Talk:Glam rock/Archive 1

Screaming Lord Sutch needs to be added
Screaming Lord Sutch's 1970 album "Screaming Lord Sutch and Heavy Friends" needs to be added because it was the first attempt at a hard rock glam album. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.197.208.99 (talk) 05:38, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Added some
Namely Thomas Dolby, Blondie, Lene Lovich, Nina Hagen, Frank Zappa, etc.. I guess the androgeny was a big part of it, then what do you call Blondie and David Bowie, the concept of becoming a fictional chracter on stage.. David Bowie told people on stage he would never been Ziggy again, the idea was he attached his addiction to drugs with his on stage persona. Also Debra Harry identified herself on stage as this sex symbol but she was who she was on stage.. Read the Blondie Biography if you don't believe me. I guess Queen, Blondie, Frank Zappa, Alice Cooper, and such belong to a genre called Rock opera.


 * I am adding a comment on the bottom of this page, partly in response to this comment and the additions. I guess I should say here that I do not agree that Blondie or Frank Zappa are "Glam rock," but I am not going to remove them.  It would take a lot more than that for this article as its stands now, with its different and conflicting ideas of what "Glam rock" is, to make much sense. Zeutron 17:33, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Frankly, when it comes to statements like "The most famous exponents..." you know there's going to be some disagreement. I don't think that anyone is going to argue too strenuously bout Bowie being a "famous exponent" but practically all others are up for grabs. Really, I've never even heard of Marc Bolan (listed as "famous") and I'm not bringing any of the music of Slade to mind. I'm not even sure if that's a group or a guy.

But here you have an example of what happens when editorial statements are presented as fact. The article needs to site more sources and back up some of its arguments.

There's something else that's bugging me about that paragraph. I'm not sure what is meant by "Other influential performers include...." Are we saying they influenced Glam Rock? The thing that makes the sentence confusing is the word "Other." Because of that, it is implied that the previous people in the list are influential as well, but they are part of the "famous exponents" list. So really, I don't understand it at all.

I think the article needs some more work. Gingermint (talk) 22:15, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Merge of "Glam Rock"
This text was at the incorrectly capitalized Glam Rock and should be merged into this article:

Branch of pop music in the early 1970s in Britain. Popularised by Marc Bolan and David Bowie, it also included lesser lights such as Slade, Gary Glitter and Sweet. Other bands such as Roxy Music were temporarily associated with the fad, but lived to fight another day. Purveyors of Glam Rock dressed in platform boots, wore elaborate make up and sequinned stage costumes inspired by science fiction and alien motifs. In the hands of someone like Bowie (on for instance his landmark album Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders From Mars) this represented a playful exploration of themes of gender, androgny and alienation, whereas Slade were essentially bricklayers in second rate drag (although they produced excellent pop music).

I really like this text (above). It is far superior to what is presently posted.Gingermint (talk) 22:19, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh, except for the editorializing of course. As fun as it is it shouldn't really be in an article. Bricklayers in second-rate drag? Gingermint (talk) 22:21, 11 July 2009 (UTC) -

New York Dolls
Surely something on the influence of the New York Dolls needs to be added to this article??? and the direct lineage from glam to Punk rock quercus robur
 * Absolutely. I've added some words on them ~GZ 11/4/05

Rewrite
Hmm...I think this article needs a rewrite. Glam rock wasn't about "statements against Pink Floyd" or "unabashed embracing of fame and wealth". It was about fun. To mention acts peripheral to the movement (Roxy Music, David Bowie and Jobriath) and not mention Slade at all (except at number 20 in a list) is ridiculous. --Auximines 09:44, 11 May 2004 (UTC)


 * I partly agree with you - though to call Roxy and Bowie "peripheral" is to my mind completely wrong - they were central figures. There were a lot of acts that jumped on this particular bandwagon (as always) and made superficial music (as always), much of which is what is largely remembered. I wouldn't count Slade amongst them however, I think you're right in that they deserve more prominence. Jobraith is hard to comment about - I'd never heard of him, but clearly someone thought he deserved a big heap of credit in this article, which might simply be a case of fan worship overcoming encyclopedic objectivity. Feel free to amend, append or edit as you see fit - though as it stands I feel the article does make some worthwhile points. Graham 22:45, 11 May 2004 (UTC)


 * I'm glad I'm not the only one not to have heard of Jobriath! I'm inclined to remove all references to him. My point was, say "glam rock" to anyone who remembers the period, and they will think first of Slade, Sweet, T Rex, Gary Glitter and Wizzard. Roxy Music weren't really mainstream glam, more a forerunner. Bowie...you're right, he was pretty central to everything. He did so much you can't label him. As for superficiality, I agree many of the bands were superficial, but that's not a reason to exclude them.


 * Here's what I think needs doing:


 * - Tone down the pretentious bits of the first paragraph and get the word 'fun' somewhere in there.
 * - Add another large paragraph about glam at its height. Detail some of the excesses and mention some of the biggest hits.
 * - Prune the list a bit, removing the obscure entries and the non-glam entries. The longer these lists get, the less useful they are.


 * --Auximines 08:05, 12 May 2004 (UTC)


 * I've heard of Jobriath, I'm certain many others have as well. Englishrose 20:54, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

This is rediculous. WHy the hell is Maralyn Manson on the list of Glam Rock acts?

The article needs a cleanup. Too many cooks wanting to make sure their 80s/90s faves are mentioned have spoiled the broth.

Glam73 04:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)==Glam scenes== I tend to disagree with parts of the summary, and with much of the comments here. I think there are a few different forms of glam rock, and there are different artists in the forefront of each "scene".

The scene I most identify with, the one reflected in Todd Haynes "Velvet Goldmine" and the inspiration for "Hedwig", was not precisely about fame, wealth, or fun - it was about self-invention, sexuality, decadance (wealth is only a small part), and *subversion*. This history starts with Marc Bolan and T.Rex (now *that* was a ridiculous ommission), followed by Bowie, who is *the* archtype for glam rock - no argument, other artists include Iggy Pop, Lou Reed, of course Roxy Music, and the NYDolls. Many of these artists, Iggy most prominently, are also called "proto-punk" because of their later influence.

Though there was a lot of affectation and certainly the icons and the followers enjoyed themselves to excess, history has shown that these are some of the most revolutionary and profound *artists* in popular music. No one can tell me that Yes is more "artistic" than Lou freakin Reed, I mean, please!

No offense meant here to more feelgood and bubblegum glam like Sweet and Slade, I think they're great and their music does exactly what it was intended to do. But there was absolutely nothing subversive or provocative about them, they embraced the style of the movement, but not the spirit.

Oh, yeah, and Jobraith was huge in Britain, but history has swept him under the carpet.

-- Deborah http://www.geocities.com/glamcandy


 * Velvet Goldmine was Todd's fantasy on what glam could have been. The Sweet/Slade etc. type of glam was far more popular and prevailing.


 * If we break it down to 'glam scenes' I guess there'd be:


 * The Bowie/Jobriath/BeBop arty rock stuff.


 * The Sweet/Slade trad glam.


 * The Gary/Alvin/Suzi/Mud glitter stuff.


 * The NYDolls/HBrats proto-punk.


 * The Showaddywaddy/Rubettes 50s revivalists.


 * The KISS/Alice/Silverhead HR/metal stuff.


 * The Roxy/DSchool/CRebel cabaret/theatre stuff.


 * ...I think that's about it! Maybe there should be a section on glam sub-genres? Metalion SOS 01:20, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

It seems that some 35 + years after Glam Rock first popped it's glittery visage into the Rock Scene and Popular Culture, most people still don't know what to make of or how to "define" "Glam Rock"?

Glam Rock, started in late 1970 with "Ride a White Swan" by T.Rex. It was almost a complete one man show until the end of 71, when Slade & Rod Stewart started to make their presence known. Although, Sweet were in the charts by then "Co Co" was definitely not Glam!

The story really started in 72 and hit it's peak in 73. By end of 73/early 74 the light weight, 2nd generation "glam rock acts" began to take over. That said, some great singles came out of that period and even "real" bands like Cockney Rebel and of course Queen.

Now, anything after 1976 isn't really part of the original glam movement. Glam was out and Punk was in, as a matter of fact,it's generally considered that by 1975 Glam Rock was becoming rather passe.All one needs to do is check out the pop charts to verify this...

Also, in regards to all the various "Glam Styles" there are quite a few from the original days, as Deborah been pointed out. I would like to make one correction though. The "Arty/Cabaret/Theatrical Scene" of Glam is one and the same. Roxy, Bowie, Be Bop Deluxe, Cockney Rebel...that's all one area of glam. The "Theatrical" side of Glam has to be credited to all, since all the acts were performing one form of Theatre or Pantomime in some fashion....even if came across a bit crude at times,it was all "razzle dazzle"

There is no denying that the impact Glam Rock has had on other forms of musical trends following it's wake, is rather powerful.Giving it much more muscle and lasting power than anyone could have imagined at the time.Considering, it was thought as very "frivolous" and "juvenile" and more often than not loathed by "serious" rock critics and fans alike! Sadly, it still has many debunkers today and is usually always over-shadowed by punk.

Regardless,Glam has influenced many, from Punk/New Wave acts of the 70's to New Romantics/Goths of the 80's and the Brit -Poppers of the 90's and beyond.I am more than willing and able to debate on this topic for the weary reader.

In conclusion though, when "discussing" Glam-Rock, that period should be kept to the years that it was a relevant musical force [71-76] Anything, after that, is posthumous and to to a certain extent superfluous.

MT-73

Abba
Would Abba count as Glam Rock? Aren't they more of Disco-Pop?


 * I think they count. Certainly their initial success with Waterloo in the UK was achieved by ditching the by-then tired "boom bang-a-bang" type of Eurovision song, and jumping on the Glam bandwagon, which by then ('74) was in full swing. The costumes were lifted straight out of Wizzard's, Glitterband's and T-Rex's wardrobe. Waterloo itself broke the mould for Eurovision at the time, being easily seen as a popped-up version of "See My Baby Jive", etc. Later they jumped on further bandwagons, like Disco, (oddly though, never punk... ;-) but they were definitely part of the mainstream of glam. Other bands did much the same - I think it tends to be forgotten that most musical movements consist of one or two innovators and a far larger bulk of bandwagon jumpers. This isn't to take anything away from Abba - I actually think they were pretty good at what they did - but they were not innovators as far as glam was concerned. Graham 03:24, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

No, they weren't a glam rock act. They had two singles ('Ring Ring' and 'Waterloo') that could be seen as in the glam rock style (especially visually in terms of the clothes and videos) but they never made a whole album in this genre and were only briefly dipping into it - as they did numerous other styles such as West Coast country rock, Continental schlager, musical theatre and, of course, disco. Vauxhall1964 (talk) 01:27, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree Abba weren't a glam rock act, but I think a mention of the very glam-influenced Waterloo winning Eurovision in 74 would be relevant, to demonstrate how glam had gone mainstream and international at that point. --PRL1973 (talk) 10:23, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

ABBA is a truly glam-rock band! See this list of rock-bands: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_glam_rock_artists And fresh BBC movie from 19:20 - ABBA is a truly glam-rock band https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5ik7jp ABBA's famous rock style songs: Waterloo, Ring Ring, So Long, SOS, Get On Carousel, I'am marionette, Does your mother know,Why Did It Have to Be Me?, The Visitors, Like an Angel Passing Through My Room, and many more. Look at "ABBA: The Movie" by Universal 1977. Most of the time at 11's live perfomances in Australia, rock music played. Their soft rock was listened by millions families, elders and children. More people watched an Abba-in-Australia TV special than had viewed the moon landingspecial than had viewed the moon landing. The most popular song SOS is prog pop style (progressive rock+pop) and all their songs seem to always translate well into metal covers. Song "I'am marionette" is rock style and truly metalic according to a lot of opinions, and was included to all their live concerts until 1977 Wembley 1979 live perfomance..There were used so many drums that are not used in pop music, and they are used by rock musicians. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMU4HhqLT-M

They got to love rock even those who were generally indifferent to music and those who had rock associated with drugs, chains and tattoos, but they were stays cleanest. ABBA had done more for rock than The Beatles. jokersm123 (talk) 14:1, 21 Feb 2020 (UTC)

This entire piece is completely incorrect from end to end.
Came here from Homerton

The two bits that are totally making me laugh are:

'[...]a statement of sorts against such acts as Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Yes and Genesis...]

(Hee, hee - ever seen them pix of Peter Gabriel dressed as as a Daffodil? And as if Glam rockers were making a 'statement'. And where are Slade, Gary Glitter and The Sweet?)

Followed later by:

'Glam rock was a major influence upon the late 1970s UK punk rock movement, particularly the Sex Pistols.'

Ho ho ho. But, yes say I, most definitely an influence, though not I think in the way the original writer means. Carts, horses (in the wrong order) and old Mother Hubbard's blooming kitchen sink have been thrown in here, frankly.

My summation - so-called 'glam rock' filled in a hiatus in British musical creativity from about 1973 to 1976 when old-fashioned music hall 'entertainers' tried to fill the gap (where's me washboard?). This counter-revolution was crushed, decisively, in 1976.

(I am not including forward-thinking bands like Roxy Music who were jumping on the bandwagon costume-wise just to get noticed, or great American artists like Lou Reed, who seem to be getting lumped in with 'glam rock' here simply for wearing make-up. Sheesh. And let's not do Bowie. Please.)

Tarquin Binary


 * I see the point you're trying to make, but I also think you're wrong. David Bowie? filling in a hiatus? Get real! Yes there were a lot of bandwagon jumpers (see my earlier comment, above) but there were also true innovators. There is no doubt that glam was as real as it was short-lived, but nevertheless, it was a genuine phenomenon. Punk can also be easily seen as an evolution of glam, though it was also a decisive blow against it. Paradoxical, perhaps, but true. One thing I can agree on though - the article isn't very good as it stands. There's a much better, bigger article in here crying to get out - so feel free to add anything you want, though do bear in mind the rules about NPOV. Graham 03:44, 2 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm being provocative. Bowie was ever mutable, that's why I won't go there. But did I say that glam was not a phenomenon? Look at the two statements I objected to, however. They're wrong. And I was about to add, with regard to an earlier poster's point, no, Jobraith was not huge, he was like unknown?. I've just checked with some folk, I'm of that age - it ain't just me.


 * One fundamental disagreement between us - I do not agree that punk was any kind of evolution out of glam. Punk, in my opinion, was a reaction here against the deadly combination of the heavy metal cock-rock of the time and pomp-rock like (eek) Barclay James Harvest. That's why I feel that glam was neither here nor there.


 * And hey, hang on with the NPOV stuff, I have not altered this article, nor do I intend to, just found it amusing so chimed in with my fivepenny-worth. Why did you up the Defcon Level when I was simply still previewing my reply on the discussion? Oh, just forget about it.


 * Tarquin Binary 04:04, 2 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I think we largely agree then, punk notwithstanding. I'm not enough of an expert on either punk or glam to say with any certainty that punk WAS an evolution - in many ways it's an antithesis - but maybe you're right, it's just irrelevant. Glam was more or less over before punk came to prominence - in fact I seem to remember that 1976 was a very poor year for music in general, it seemed as if nothing at all came along that was very interesting (just like 1996-present really, and it was '77 before I really noticed punk). I've never heard of Jobraith either. Not sure what you're referring to with the defcon remark - I only suggest that if you are inclined to edit the article, you might find it hard to remain NPOV since you obviously have a strong opinion - I didn't mean to say that the opinion is invalid, just that the article needs to be neutral (albeit possibly less interesting as a result). Look, I don't like the article as it stands either, but it's hard to know how to change it. Perhaps a friendly neighbourhood rock journo with knowledge of this period can heklp put it all into perspective? Graham 05:02, 2 September 2005 (UTC)


 * The NPOV was me being paranoid, timing, I watch logs. (Ignore - though I will still add I have not changed, or deleted one word of this article) So...


 * We likely do agree - except that punk is crucial. I do not want to pull rank (because that is quite anti-punk), but I was actually there, as it happens. I was at the Roxy, I saw the Pistols at the Hope & Anchor in Islington when punk was being condemned by a lot of right-on middle-class lefties (like me before I saw the guys!) as 'fascist' (as if, it was left-anarchist if anything, but I helped to persuade most of the brothers and sisters that it wasn't Nazi).


 * OK - one of the direct ancestors of punk was a phenomenon in London called 'Pub Rock'. This included (Google it!) people like Ian Dury (in Kilburn and the High Roads), Doctor Feelgood - and many many other bands. There was also another component from the US that came from the NY Dolls (they were brilliant - but no-one ever said they were glam rock in the UK. I have a feeling that this is where the 'glam'->'punk' thing is coming from, though. I do not want to dis the US here - all decent modern pop music harks back to the Velvets, but glamrock was not a US thang in the 1970s anyway.)


 * Deep breath - I just have a blooming prob with this glamrock ->punkrock lineage. It is so wrong in so many ways it's just not true. What about that wossname bloke that someone said was huge - ha, ha - irrelevant.


 * What can I say - I was blooming well there, mate, and this article is from poxy la-la land. And note that I still have not touched a word of it. I might be an old punk, but I strongly believe in dialogue.


 * Want to talk Clash, the Jam, the Gorillas (No z)? Totally different head :)


 * Tarquin Binary 05:45, 2 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Tarquin if you're still keeping tabs with this all these years later, if you were so thoroughly "THERE" as you seem to think you were then by 1978 you would have been into the original punk version of Adam and the Ants. Live, they were SCREAMINGLY Glam - far more so than the later "Kings Of The Wild Frontier" version in fact.
 * The Bromley Contingent were thoroughly Glam, the Banshees were heavily Glam influenced and even covered 20th Century Boy, Jordan was Glam, Marco Pirroni was and is still Glam and damn proud of it. Marc Bolan struck up a mutal admiration soceity with just about every punk band going in '77.
 * The New Romantic movement was formed by Glam punks who broke away from punk in protest at the takeover of punk by social realist hippies like the Clash and Sham 69. Even those Crass idiots were named after a line from Ziggy Stardust. 95.144.243.247 (talk) 22:21, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

ALL OF YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT THE TIME GLAM ROCK STARTED, LITTLE RICHARD WAS THE FIRST GLAM ROCK AND ROLL KING DURING THE 1950'S, GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE. THIS LITTLE RICHARD HAS HAD SO MUCH OF HIS GREAT MUSIC STOLEN, AND HIS FINANCES TOO. HE IS THE KING OF GLAM AND THE KING OF ROCK AND ROLL.I SHOULD KNOW, I WAS BORN BEFORE ALL OF YOU.GET IT RICHT. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.46.37.179 (talk) 01:24, 18 April 2012 (UTC)