy of the work spontaneously shredded during an auction" uses Sotheby's "spontaneous" phrasing, but it was anything but spontaneous; a shredding device was built into the frame and deliberately activated during the auction proceedings. Can this be rephrased more correctly? Kaleja (talk) 20:01, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 6 October 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Move: no clear opposition, and auction listing seems as authoritative as we are ever likely to get given uncommunicative personality of artist (non-admin closure) Kevin McE (talk) 13:22, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

Balloon Girl → Girl with Balloon – WP:COMMONNAME 81.141.58.143 (talk) 16:05, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). --  Alex TW 16:44, 6 October 2018 (UTC) --Relisting.  &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 12:37, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

A quick web search suggests this is a good idea. "Girl with Balloon" seems to be the more commonly used name for the work, and the Wikipedia article's title seems to be an outlier. Let's move it and add a redirect. Fcrary (talk) 22:04, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
 * That is not how an RM works, it requires a consensus and closing before moving. This RM was filed due to the opposition by and  at the listed permalink. --  Alex TW 02:30, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
 * My phrasing may not have been precise enough, I think it's pretty clear. I said I was in favor and gave my reason. Isn't that how we reach a consensus? Fcrary (talk) 20:07, 7 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment Google Trends appears to show to that Balloon Girl is more popular, although it may not include the latest data at the time of searching (there should be a spike due to the news coverage). Google search however yielded different result - "Girl with Balloon" Banksy (over 3 million), "Balloon Girl" Banksy (357,000]. Hzh (talk) 08:26, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Has Banksy he-she-theyselves provided a name? Randy Kryn (talk) 20:15, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Support It was auctioned at Sotheby's (London) as 'Girl with Balloon' - they do research to determine canonical name, it's a matter of getting it right for best price at auction. Very reliable source for artwork name IMO. Google Trends is sketchy might include many unreliable sources. -- Green  C  02:15, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not convinced, the artist is a better source for the name. I can't find a direct quote online, but I'm sure it's in Banksy's book Wall and Piece.  And Balloon Debate suggests the more informal name for the original work.  There are reasons auction houses prefer more formal-sounding names, but that doesn't mean we have to go that way too.--Pharos (talk) 18:37, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * A bootleg copy of the book is on Internet Archive and I flipped through it and found the image on page 65 (a man sipping tea in the foreground). There is no mention of a title, the word "balloon" does not appear in the book. Maybe your memory is off about the artist giving it a name? Neither name really sounds 'formal', just two ways to say the same thing. -- Green  C  21:03, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and you're right, the name isn't in there. I did't mean to say that it was, but that since it was depicted there it might be.  This book might be more definitive, but I don't know about the content inside.--Pharos (talk) 22:27, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * This is why I think Sotheby's is authoritative. After the auction/shredding Sotheby's said: "The new work has been granted a certificate by Pest Control, Banksy's authentication body, and has been given a new title, 'Love is in the Bin,'. With that much money involved, buyers and sellers want official authentication that a work is genuine so that is why Pest Control issues a Certificate of Authenticity (COA) with the title of the work. Pest Control is Banksy. Presumably there is a COA with the name it originally sold under. See "This work is accompanied by a certificate of authenticity issued by Pest Control Office". The COA is the "authentic" name, according to Banksy's own organization. There might be a contradiction with the (rare) book, but I don't think that book should take priority over the COA, the later has a stronger case for being the official name.   --  Green  C  00:07, 16 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Image is not showing the original one
The image shown on the article is not the original one. The original one is under a stair. It should be indicated somehow in the infobox. I don't want to do it myself as I'm not a native speaker. KR, Jona (talk) 22:52, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Excellent point, I've replaced it with what appears to be the original.--Pharos (talk) 17:24, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Yeah, I'm not sure this article does the best job at describing the different variations. I added the previously-used infobox image back to the article, lower down. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 17:31, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
 * The 2002 version in South Bank appears to be the original and is in the infobox now, the 2004 version that was in Shoreditch and was sold and removed is not pictured in the article. I can't figure out where and when the other image in the article is from.--Pharos (talk) 18:17, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Source on the other one we have pictured, as well as other versions. Apparently all of the Banksy works on this theme in London are now gone.--Pharos (talk) 18:40, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Image of "Love Is in the Bin"?
This article already has an illustration. Can an image of Love Is in the Bin also be added under fair use? --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 01:43, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

It seems like Sothesby is saying it's a new piece of original art with a new name. No longer a copy of Balloon Girl. Would it make sense to split it off with creation date 2018. -- Green  C  01:53, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Looks like Banksy has said it's a new piece of art with a unique history of creating itself. Yes, the new artwork Love Is in the Bin should be new stand-alone page. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:01, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Any idea how it is being classified, painting, sculpture, performance art? Has echos of 1960s auto-destructive art, but also debates over AI generated art (machine generated) is art or what. Just not sure what Categories it would have and what the first sentence would say. -- Green  C  15:14, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I've started Love Is in the Bin and used art intervention in the first sentence. I also borrowed your idea of auto-destructive art as a see also.--Pharos (talk) 17:05, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Letting go or reaching out for balloon
The intro currently says "letting go", but I think "reaching out" is just as likely. If there isn't a direct source from the artist, maybe we should do something like "with a hand extended toward"?--Pharos (talk) 20:07, 15 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Changed it to "carried away by the wind" because it works regardless if she is reaching out or letting go. BTW this non-reliable source demonstrates both theories (letting go or reaching out) are in currency. -- Green  C  20:23, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Have removed 'away', editorializing and no indication of direction. (hee hee) Randy Kryn (talk) 22:14, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually, her skirt and hair are being blown in the wind to the left (using the infobox image) and so is the balloon, trailing the string behind. "Away" may be an unnecessary word, but pretty sure it's correct.--Pharos (talk) 22:19, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I sit corrected. Wondering if the "20" on the balloon in the image is a part of the original or vandalism? And interesting that the original is facing "left" while others, such as the new Love is in the Bin, face "right". Randy Kryn (talk) 22:56, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * The "20" is almost certainly vandalism. The motto "There is Always Hope" is also probably unrelated (not sure whether it came before or after Banksy), although some non-reliable sources actually suggest that is the name of the work.  I noticed the facing left / facing right difference too - I guess that's the advantage of a stencil you can literally turn around.  For what it's worth the West Bank version, which uses a totally different design, is also facing left.--Pharos (talk) 23:20, 15 October 2018 (UTC)