Talk:Girls' Generation/Archive 3

Record Label
Girls' Generation real Facebook Page http://www.facebook.com/pages/Girls-Generation-so-nyuh-shi-dae/186235404793520 Why do you always remove Avex Group Taiwan on the infobox? RafaelPPascual (talk) 10:17, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Since Girls' Generation's Debut in Japan, all CDs and DVDs are published by Universal Music in Taiwan. here --Christian140 (talk) 22:01, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Image Replacement Concern
To those people who are going to replace SNSD's image with any promotional or fansite images, according to Wikipedia Policy about the fair use criteria, the use of such fair use image should be used if there is no free equivalent images available. However, there is at least one free images (as shown on the right) that can be used. Although promotional and fansite images could provide better quality, the quality of this free image is acceptable. The reason "Beautiful" and "Newer (if not taken and published under free license)" is not a criteria for usage of fair-use materials. Thank you. --G(x) (talk) 15:30, 3 February 2011 (UTC)


 * What if the peron(s) who own the copyright on said fan or official sites allow the use of the image(s)? What then…? SilvestertheCat (talk) 13:04, 10 February 2011 (UTC)


 * If so, image should be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons, however as a precautionary, the copyright holder should also send their Declaration of consent to permissions-commons@undefinedwikimedia.org to state that copyright holder has allowed the image to be used under free license. Most of the newer image replaced in this article were sourced as Facebook, or some sites that retain full copyright over the content and the author has not clarify the use under free license of such content. If you find any other image that was released under free license, feel free to replace the current image with the new one every time. Thank you. --G(x) (talk) 15:49, 10 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, okay thanks…now the hard part, actually being given permission to use an image. ;) SilvestertheCat (talk) 06:01, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Common information removed as unsourced?
I undid a revision 415204389. The information was said to be removed because of "unsourced claims", however I don't think that really applies to this type of information (A table consisting of the members Names and Date of birth). I may be wrong on this, but the point of making sure claims about living people are sourced is to insure non-defaming/un-true content is not present. However the information removed seems to be so called "common information", or at least i don't see things like the name of a person being sourced in other articles. If anything maybe I could see the DOB needing to be removed if unsourced.

Just wanted to state my reason on un-doing that revision and start some sort of discusion on the matter. Grayfm (talk) 04:42, 22 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree with your action. There are many sources that can be found for the information regarding the group members. SilvestertheCat (talk) 05:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)


 * -- Yeah, I agree with Mr. Grayfm, too. The data like names and birthdays of living persons are the most basic part, but it is also difficult to find a reliable or verifiable source indicating those information of an entertainer from news reports. It would be more impossible for us to find a usable reference when their official website doesn't mention the information we need.


 * As I know, there are Korean fans celebrate for each members' birthdays on internet every year. The members would also response the fans and say their birthday wishes out. Those interactions were all recorded by fansites, but of course, they cannot be taken as reliable sources to prove their birthdays only because they are from forums. Still, I think it might be too over to delete the information on wiki page only by accusing them as "unsourced claims". If we put this restrictive standard on every wiki page of entertainers, there will be not much stuff we can put in then. from TW-mmm333k (talk to him) 06:09, 22 February 2011 (UTC) --
 * WP:BLP is very clear - personal information needs to be properly sourced. The birthdates of the singers is almost always entirely irrelevant to an article about a band - if it is somehow relevant it will be covered by a reliable source. Wikipedia is not a fansite. Active  Banana    (bananaphone  16:02, 22 February 2011 (UTC)


 * -- Well, maybe you're right though, I insist the names should be kept. In my latest edition, I recovered the member table, but I set the birth dates as hidden so that people can put the information back on to the page until reliable sources are added. from TW-mmm333k (talk to him) 02:35, 23 February 2011 (UTC) --
 * Normally I would say that with the members listed in the lead, there is no reason for a standalone "members" section, but with the information about birth names and stage names and english and korean versions that does end up being the most effective/least cluttered way of communicating the information. Active Banana    (bananaphone  18:42, 23 February 2011 (UTC)


 * -- Uh, I don't feel the table cluttered. You really should take a look at what it was like before I tabularized the data. from TW-mmm333k (talk to him) 03:22, 24 February 2011 (UTC) --
 * Yes, I agree that a table seems to be appropriate in this case. Active Banana    (bananaphone  19:35, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

I actually think the member profile is irrelevant. I mean these are personal information that doesn't really matter on a band. An they have it on their personal pages. I think listing the members should be enough. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.127.223.72 (talk) 06:57, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

They are not the first Korean girl group to place No. 1 on the Oricon chart
I have to disagree with this source that someone found online: http://10.asiae.co.kr/Articles/new_view.htm?sec=ent4&a_id=2011062414322963508

That's not correct. Its actually KARA but they did sell more than them. I think that the source is exaggerating things and it seams like its a bit misleading. 124.197.37.190 (talk) 04:52, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * They just wanna say, SNSD is the first Korean girl group to place No. 1 on the Oricon Album chart. --Christian140 (talk) 05:41, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, but that's not truth. We need to keep this article as accurate and neutral as possible. 124.197.37.190 (talk) 02:41, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * So, do you have a BETTER RELIABLE source in your mind tha could prove the already source wrong? Farjad 0322 (talk&#124;sign&#124;contribs) 09:58, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Members' Position
There has been several disputes regarding the Members' position. Many times, such information was removed as unsourced, but certain people tried to add it back with no references to support this information. I hereby tagged the member section as disputed, until the Members section was restored to the previous table with Date of birth, Real name and stage name, or references on the members' position have been located and cited properly in the article. Note that I am not a fanclub to Girls' Generation in any way; I just saw the edits on this section a matter to raise for comments. Thanks --G(x) (talk) 04:00, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I just removed it. Normally, I remove it immediately as it violates both WP:OR and WP:RS/WP:V.  The only thing that is proven is that Taeyeon is the leader.  Beyond that, they all sing and dance, so positions are trivial at best. SKS (talk) 04:37, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Konglish in this article
CF is not a real English word, it's a Konglish word (Korean made English). Yet in this article there are two instances of CF. I think it should be cleaned up. Bluesoju (talk) 13:17, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

The Boys "English vs. United States" discography
There will be an English version of SNSD's upcoming 2011 album 'The Boys', and so a new section called 'English Discography' has been made, which somebody previously named 'United States Discography'. That isn't the proper way to group it, as there are many more English speaking countries where the album is being released, such as the UK. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.171.37.86 (talk) 16:13, 9 October 2011 (UTC)


 * First; it's not the entire album being released in English, it's possibly only the title song "The Boys" and second we've heard no information about whether it will be released outside of the United States of America so it could be just a US release. Sanguis Sanies (talk) 01:40, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Actually, we had at that point, and it's obviously true now anyway. Even if it wasn't being released outside the US, having it as 'Korean, Japanese and US' would make no sense, it'd obviously be English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.171.37.86 (talk) 02:02, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Members section
There's always going to be argument over who has which role now that SNSD have included rapping, so should all members who do rap not just have 'rapper' instead of the whole sub, lead, main etc, because there is no 'main' rapper in SNSD, just 5 frequent ones. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.171.37.86 (talk) 02:04, 24 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm inlcined to simply delete the whole section; The only confirmed "position" is Kim Taeyeon as Leader, everything else is POV. Sanguis Sanies (talk) 03:59, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. As to the "rapper" thing, the only reason Tiffany is listed as "lead" is because her nickname among fans is "Rapper Hwang". Yoona should not be given "main" rapper status either, as she has the same amount of "rap" lines as Sooyoung, Yuri and Hyoyeon. P.S. What's happened to this page? The layout is borked.

I would say it's a good idea and if it's kept as it is now then there shouldn't be a problem. Although unconfirmed it is clear of the members official roles (Hyo - Main Dancer, Jess - Main Vocal etc) and that's just common knowledge. Plus it's good to have each of the members name and age there too for new fans to get to know them properly if they so choose. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.171.37.86 (talk) 01:34, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

But the rapper thing isn't confirmed, and is just fan speculation.


 * I think we should just remove the section wholly, just like before. That way the member position problem is also solved. Penpaperpencil (Talk) 09:04, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Hardly speculation if we've heard them rap? Plus this isn't the first time, Hyo and Sunny had their rap verses in Run Devil Run and there's more rapping in 'The Boys' album showing they'll include it more in the future, so if roles are to be included so should that!77.102.9.237 (talk) 02:31, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Can we get a consensus to delete this and not re-add it? The fact is that people will never agree to it, the large majority of edits have been just changing positions back and forth. There isn't any "official" positions other than who they've stated as the leader - Taeyeon. It's not like SM goes and says, "oh you're the 3rd vocalist, so you only get to do this line" - All the girls sing and dance, some of them may rap or not. Each of the girls has their own strengths. Doesn't mean it's an official position like a drummer in a band. And while Seohyun is the maknae, that's not really a position - it's a statement of fact. She is the youngest thus the maknae. If people want to know, they can easily look up her birthday. Evaders99 (talk) 03:10, 17 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Agreed with both the above comments. I mean what is "maknae"? It's a word which means youngest member, it's not a position of a member of a group. People should really just leave the member's section untouched. Penpaperpencil (Talk) 17:32, 27 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Again, someone has put 'positions' in the members section. Is this going to be removed again? It's not factual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.166.5.158 (talk) 01:14, 31 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Ditto - here's the edit: - please remove 'positions' or supply a reference. 92.40.225.117 (talk) 02:05, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Being a band's maknae is a big deal in Korea. There is even a show about them called Idol Maknae Rebellion. But the other positions sound fake, don't they? Everyone is supposedly a "lead vocalist," or a "main vocalist". What's the difference? If one member raps more than the others, that doesn't necessarily justify a title of "main rapper." Hey girls, you are all special to me, with or without silly titles. Kauffner (talk) 03:51, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * To Kauffner first I'd like to say, being a magnae is a matter of age and it's not a position. Yes, it is a big deal to the point where people love you for being the youngest, but it's like being Nichkhun and being adorable and being the thai prince, is his position "foreign beauty attraction"? Nope. Second, just as there are magnae shows, there are specials where you get only main vocalists, like on radio shows and even on "Immortal Song 2". Like how you get main dancers to always come and compete against each other.

Chocolat ≈ Dubulge (Chat Me Up) 10:34, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The distinction that you are making eludes me. If the media and public treat maknae as a position, then it is. If someone from Girls Generation appears on TV shows as the band's main vocalist, that could be a legitimate position as well. I'm just not clear on what a main vocalist is. When I think of positions in a band, I think of a rock band with a lead singer, drummer, guitarist, and keyboardist. Kauffner (talk) 14:47, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, then you better get some information about groups without being a band, because they need a lead vocalist, a main vocalist, like Destiny's Child, PCD or TLC, they have vocalists like Michelle, rappers like Left Eye and main vocalists like Nicole Scherzinger. Though Jessica and Taeyeon are main vocalists, on one time on Shim Shim Tapa, Jessica attended as SNSD's main vocalists, Ryeowook for Super Junior and Jonghyun for SHINee, but that's because SNSD and Suju have too many members, so they didn't consider Taeyeon, Yesung and Kyuhyun. Also once on Star Golden Bell, Jessica apologized to Taeyeon and she said something like "Though we both are SNSD's main vocals, during choruses where we are supposed to sing, I let her sing by herself and I just move my lips." Therefore it's not an imaginary position given to them by fans, it's just not something put in official websites, though on Naver, some groups have that, like M.I.B. Lastly, I kind of see where I contradicted myself, so I'll rephrase my point, maknae, such as visual, aren't positions, a group has a face, but if someone else gets more popular, they'll promote that member then, it's a matter of popularity, not talent, same goes for magnae, it's an age thing, every youngest member is a magnae, but being a good vocalist is a talent and something to be worked on, rapper is the same, within a group, it's a matter of comparison to the other members to have a magnae, so it's like being popular for being cute, it's not a position though. The other positions are chosen by themselves, of course, by comparison, someone is a main dancer because they are better at it in comparison to everyone else in the group, but that's a talent, being the youngest member is not a talent, it's not a position, a position is only relevant if it has something to do with the group's abilities, being good at dancing, singing, rapping, things related to music...only. Chocolat ≈ Dubulge (Chat Me Up) 18:04, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The idea of Wikipedia is that we summarize what the sources say, not insert our own personal judgments concerning what is relevant and what is not. Bands often became popular for various reasons besides music and talent. In any case, allkpop has a story about Tae-yeon doing her main vocalist thing here. Here is a story about what a cute little maknae Seohyun is. I didn't come up with anything that explained what a "lead vocalist" might be, so perhaps this phrase is Konglish. Kauffner (talk) 05:28, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with that, but even so, there are articles that talk about groups' foreign members, but they aren't in the "foreign member" position. It's a matter of age, and I think like Evaders99 said, it's relevant enough for you to put it in her description, like if you have it like SHINee's or Chocolat's articles, they have positions, then summaries for each member, where then being a magnae is relevant enough, but for the position profile, only what's musically relevant should be taken into consideration. I also agree that allkpop isn't reliable enough, but that's because it's english, I usually use the source in korean from which allkpop translated their articles. So ultimately, Jessica and Taeyeon have already been identified as Main Vocals by "official" sources, be it themselves or just official articles, and we could perhaps agree that yes, Magnae is something important enough to be mentioned, but not so much that it'd be relevant under the "Position" section. Chocolat ≈ Dubulge (Chat Me Up) 14:27, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I would happen to agree that allkpop would be a good enough source for that. But other editors have a preference for not using allkpop because it is a blog. Ultimately it would be up to SM to provide us an official profile but they haven't. I would certainly agree with you that maknae is generally important for the Korean society, the whole idea that the maknae of the group is treated well. I don't necessarily consider this to be a position like in a band. You could certainly write in prose - "Seohyun is the youngest member (maknae) of the group" and I would have no problem with that. Evaders99 (talk) 08:57, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Which you've already done on the Seohyun article. Looks fine to me. That's the way we should include it. Evaders99 (talk) 09:03, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed 100%. Chocolat ≈ Dubulge (Chat Me Up) 14:27, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * So to summarise, someone writes shameless opinion-based-as-fact on a fanaticism-blog like '3 of the SNDS dance troupe can magically fly' and that is enough to manifest itself as an objective truth on wikipedia. Lord help us all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.115.7.28 (talk) 09:54, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * We can use something called "common sense" to evaluate such claims. The same problem exists whether the source is RS or not. Allkpop generally represents material translated from published Korean sources. We should go back to the original to be fully-guideline compliant. But there will always be room for improvement and that's what Wikipedia's all about. Kauffner (talk) 10:42, 15 January 2012 (UTC)


 * To me positions should be debated agreed but what i dont get is that you guys are on snsd positions while other people are ruining 2ne1 and super jrs members pages u guys are arguing about this. why cant ppl see their positions other groups never released their positions . THIS IS SO MEAN 2 OTHER USERS!!!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by JOFDK (talk • contribs) 03:20, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * To JOFDK: Agreed, but as SONES, we are not the ones responsible for 2NE1 or Super Junior, their fans take care of themselves, if their fans can come to conclusions about positions, then probs to them, but as long as SONES can and will keep editing their pages constantly with false information then it's better not to have that section. Super Junior's article does not have a section for positions as far as I'm aware. I, just like other users, know who has what position in SNSD, but there are other users who don't think that's good enough without backed up information and source, so sorry to you guys, it's not my decision.

Chocolat ≈ Dubulge (Chat Me Up) 10:33, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * All information, including members' positions, must be attributed to a reliable published source - per Verifiability. Given the history of this page, the fact that this fans continue to debate this shows that there is no official positions that can be verified. This is nothing against SNSD - but it is better to follow Wikipedia's policies for a good article and just leave it out until SM Entertainment provides such a statement (which they will never do because they don't have any outside of leader).
 * Sadly a lot of other kpop groups also do not follow this. Thus the same constant back-and-forth editing among the fans. The editors of those articles should weigh in to patrol their own content. Evaders99 (talk) 09:27, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit request from, 22 November 2011
I'm a sone. So I am obsessed with Girls' Generation. Many antis and haters have been writing trash about them on this wiki page and I have been voluntarily fixing them and correcting them. Until just recently, yesterday, this page became protected. This is a good thing. It means there will be less chance of vandalism. However, there are currently still lots of things that need to be fixed, from previous vandals.

For starters, there is no such person as Kimbal. Someone had clearly made a troll, hoax page, hence the: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimbal. There are still 7 mentions of Kimbal on the Girls' Generation page. Please get rid of them, or allow me to moderate this page. I know what I am doing. Trust me.

Under members: Kimbal. No such person. Load of crap.

"In March 2008, the album was repackaged, re-released and re-titled "Baby Baby". A third single, "Baby Baby", was released to promote the album. During the group's promotions, members Kimbal" again. no such Kimbal.

"On September 26, 2011 the first teaser featuring Kimbal was released for the impending comeback with the group's 3rd Korean album The Boys, followed by Kimbal & Hyoyeon on September 27; Yuri, Sooyoung and Taeyeon on September 28 and Yoona, Kimbal, and Seohyun on September 29. The first image teaser for "The Boys" was released on the midnight of October 1, 2011 through SM Entertainment's YouTube channel." Again no Kimbal.

"In March 2011, the group started endorsing the Vita500 brand of energy drinks as part of Vita500's 10th anniversary[111] and exclusive Vita500 posters of Seohyun, Kimbal and Yoona were released." Flipping heck, just Ctrl+F, "Kimbal", DELETE!

And reference no.3: "(Korean) [포토엔]3人3色, 바보시대 서현-티파니-제시카 (Girls' Generation Yoona Kimbal Seohyun" THERE IS NO KIMBAL!!

DaAnimeOtaku (talk) 06:47, 22 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done Good catch, I've removed the remaining references for this vandal. 06:57, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * That was officially the funniest thing I've read in quite a while. I might have to sit down a while because my sides still hurt.

Tiffany featured in the Roommate mini album, NOT YOONA
"In March 2008, the album was repackaged, re-released and re-titled "Baby Baby". A third single, "Baby Baby", was released to promote the album. During the group's promotions, members Jessica, Yoona and Seohyun were also featured on a mini-album released by Roommate, a one-man band from Purple Communication."

It was actually members, Jessica, Tiffany and Seohyun that featured in the album. NOT Yoona! Source: iTunes and http://snsdkorean.com/snsd-members/

DaAnimeOtaku (talk) 04:25, 27 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done fixed Evaders99 (talk) 06:44, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

l love
I love you all and I hope that you continue this good

goodbye iam norah — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.99.85.9 (talk) 16:57, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
 * This is a Saudi IP. I guess the band has fans everywhere. Kauffner (talk) 11:53, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

editsemiprotected request
In Girls' Generation, please change:
 *  ! rowspan=2 align="center" | Position 

to
 *  ! rowspan=2 align="center" | Position((citation needed|date=January 2012))}} 

Alternatively, cut straight to the chase and remove the "Position" column completely and delete (again) its unreferenced/disputed/POV/OR content per consensus in previous discussions on this page.

Thank you. 2.26.147.13 (talk) 18:55, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done by User:Sanguis Sanies. — Bility (talk) 03:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 1 January 2012
Girls' Generation

LordTenebrum (talk) 19:14, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done by a bot. — Bility (talk) 03:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit semi-protected request
Please revert this edit per Talk:Girls' Generation. Thank you. 92.40.33.151 (talk) 13:46, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done - Mato (talk) 17:13, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Position
The position section is very unnecessary and unless you have a valid source to reference it please don't add it. Penpaperpencil (Talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:00, 17 January 2012 (UTC).

Wall Street Journal blog
This video is good for a laugh. Apparently, the members of Girls' Generation are "really pretty" and "everyone [in Korea] loves them". Also, "one of them is good at singing." Now if that's not quality journalism, what is? Kauffner (talk) 10:58, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 February 2012
Reborn j96 (talk) 10:11, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, your edit request did not include any text. If you have a request, please re-enter it. Consider clicking 'Show preview' (next to 'Save page', below), to ensure that your request looks the way you want it to. Please include a link to a reference if the information cannot be confirmed merely by looking at the page, such as a typo or swapping word order. Thanks. Dru of Id (talk) 10:59, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 18 February 2012
I am requesting to add more information on the "Member" list. I would like to add in their weight, height, blood type, position and specialty. Please let me add a few more information to make the profile more specific.

Ishaarontrinh (talk) 23:07, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Not done: The edit semi-protected tempalte doesn't work like that. You need to express your request in a 'please change X to Y' degree of detail and provide reliable sources for any factual changes. Alternatively, you will become autoconfirmed after a few more edits, after which you will be able to make those changes yourself. Welcome and thanks, Celestra (talk) 01:44, 19 February 2012 (UTC)http://www.facebook.com/pages/Girls-Generation-so-nyuh-shi-dae/186235404793520

Edit request on 1 March 2012
According to original reference [75], AKB48 is not a world famous star.

Nessoponte (talk) 05:44, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * why not. it's an easy change. The intent remains clear. Evaders99 (talk) 06:32, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Band member requested moves
There are open RM discussions concerning the titles of band member bios here and here. Sooyoung has appeared in a movie credited as "Choi Soo-young".. Yoona has TV credits as "Yoona." The others don't have official credits, or at least nothing turns up if you search on Billboard or allmovie. "Don't use a first name (even if unambiguous) for an article title if the last name is known and fairly often used," according to WP:NCP. When the most common name is something like "Girl's Generation Yuri", we may consider the need to put titles, "in an encyclopedic register." (WP:TITLE). Kauffner (talk) 20:12, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Diet
The diet stuff is almost certainly nonsense, a publicity gimmick created by some SM agent. But true or not, it appeared in Korea's top newspaper. Chosun Ilbo didn't publish anything SM didn't want them to publish. This story is a little case study in how the entertainment industry manipulates the Korean media. How much band members actually eat is beside the point. Kauffner (talk) 17:09, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Read the second paragraph "Speaking on a SBS TV program on Feb. 3, Kim Ji-hoon said they are allowed seasonal vegetables, five pieces of broccoli, 100 g of grilled chicken breast, and 150 g of brown rice." It does not mention if this meal is per day or per meal (only that they eat 1500 kcal a day), but if you calculate the calories, like here: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=calculate+calories+five+pieces+of+broccoli%2C+100+grams+of+grilled+chicken+breast%2C+150+grams+brown+rice You'll see that it's far closer to 500 calories, which would make sense since it's one meal and therefore eaten three times per day to get the total of 1500. Unless you're seriously suggesting that the seasonal vegetable somehow amounts to over a thousand calories.


 * Even if you disbelieve the story, the article here should make sense. It's like saying "you make ten dollars an hour, which amounts to 2 euros."  That would be stupidly contradictory regardless of if a source article says it. Eldaran (talk) 22:41, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

I found the Diet section incomprehensible. Besides sounding like gossip, it doesn't even make logical sense. Is it talking about 1500 calories per meal? per day? Per person? It the point that they eat a lot because they are so active? I don't get it. Dsav (talk) 09:10, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I say we should remove the whole thing--it's WP:FANCRUFT at best, and has no business in an encyclopedic article. Just because something was once reported in some newspaper somewhere doesn't mean its important to their overall history. If there were some ongoing "controversy", then it coudl stay, but it appears to be marketing puffery. Anyone object if I remove the whole section? Qwyrxian (talk) 10:03, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Almost everything in the article is referenced to music-oriented news sources and fanzines. When the band gets covered by a more mainstream news outfit, that's the opposite of fancruft. Kauffner (talk) 14:55, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 18 April 2012
Hello I believe it is important to incorporate the origin/meaning of their name Girls' Generation which in English comes from and in Korean it means '소녀들이 평정할 시대가 왔다'.

Clarification: I think this should be added to the general introduction to the Girls' Generation Page

The group's name, 'Girls' Generation', was intentionally chosen as statement to acknowledge that ‘the generation of the girls has come'.

Robertshin4 (talk) 02:13, 18 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Pictogram voting question.svg Question: Could you clarify what exact text you want added? --Tyrannus Mundi (talk) 13:53, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. elektrik SHOOS  (talk) 00:14, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 19 April 2012
Girls' Generation has announced their sub-unit named 'Taetiseo'. Members Taeyeon, Tiffany and Seohyun will be in the group with their first mini album titled Twinkle http://www.allkpop.com/2012/04/girls-generation-announces-their-sub-unit-taetiseo

Robertshin4 (talk) 01:54, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done. --Tyrannus Mundi (talk) 13:51, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

2012:Sub-units
Please change


 * On April 19 was released the first incarnation of Girls’ Generation’s new subunit project, Girls’ Generation–TaeTiSeo is comprised of the amazing vocals of Taeyeon, Tiffany, and Seohyun. The first EPs “Twinkle” is expected to be released on May 2nd, 2012.


 * SM Entertainment officially announced the creation of this new subunit on April 19th. They said in a statement, “Girls’ Generation’s subunit will feature the various talents of each Girls’ Generation member by changing the members of the unit according to the music and concept of each new subunit album. This subunit will aim to grab the attention of fans with all aspects of music, performance, and fashion styles.”

to


 * On April 19, SM Entertainment officially announced the creation of a Girls’ Generation subunit, Girls’ Generation–TaeTiSeo, comprising of Taeyeon, Tiffany, and Seohyun. The subunit's first mini-album “Twinkle” is expected to be released on May 2nd, 2012. According to the statement by SM Entertainment, “Girls’ Generation’s subunit will feature the various talents of each Girls’ Generation member by changing the members of the unit according to the music and concept of each new subunit album. This subunit will aim to grab the attention of fans with all aspects of music, performance, and fashion styles.”

In the original version there were some grammatical errors and use of the words “amazing vocals” lacks objectivity. Source remains http://soshified.com/2012/04/taeyeon-tiffany-and-seohyun-to-release-mini-album-on-may-2nd.

Thank You.

Voicedunit (talk) 21:11, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done. --Tyrannus Mundi (talk) 13:50, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Girls' Generation are NOT the First South Korean Musical Act to Perform on a United States Television Show
With all due respect, firstly, I would never take away any honor for no reason and although SNSD made a milestone performing for David Letterman and Kelly Ripa, unfortunately, they are NOT the first south korean musical act to perform on a united states television show due to the Wonder Girls holding that credibility with their performance on the Wendy Williams Show in 2009.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxT_vmRmxE LadySATCHMO (talk) 06:46, 12 June 2012 (UTC)Quintessa Taylor


 * I could not find any source for such, so I removed it. Maybe whoever wrote it got confused with the first to appear on Letterman. Cheers Evaders99 (talk) 07:03, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

It still says "the first Korean act to perform on syndicated television in the United States." right at the intro of the page but in the international section it isn't mentioned any more. It should be rewritten to perhaps say "one of the first" or "only the second" as it's still an important achievement, or perhaps remove it altogether. edit: adding this additional source that mentions Wonder Girls being on the Wendy Williams show, a nationally syndicated program, on July 20 2009

http://www.wendyshow.com/2009/07/17/wendys-birthday-show/ --Radiosonora (talk) 00:58, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Personal opinion statement?
What the? Second paragraph at the top it says: "....establishing their image as the girl next door, very much like Britney Spears in the beginning of her career." I removed it. Is that ok? :-/ Bleubeatle (talk) 02:28, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Good catch--definitely WP:OR. Qwyrxian (talk) 07:21, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Shorten the Intro
It's too long IMO. An intro should just state the more important stuff. There's too much bulk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gittyjona42 (talk • contribs) 21:54, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * It's about 550 words, and it should be about 500 words. So don't shorten it too much. Kauffner (talk) 08:08, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Angel Price Music Festival Incident
Just need to let everyone know that the incident part of this article has been moved to Kim Tae-yeon because that incident relates towards Taeyeon, not exactly the entire group in general. Tibbydibby (talk) 19:59, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Names in hanja
Why are the stage names in hanja for Yuri and Seohyun different from their birth names? Except for the omitted characters, shouldn't they be the same? I can't read hanja, so sorry if I'm completely wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.54.148.202 (talk) 14:22, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yuri's hanja names are the same. I have no idea what's going on with Seohyun. These characters must have come from the Chinese media, since the Korean media isn't using hanja at all nowadays. For all practical purposes, these are simply Chinese names. As they are of interest only to Chinese and Japanese speakers, it is misleading to include them in the article. Kauffner (talk) 17:18, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 5 November 2012
24.239.124.125 (talk) 16:51, 5 November 2012 (UTC) SNSD was supposed to have a comeback last October or Early December but decided not to have a comeback this year.
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 18:49, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Nickname for Fans
SNSD fans go under the nickname of "sones". It would be nice if this were added to the article at some appropriate place. In the 2ne1 article Blackjacks get mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.51.185.47 (talk) 14:48, 26 November 2012 (UTC)


 * It's already on the bottom of the article :D

210.54.148.202 (talk) 23:09, 5 December 2012 (UTC)NR

Edit Request 26 December 2012
Please add name and link for new Korean album currently TBA in discography section. Name of album is I Got A Boy and link to wikipedia page for this is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Got_a_Boy

86.191.81.107 (talk) 19:03, 26 December 2012 (UTC)Joff1981


 * Looks like someone already did, cheers Evaders99 (talk) 20:27, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Paparazzi is the lead single of Girls & Peace?
I am very dubious about the sentence "They returned to the Japanese music scene in June 2012, with "Paparazzi", the lead single from their second Japanese album, Girls' Generation II ~Girls & Peace~", found in the third paragraph.

Paparazzi is the tenth track; moreover, Flower Power is also a Japanese single released in 2012. So what makes a "lead single"? I think this is a vague concept? WangPublic (talk) 06:25, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Good Article renomination
does anyone want GG article to renominated as good article? i know i will need a lot of work but someone might like to reconsider.

Problem with demonstration of Impact section
The demonstration photo of the Impact section reads: "The photo shows that the group had gain influence." But I can't see how it does its job as advertised--after all it's only a placard with SoShi's name and balloon on it. Anyone could come up with a better photo? Thanks. WangPublic (talk) 05:17, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Resolved. Credit to Katmae05. WangPublic (talk) 08:52, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Updating the general introduction to include 2013 Korean comeback
Currently the general introduction at the top only covers activities up until 2012 Japanese albums and subgroup. Could anyone add a description of 2013 I Got a Boy (and probably the following Second Japan Arena Tour)? I currently don't have time to write such articles. Thanks. WangPublic (talk) 05:24, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, I did this job by myself. I wrote it in a hurry so there might be problems in tone, transition, etc. Since things are changing real-time, maybe we can postpone the editing till the dusts has settled. WangPublic (talk) 18:49, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Music style
Music style should be updated to reflect I Got a Boy at least a little bit in detail. Anyone would like to take on this task? WangPublic (talk) 09:06, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Whether "Girls' Generation EXPRESS" should go under a new section
It is related to Girls' Generation, but the relation is loose in my opinion, and it is just too short to be remarkable. If this event should be described in such detail and even go under a new title "commercial activities", then what about 1.2 - 1.13 SMTown Pop-up Store? What about other commercial events endorsing their own brand? There are just too many, and EXPRESS does not stand out ;) (at least to me) WangPublic (talk) 01:06, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Chinese characters
Do we want a chart with the name of each band member given in Chinese characters? IMO, it misleads readers as to what Korean usage is. "South Koreans rarely use it, even for place names or personal names," as MOS:KO puts it. The names never appear in this form in the Korean-language media. I checked for "泰妍" (Tae-yeon) in KBS, SBS , Newsen , and StarNews. So at most, these are their Chinese names. I assume we will not list everyone's names in every language. The logic of the language boxes is that these characters should be confined to the language box, if there is one. Each member of the band has a language box in her own article, and that is the appropriate place for Chinese characters. Kauffner (talk) 03:53, 30 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Hanja is composed of traditional Chinese characters, but certainly not Chinese. For instance, if you look at Girls' Generation's first music video, i.e. "Into the New World", you can see the Hanja name "少女時代" at the end. Anyway, the Hanja names of members are always debatable, since Hangul and Hanja are not one-to-one correspondent, and there is no official source. Regarding Taeyeon, many people believe the official Hanja name should be "金泰耎" (which also appears on Korean Wiki page of Taeyeon), as it is said to appear on her ID, but no one can prove that. (I mean there was a photo, but the photo's reliability... You can tell.) "泰妍" is widely used in China Mainland.


 * To sum up, we can delete the Hanja names, but I think it's important to clarify that Hanja is part of the Korean language, so they are not included randomly. (I don't know much about Korean, though.) WangPublic (talk) 04:40, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Unreliable sources
Please note, that fan websites and blogs are not reliable sources. Please don't put such links as sources in the article! Established magazines and newspapers are to be used for fact verification. Thank you. 小龙 (Timish) # xiǎolóng de xìnxiāng  11:42, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

The article needs better sources as references, so I think we must work together to make the article better. It will take time though so it need patience to work on the article.121.54.42.104 (talk) 17:50, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 10 February 2013
Please update ages of members. Such as Sooyoung. HAPPY BIRTHDAY SOOYOUNG 24th BIRTHDAY (KOREA YEARS)

2602:306:CFC1:EC0:B06D:4D3:698:C43C (talk) 04:43, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: According to the article she was born in 1990, which makes her 23 years old.  The Wikipedia software will automatically update her age to 24 next year.  RudolfRed (talk) 05:13, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Ages on Wikipedia are computed from the date of birth. Korean age is usually one year ahead of actual age, which is not standard. WangPublic (talk) 05:23, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Reflist seems to be a mess
Fixing references is a headache. I don't know why is the case, but seems that a lot of reference links that should be working are actually not—for instance, those in the sections Subgroups and Artistry; and all references afterwards are numbered incorrectly. Seems that references go weird from #155—exactly the beginning of the second reflist column. Is this a bug due to Template:Reflist? Or is there any malfunctioning citation that triggers this behavior? WangPublic (talk) 08:43, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

The reference list seems to be working fine now. BTW, I also had encountered that problem in the past.121.54.42.104 (talk) 17:56, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 20 February 2013
I would like to add a section below the members section at the right side if the article (below the group picture). Below it, add "Past Members" and add the following names: Jang HaJin, Stella Kim, and Park SoYeon

MSTWNTD 19 (talk) 07:08, 20 February 2013 (UTC)


 * No, they never debuted with the girls nor did official promotions as SNSD. They were not members or former members. Park Soyeon's role is mentioned on Park So-yeon (singer), other trainees who never debuted have no real notability to mention. (Since you already marked it, answered) Evaders99 (talk) 07:27, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Chart with full names
I noticed that the chart with full names and birthdates of the band members was deleted just recently. The full names are quite commonly used, for example when they appear in a film or a TV show, so that's certainly relevant information. A whole lot of people are named "Soo-young" in Korea, so the given name is not enough to identify someone. Who's oldest and who's youngest is an issue that gets attention as well. I don't see any harm in including either their birthdates or their Korean names. Kauffner (talk) 06:27, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, age and date of birth are simply routine for every living person. Gathering them on Girls' Generation main page is for convenience of reference (while the exact date of birth may not be deemed important, age is reasonable to appear in any sense).


 * Actually I can't even see why "this article may be written from a fan's point of view." Well, whatever. WangPublic (talk) 08:15, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

SNSD Remix album
is it ok to put snsd "BEST SELECTION NON STOP MIX" remix album on the discography of the group?--121.54.42.104 (talk) 15:42, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * As you can see, currently the discography on the main page only lists major (and mostly original) releases. We do not include, for instance, Kissing You Remix. So my personal answer is no.WangPublic (talk) 22:30, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Reorganisation of History section
The history section of the page really needs a revamp. Not only is it excessively long and unnecessarily detailed, but many of the references are dead links or generally poor references. The section should be brief but concise and mainly talking about the group as a whole; individual activities can go on the member's page. Obviously, the first part would be to start off with the pre-debut section. That section is fairly well done already but some of the info can be moved into a background section and references should be updated and/or replaced. Some help would be appreciated as well. :) Flarepik (talk) 12:23, 5 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I removed some of the info that are not necessary but still.. the history section is still long. Still need some help to shorten the setion.--kathrinamaeb (talk) 16:11, 5 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Some simple contributions would be to post 'good' references regarding their pre-debut or debut. No blogs or self research - just hit up the MOS if anyone's confused about reference choices. Just submit the link or reference with a brief description of what it is about. Flarepik (talk) 10:21, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

File:LG 시네마 3D TV 새 모델 ‘소녀시대’ 영입.jpg to appear as POTD
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:LG 시네마 3D TV 새 모델 ‘소녀시대’ 영입.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on May 23, 2013. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2013-05-23. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:48, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Also known as in individual member articles
I didn't want to start this discussion on the talk page for every individual member so I'll throw it on here. I was looking at the infoboxes for each member and noticed the "also known as" is full of nicknames, none of which are official or acknowledged by SME or anyone other than fans. While some are acceptable (for example Soonkyu for Sunny) others are filled with fan nicknames. Seohyun's is especially bad with nicknames like Maknae, Goddess, & Princess. That's fine if you feel like calling her that but I doubt it needs to be mentioned on an encyclopedic article. I suggest we either remove the AKA section or severely trim it down. DragonFury (talk) 12:53, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Agree! --Christian140 (talk) 13:05, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 18 October 2013
Girls' Generation in January 2012. From left to right: Taeyeon, Hyoyeon, Seohyun, Sooyoung, Tiffany, Sunny and Yuri

Fansites
Please don't add links to fansites such as soshified.com or wonderfulgeneration.net. Thanks. Raykyogrou0 ( Talk ) 16:16, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Jessica has allegedly been dismissed from the group.
She posted an update to her Weibo account saying "I was excited about our upcoming fan events only to shockingly be informed by my company and 8 others that as of today, I'm no longer a member. I'm devastated - my priority and love is to serve as a member of GG, but for no justifiable reason, I am being forced out". She also later posted that she was deeply saddened that she had been hurt by "those she trusted". There are debates that it's a hacker, but Korean media is reporting that the reason is that she was neglecting SNSD in favour of her company "Blanc" and wanting to get married to Tyler Kwon.

http://blog.koreaboo.com/post/98777747568/breaking-dispatch-reveals-insight-into-why-girls http://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/2htp47/snsds_jessica_on_her_weibo_i_was_excited_about/?sort=new http://www.allkpop.com/article/2014/09/exclusive-statement-from-sm-entertainment-regarding-girls-generations-jessicas-leaving-the-group http://www.allkpop.com/article/2014/09/jessicas-absence-at-the-airport-weibo-update-lack-of-response-from-sm-leave-fans-worrying-stock-prices-drop http://www.allkpop.com/article/2014/09/jessica-dropped-from-girls-generation https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Byv1I-aCcAEyF7B.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.16.255.231 (talk) 03:12, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, it's already confirmed, and the page has been edited to reflect this.ចេក ម៉ានុត (talk) 07:03, 30 September 2014 (UTC)


 * It's confirmed on blogs, therefore that is not enough to make any changes. Do not change the members list or add any silly former sections until there are official words by SM in the form of a website change or press conference. The issue is still ongoing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SinaH (talk • contribs) 01:41, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

This is the official statement from SM Entertainment http://m.smtown.com/Board/Details/6885506 and this is the direct translation from eNewsWorld http://mwave.interest.me/enewsworld/en/article/77155/sm-makes-official-statement-on-jessica. Based on these two articles, it seems like this portion of the statement confirms that Jessica is really a former member.
 * 이에 당사는 8인 체제의 소녀시대 활동을 당초보다 앞당기는 것으로. 결정할 수 밖에 없었으며, 그 발표 시점 등을 논의하는 과정에서, 제시카 본인의 시각으로 금일 새벽에 글이 게재되었습니다. 향후 당사는 8인 체제의 소녀시대 및 제시카의 개인 활동에 대한. 변함없는 지원과 매니지먼트를 해 나갈 예정입니다.


 * Or its English translation here


 * "With this, the company decided it had to promote SNSD with eight members sooner than expected, and while it was discussing when to announce the news, Jessica posted her own perspective in the early morning." SM Entertainment wrote last, "From this point onward, the company will unchangingly support and manange SNSD with eight members as well as Jessica′s personal activities."--TerryAlex (talk) 03:19, 2 October 2014 (UTC)


 * It is pretty straight forward, albeit heartbreaking, according to these statements: Jessica IS a former member now. Though, she is still an SM Artist operating under the agency until further notice and might even have a solo debut like Taemin. So we will not be putting her in the former list section of SM Entertainment at least. But as far as Girls' Generation is concerned, it cannot be helped. FudgeFury (talk&#124;sign&#124;contribs) 07:42, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Roles
I'm interested in the roles that the girls play in the group. I know that they have titles and in other kpop group pages they have titles for the members but I don't know them so I can't add them. Would this be a good addition? And if so can someone add it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.195.109.233 (talk) 03:41, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Let me explain this in simple words. I can put any role that comes to my mind. I can call them rappers, dancers, sub-vocalists etc. You can too. Another editor may not agree with you or me and they may add roles of their own choice. I hope you can see that this is not a good idea. How can this problem be fixed so that everyone can agree on a reliable set of roles? The answer is simple. we need reliable sources like newspapers and magazines who have published these roles. Your word or mine is simply not enough. So the question is: Do you know of any reliable magazines or newspapers which have published their roles? Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις   04:00, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
 * What "roles" are you talking about? Like one of them is the "leader" of the group or something?  Raykyogrou0  ( Talk ) 08:01, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
 * "Roles" is another name for "positions". Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις  08:44, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
 * T?his is actually interesting stuff--"maknae"? I find this very strange. Let's face it, it's not really about singing qualities and stuff like that. Yes, if all this could be reliably sourced (but in this case a company source might be OK--I mean, SM or whoever wouldn't have much of a reason to lie about that sort of thing, right?) maybe it could be there--like Lemmy has bass, vocals. Dr.K., I see now that I got your name and punctuation wrong somewhere today; Dr. K is getting pinged and probably has no idea why. Drmies (talk) 01:23, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Member section
Why is this needed?--TerryAlex (talk) 18:19, 30 December 2014 (UTC) It does make sense for some groups to still have the Members section cause all articles about musical groups have the right to have it. If some are removed for whatever reasons, there are still thousands. In fact some groups even have separate articles for this: List of AC/DC band members (there are tables and everything) And even Pink Floyd live backing musicians. So anyway, if it is okay for AC/DC, it's okay for Girl's Generation. If you really don't want it to be removed, don't remove them. And I don't get it. If you someone doesn't agree with what has been done to other article, why do the same to Girl's Generation? Why not to Crayon Pop, you seem to like Crayon Pop a lot and you didn't remove the table from their article. [And don't please.]. :-) --Moscow Connection (talk) 21:59, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Because all articles about musical groups are supposed to have a Members section. By the way, there is even a special template, specially for K-pop groups: Template:K-pop group members table. --Moscow Connection (talk) 18:29, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
 * , if you look the recent discussion on my talk page (as well as the talk page of A Pink), you will see the rationale for removing the table. It was not my idea to remove it. has been removing the tables, and it doesn't make sense for some groups to have it and some not., dates aren't supposed to go in the infobox so that won't work as an alternative. --Random86 (talk) 21:13, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
 * , alright, if dates aren't supposed to go inside the infobox, that's fine. It has been indicated within the article anyways.--TerryAlex (talk) 21:17, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Could you just give me the direct links? (Or even better, diffs.) I don't want to search for discussions in random places.
 * , Here are some diffs for A Pink: 1, 2, 3, 4. Discussions on my talk page are User talk:Random86/Archive 1 (first three posts only) and User talk:Random86/Archive 1. Here's the short version: thinks "four different spellings" (birth and stage names, in Hangul and romanization) is too much, and he thinks birth dates are irrelevant and unreliably sourced because you can't trust the entertainment companies (the source of this information). A quote from my talk page: "There isn't a single place on Wikipedia where such lists have anything but name and instrument. At best you find a range of dates for when they were in a band. You never find birthdates". As I mentioned above, he has been removing the member tables with this rationale. To make the K-pop pages consistent, I started removing more of them. I was also thinking it might provoke more discussion, which it has, so thank you. Now, I personally don't have a problem with the member table, especially when the members don't have their own articles. But, I'm not familiar with how this kind of section is done on other parts of Wikipedia. Drmies provided examples, and it does look like birth dates are not usually included. So, you are probably going to have to talk to Drmies. --Random86 (talk) 22:50, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

But I must say that the line-up of this particular group is very simple, and that something simple like this would probably not work for some groups. I can try to come up with a neater table formatting. I wanted to do something like this for you can guess which other group with 100 members or so... Like, the "roster" can be made to look like this:. (You can laugh and I won't mind if in this particular article you replace the table with a list like I've suggested above, but for some groups something like this will probably be neccessary.) What if I try? (Not now, in a week or so.) By the way, The sourcing is simply not there for your girls — for this particular group it's certainly there. I can find third-party sources for their birthdays easily if you want. And the argument (I haven't read other discussions, but says you said something like this) that you can't trust their agencies is not really a good argument in my opinion. Cause many people have changed their birth years and you can't trust any agencies, not just the Korean ones. E.g. you can't trust the birth date of any Hollywood star from the 1930s, and they have birthdays in their articles. --Moscow Connection (talk) 23:59, 30 December 2014 (UTC) As for the birthdays, we should not ask our readers to click 18 times going back and forth and probably scrolling, too, to find out everyone's birthday. Why would you do this to people? Waste anyone's time? I personally rarely look at member's articles, I want all information in one place. (By the way, in the case of K-pop groups, their birthdays are usually listed everywhere, they are a part of the group's image. It's not like a heavy metal band when no one cares.) (And by the way, I've looked at some articles and there are no Korean spellings. I can only guess someone have removed them as unnecessary.) And basically, the list of members is the most important information in the whole article, it's probably the only part 90 percent people read. We have enough space on Wikipedia for everything. --Moscow Connection (talk) 00:48, 31 December 2014 (UTC) I can't really explain why birthdays are needed but usually they are put in bands' profiles and repeated everywhere. So Wikipedia should do the same, as it shouldn't change the way the group is presented to the public. Anyway, I should probably forget about it now. --Moscow Connection (talk) 02:37, 31 December 2014 (UTC) (Anyway, some list of members is needed. It's not right to just delete it. The existance of a members list fully complies with the manual of style for articles related to music.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 02:51, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Moscow, you know I don't put any stock in the "all K-pop articles have it". It means nothing--well, it means that things have gotten seriously out of hand. That there is a special template doesn't mean that it's OK--it just means that, well, things have gotten seriously out of hand. The other day someone was offended by my use of the word "template porn", but that's what this is: gratuitous fabrication and insertion of templates. "All K-pop articles have it"--if it were up to the fans (you know who they are) these lists would have official and favorite colors zodiac signs and blood types; you know I'm not inventing that, I've seen it. Now, that some bands have separate articles for band members, yeah, sure, but let's not pretend that Girls' Generation or JJ Whatever are "like" AC/DC or Black Sabbath or so. For those bands, (most) individual band members are clearly notable, and in many cases the various changes in personnel have a legitimate encyclopedic relevance. Do not compare apples with pears; just look at the references, and apply some common sense. "if it is okay for AC/DC, it's okay for Girl's Generation"--in principle, maybe, but practically speaking it's pure nonsense since the sourcing is simply not there for your girls. (And I still haven't heard an argument for why all these spellings and all these variants and these unreliably sourced dates of birth are somehow relevant or necessary.) Drmies (talk) 23:01, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
 * All these spellings — definitely don't matter that much. Cause the Korean ones are repeated two times and the table looks rather awful. But something like:
 * Jessica (제시카, Jung Soo-yeon), b. April 18, 1989 (age 25) — left in 2014
 * would look okay and be almost as informative. (Less detailed than the current table, but it will suffice cause someone who wants to know the Korean name will have some basic understanding of the Korean writing system already.)
 * For those members that don't have a separate article, sure. But for those that do have their own, the information can be obtained there. If someone looks at the infobox for this page (along with History:2014), they know that Jessica is already a past member. Anything regarding her name, etc. are mentioned on her own article.--TerryAlex (talk) 00:10, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 * An infobox is only intended to summarize what the article says elsewhere. And I've already said that all articles about bands have a members section. If you want to remove the sections completely, you should go to the Music project and file a formal petition there.
 * No, you need to ask yourself why a birthdate is necessary; I still haven't heard an answer to that. "The reader wants to know" isn't really the only parameter here, you know. (If a reader wants to know a birthdate, why don't they just go to the company page?) Yes, I am well aware that it's part of the K-pop thing, but what you are saying is we should follow the marketing strategies of the entertainment companies that make these groups. And you're proposing three names in two different spelling systems--again, why? Why would we need to know a stage name and a real name for someone who is in a band (i.e., not a solo artist) and is not notable in her own right? That's why I keep saying, "pick one". Now, everything is better than those awful tables, for sure, so this would be progress, but still. And yes, I am sticking to my guns on the sourcing thing: we have a policy, and it's found at WP:BLP. It applies here. A Hollywood star from the 1930s, you can bet that someone has looked into it, and has written it up in a book or a reliable publication. In this area, we are dependent completely on the production companies, and that's just not a good thing. If we can't trust Allkpop and those kinds of sites, then we certainly shouldn't automatically trust the owners of these groups, their contracts, their social lives and their bodies ("We Got Married"), their sexualities, and their public image. Why would you trust them? Don't you know that youth is a very marketable commodity? Drmies (talk) 01:17, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 * All this nonsense is back at the EXO article: "Xiumin 	시우민 	金珉錫 	김민석 	Kim Min Seok", and then birthdate and stupid little flags for nationalities (in violation of MOS:FLAG. Drmies (talk) 01:45, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for leaving the list of members in that article... Actually, I was going to ask you to leave the table(s) in but... Cause EXO is one of the groups I had in mind when I was talking about the necessity of the tables to show everything clearly. (And with nationalities, yes.) (But okay, Dr.K. saved me lots of time by deleting the list from here, so I better go back to other things. I will think about it later, but I'm in a hurry creating articles somewhere else.)
 * (Correction to my reply from 23:59, 30 December 2014) I made a mistake when I said that "the Korean ones are repeated two times". Cause the Korean names werent't repeated twice... There are some groups when they use their real Korean names in the group, but Girl's Generation is not the case...

Real name of the group
Why did you do it? 
 * 1) The group is Korean. 소녀시대 is their real name. If you can't read it, it doesn't mean that you can remove it.
 * 2) Read Manual of Style/Infoboxes. An infobox "summarizes key features of the page's subject". It's only intended to summarize what is said somewhere else.
 * 3) "So Nyeo Shi Dae" in the lead by itself looks completely out of place and scary. It's not some random inexplicable unreadable set of characters as it looks now. It's simply 소녀시대 romanized. --Moscow Connection (talk) 03:58, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

I'll explain a little bit more. My version was: Girls' Generation (소녀시대, So Nyeo Shi Dae, also known as SNSD; 少女時代)

What does this mean? It mean that the group's name is "소녀시대", which is pronounced as "So Nyeo Shi Dae" and that's why the group is also known as "SNSD". (It's an abbreviation.) Understand? (The Japanese name may go, but everything else must stay in the lead). --Moscow Connection (talk) 04:06, 31 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Since SNSD is an English fanmade name, I think something like this is a better alternative.
 * Girls' Generation (소녀시대 So Nyeo Shi Dae; 少女時代 Shōjo jidai) is a South Korean girl group formed by S.M. Entertainment in 2007.--TerryAlex (talk) 06:51, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I (almost) agree. (I 100% agree that SNSD is most probably an English fan-made name. But it is very popular and they are even referred like this in reliable sources, look: . There's even a print Billboard magazine. I think it should be mentioned.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 07:45, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 * But isn't that what "alias" is for? I already see it listing "SNSD, SJJD, Soshi and GG". If we want to do it professionally though, they should only be referred to as So Nyeo Shi Dae or Shōjo jidai (and of course Girls' Generation).--TerryAlex (talk) 07:55, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, now that I think about it. "Alias" should only contain: So Nyeo Shi Dae and Shōjo jidai (their official names). SNSD, GG, etc. are only nicknames, it's like calling Seohyun "maknae" or "Baby Seo".--TerryAlex (talk) 16:24, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Use of the word "topped"
I've always assumed this refers to ranking #1 on a chart/list. The lead here says, "The group also topped Forbes's Korea Power Celebrity 40 list for the years of 2011-2014" even though they were #2 in 2013. It sounds misleading to me. Oxford and Macmillan seem to indicate it means ranking #1. --Random86 (talk) 01:02, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Fix it, it was my mistake, sorry.--TerryAlex (talk) 01:12, 27 January 2015 (UTC
 * No problem. :) --Random86 (talk) 01:40, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 March 2015
YulTiSoo (talk) 06:06, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
 * No request made-- Chamith  (talk)  06:15, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 March 2015
Pls extend the Girl's Generation Filmography.YulTiSoo (talk) 06:04, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

YulTiSoo (talk) 06:04, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi YulTiSoo we will try our best to improve those sections. You should know that Wikipedia content must have cited published reliable sources as references. If you can help us improve those sections that would be great. Best- Chamith  (talk)  06:18, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

There is are now 4 videos with 100 Million views on Youtube for Girls' Generation.
On April 9, 2015, the Dance Version of the Mr. Taxi video reached 100 Million views on Youtube. Making it Girls' Generation's 4th video to reach that many views.

Source: http://www.kpopstarz.com/articles/191571/20150410/girls-generation-mr-taxi-dance-version.htm 90.195.150.31 (talk) 13:21, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 August 2015
To whom it may concern: Hi! I would just like to ask for your permission to edit the main photo used for this page :) Now that Girls' Generation is an 8-member group, I'd like to replace the picture with a recent one, if you won't mind? I miss Jessica as well, but to keep the timeliness of Soshi's Wikipedia page, I just thought that changing the group's photo with a recent one would work best. :) Thank you and more power! SONES, fighting~

Vjiyen (talk) 12:53, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Not done for now: Please make your request for a new image to be uploaded to Files For Upload. Once the file has been properly uploaded, feel free to reactivate this request to have the new image used. Please note that the picture must not be copyright, which excludes almost all images that you find on the internet, in magazines etc., and you will need proof that it is not copyright, just saying it is not copyright is not acceptable. - Arjayay (talk) 18:21, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 December 2015
Sunny is a current member.

46.59.24.150 (talk) 14:14, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ reverted by another at 14.37 - Arjayay (talk) 16:53, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Main Photo
I know this has already been discussed but the main photo still needs to be updated to an 8 member image --EnderAtreides117 (talk) 11:13, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed, the picture is almost four years old and not terribly up to date, even if Jessica hadn't left. personally I think the Lion Heart picture further down the article is pretty well suited. DragonFury (talk) 11:45, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 December 2015
Please add after this sentence "The group is composed of eight members: Taeyeon, Sunny, Tiffany, Hyoyeon, Yuri, Sooyoung, Yoona, and Seohyun." As well as previous member Jessica Jung.

46.185.201.243 (talk) 17:48, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * It does not fit the flow of the sentence. I am sure that people would know that Jessica was a member by looking at the caption of the main photo.

External links modified
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Philanthropy
Do you think that this section is relevant? Philanthropy is okay for individuals, but for the whole group, charity activities are often arranged by the label... . Simon (talk) 10:44, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Member's name arrangement.
On the very first photo (topmost), from left to right, giving each ember's name, it should be ...Yoona, Tiffany, Seohyun... not the other way around. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jiwonprk (talk • contribs) 16:08, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Too outdated?
This is based on a source from 2011, but it sounds current because it's is present tense (and Kara is now de facto disbanded). Is there a more updated source, or way to re-write this? One solution would be to change to past tense (In 2011, they were regarded as the most popular K-pop girl group in Japan alongside Kara), but if they are still the most popular Korean girl group in Japan a newer source would be better. Random86 (talk) 05:17, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I did a quick research, and found two articles from Manila Bulletin dated back in 2014. One is "K-pop best selling act in first half of 2014" while the other one is "K-pop artists named in Japan’s top 50 concert acts list" . Although it did not explicitly state the status of their popularity, Girls' Generation is the only K-pop girl group being mentioned. Can these two sources be used with some rewording?--TerryAlex (talk) 06:24, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Since Girls' Generation is the only K-pop girl group mentioned in those refs, I think it does support their status as most popular. They also set the record for concert spectators in 2014. I think the current wording (most popular alongside Kara) should be moved to the 2011 section, and something else written for the lead. Maybe They were the first non-Japanese girl group to have three number-one albums on the Japanese Oricon Albums Chart, and their three Japanese concert tours attracted 550,000 spectators, setting the record for a K-pop girl group. That would show how popular they are without explicitly stating it. Random86 (talk) 07:02, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Image section
Adding info to an image that is already in the main body and doesn't relate directly with the image itself it entirely superfluous. It's clutter which doesn't add anything to the article itself. DragonFury (talk) 09:11, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Then I'll add the performance of "The Boys" to clarify. Simon (talk) 09:19, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Much better, thank you. DragonFury (talk) 09:41, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 May 2016
In 2012–2014 section, the caption under the picture is wrong --> "Girls' Generation posing for an LG Cinema 3D TV commercial in 2013"; the picture was taken in 2012, not 2013 86.58.36.235 (talk) 09:15, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

86.58.36.235 (talk) 09:15, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * ✅ - by another - Arjayay (talk) 12:06, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Infobox image
Is File:Girls' Generation at DMC Festival 2015 MBC Radio DJ Concert 02.jpg really licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International license? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 18:11, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is. I just double checked the source. Random86 (talk) 18:16, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Where does it say it at that site? Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 18:27, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Look for the CC icon below the last photo, on the right. Random86 (talk) 20:37, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Black Ocean
The Black Ocean affair should be mentioned. http://www.allkpop.com/article/2014/03/girls-generation-talk-about-their-infamous-ten-minute-black-ocean-incident, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5kI5IpE5uI, https://kpopalypse.wordpress.com/2013/11/19/lightsticks-and-sones-wont-break-my-bones-the-truth-about-k-pop-black-oceans/ 17:50, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
 * First of all, the websites mentioned above are all unreliable sources. Secondly, this incident is too insignificant and had more to do with fans speculations.--TerryAlex (talk) 19:12, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I concur with TerryAlex on the second part; the black ocean incident may have been a news item at the time but its relevance is long behind us. Additionally it was something that was done by fans based on speculation, not anything concrete from the group or SM Entertainment. DragonFury (talk) 20:32, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree with and . This is too speculative to include. Random86 (talk) 20:59, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
 * May i ask what is speculative about using lightsticks?Its common knowledge they are used to symbolize support for an artist/group especcialy in the K-pop world.Heck even in the Legacy section theres an image saying how they have gained support showcasing the pink oceanfully lit up(which is a nice nod to the event).Its also the first of its kind as far as i can see.While not a new section it can be added to the Legacy section to show how much they have influenced the industry or if its too cheesy it can be added to the debut section.Junkoo (talk) 20:53, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

correction suggestion
In the box, "Gee" is described as the "magnum opus" of bubblegum pop. The correct phrase would be "ne plus ultra." Ansat (talk) 03:27, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 December 2016
In the lead, change "They are the first girl group to achieve four music videos with over 100 million views on YouTube: "Gee", "I Got a Boy", "The Boys", and "Mr. Taxi". to "They are the first girl group to achieve five music videos with over 100 million views on YouTube: "Gee", "I Got a Boy", "The Boys", "Mr. Taxi", and "Oh!". 86.58.36.145 (talk) 14:42, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * ✅ - by another - Arjayay (talk) 14:57, 14 December 2016 (UTC)