Talk:Gitanos (version 2)

Gitanos don-t live only in Andalusia, but in another regions too.

Around 40% of Gitanos live in Andalusia but also in the rest of Spain, Southern France (Perpignan area bordering with Spain) and in Morrocco. Contrary to what is written below, Gitanos did not invent Flamenco (an Andalusian art) but contributed greatly to it. Roma are not creators of any of the musical styles listed below. They have influenced some of them... "Roma in Spain" and "Gitanos" perhaps should be merged but they are not the same thing. There are Roma immigrants in Spain who are not Spanish (coming from the Balkans) and are not Gitanos. Gitanos are ethnic Roma but are also ethnic Spanish (wherever they live).--Burgas00 13:13, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

True
It´s true Roma People live in many countries especially Eastern Europes: Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria and Russia. It is also important to mention they also are related to people of the americas like the Weastern Cowboys, Mexican Charros, Venezuelan Llaneros, Peruvian Morochucos or Piuran Piajeno Men, Gauchos of Argentin and Huasos of Chile.

They are not only creaters of the flamenco and cante jondo whom root in the Hungarian Zards pre Boleros and Tangos but also are the creaters of Country,Jazz and traditional Blues Cowboy Music, Ranchers and Mariachi of Mexico, Peruvian Tondero-Zamacueca-Marinera and Valse rythms and even caribean or Cuban mambos, rumbas, guarachas, guajiras and traditional salsa (rythms that where already gypsy hearted before the africans joined them).

Reason why Roma People are not Purely Indian but Hindosthani-Iranian:

Roma People are of indoaryan-indoirani or indopersian-afghan roots as invaders and settelers of old Punjab, Pothohari-Kashmir and Rajasthan desert regions.

They split into 2 groups: ones that where captured by arabs and went west (the ones who reached Europe and Africa), and ones that left to the Thar Desert of Rajasthan never to return to Mewar-Kashmir and Punjab regions until Rama Soldier dinasty would rename its power.

They dont even belong to North Indian casts since they have persian roots and looks, although some have mixed with Dravidian and mongolian peoples most of them look like old Hidosthans: Afghans- Pakistanies from the north and North Indian bollywood actors.

Many of them have tan reddish like skin and even green eyes. Men tend to grow their hair and moustashes long, some were priests but most of them were Soldiers and rebelles agains mongols and arabs.

Since they outcasted themselves from North Indian peoples they still live as nomads, magicians, musicians, acrobats, great horse riders and poets in the Rajasthan regions of India and along the mountians of Pakistan; as blacksmiths.

Famous people of romany descent are: Elvis, Chaplin, Yul Brynner, Cantinflas (Mexican actor Mariano Moreno) and many others who lost their traveling roots but still have the arts of gypsy people..

No..there is 2 groups who came from India...neither was captured by Arabs..Arabs=gitanos are the same they are Semites~Hebrews from Northern Africa, The other was Indo Europeans..them Italian looking Europeans. I have no idea why it's the norm to use that generic image for gitanos & Arabs. Today that type of people is being killed by Arab people that is why Western people was confused with Saddam killing certain groups who are born in his country but are not Arab. there is a caste system they seem to follow..even if one is Indo-European if the "white" blood is say from England he will be lower class than another Indo European with a German background. these 2 groups seem to hate each other hence the issues in Israel which is under control by non Hebrews many being descendents from when Rome invaded and European converts. --Mari

Merge
I am happy with merging Roma in Spain into this article. Asterion 19:40, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Because there are Roma in Spain other than Gitanos, Gitanos should be merged into Roma in Spain. -- TheMightyQuill 11:56, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Not all Gitanos consider themselves Roma. Many of them are not Roma but descendant of Ethnic Andalusians who refused to give up their religion (Islam) and be deported after 1492. There are many books and documentaries in the issue (i.e. Pilar Tavora's). The very name Flamenco, so linked to Gitanos, comes from Arabic Fellah Mengu, peasant without land, according to Blas Infante. Therefore merging Gitanos into Roma in Spain would be POV pushing. It is true that there are many Roma newcomers from Romania and Slovakia in Spain now but the reality is they are not seen as the same people by Gitanos. Regards, Asterion talk to me 16:44, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Asterion, I think you know that this story about fellah mengu is very romantic but not based on fact (I personally wish it were true). However, there is no proof to support this assertion by Blas Infante. And as far as I know (I have some knowledge of Arabic) Fellah/Fella7 does mean peasant in Arabic, but mengu (as far as I know) doesnt mean anything. This could be added to the article as a theory, but not as hard fact. Also we should not mistake Andalusian ethnicity with Islam. You should not fall for the ideology and historical revisionism which is linked to certain sectors of Andalusian nationalism. It is useful to combat the other extreme which is the perspective of the "Novísima Castilla" but we must remain within the limits of historical fact.

I think you are from Andalucia yourself. Where from? Perhaps you could help me improve the Andalusian people article, which I find rather limited and with some mistakes.

--Ismael76 10:40, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Gitanos (Roma) from Punjab in India?
Today, however, it is generally thought that their origin lies in the Punjab region of India.

No source is mentioned for this statement. I doubt the authenticity of this statement as I am myself from the Punjab region and in the local history we never heard of any immigration to Europe as nomads and Punjabi people have never been nomads as far as the recorded history goes. Their civilization depends on rivers and all their major cities are situated on the riverbanks from the times unknown. Seasonal and resource variations are not such which could have forced them to move from place to place.

Please cite the source if anybody knows.