Talk:Glenn Gould/Archive 1

Vocalese
Thanks for "vocalese", which is very interesting. But in this context I had meant "vocalise", which is a classical music term meaning singing without words. I doubt that Gould's singing would merit the term "vocalese"--to me it sounds more like grunting than jazz!

So I propose that the text should read simply "the sound of his voice", which is what I put in the current rendering. --Opus 33 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Opus33 (talk • contribs) 15:13, 8 September 2003 (UTC)

Recorded twice
In the booklet of Gould's CD of the Haydn piano sonatas you can read that he had recorded the sonatas in E-flat major Hob. XVI: 49 and Hob. XVI: 52 twice: for the first time in January 1958 and for the second time in February 1981, so the Goldberg Variations are not the only piece he recorded more than once in the studio. In consideration of this fact I changed the article appropriately. --JensG 22:26, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)
 * I seem to be the source of the "only re-recorded piece" comment. I don't recall any more where that information came from - and in any case it does seem as if you have the goods on it being wrong! If I run across the source again, I'll note it here. Noel 05:08, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)
 * In fact he didn't like to retake a track he recorded (But not so extreme like shostakovich who even declined to rerecord if he made errors while playing. If you listen to his preludes and fugues there are many errors hearable). That was maybe the misunderstanding. -- helohe Revision as of 23:01, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

"Publications"
I believe the authorship of the line starting with "Tim Page" has to be corrected to "Glenn Gould". Then a sideline could show that Tim Page actually is the editor and compiler, not the author. What do you think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wintceas (talk • contribs) 01:47, 24 January 2005 (UTC)

Chopin

 * he was outspoken in his criticism of some of them, apparently not caring for Frederic Chopin, for example.

Any more details about his criticism of Chopin? - Fredrik | talk 21:48, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I've wondered about this too. I found these threads at "F Minor", a mailing list devoted to Glenn:   – Pladask 10:13, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)

Hiya, this talk is just bandied about by pianists, somehow it passes down from teachers, I think the word was 'unconvincing', that in Gould's weaker moments he would play Chopin but found it unconvincing.

Oh well, I see someone remembered this. He also didn't like Mozart and played him rather choppily, like typing, actually lots of kids try to play like Gould because they think he's cool (tormented genius chic) but while it is different it isn't that appealing. I much prefer Vladimir Feltsman's take on the Goldbergs, for example.

Some day Wikipedia should implement a meritocratic system of elitism so that qualified people can write articles and not have them watered down by the mediocre tastes of the self-congratulatory npr crowd. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.254.17.226 (talk • contribs) 07:30-07:41, 20 October 2005 (UTC) and  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.99.244.8 (talk • contribs) 12:48, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

The Glenn Gould Collection
There are currently only hard to find VHS casettes of the "The Glenn Gould Collection" Volumes. Interesting if there will be a reissue on dvd. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Helohe (talk • contribs) 22:55, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

The final frontier?
While reading about the spacecraft Voyager 1, I was pleasantly surprised to find that a recording of Glenn Gould is on the furthest manmade object from Earth! I added a short paragraph mentioning that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.67.93 (talk • contribs) 04:02, 4 July 2005 (UTC)

Thirty-two short films about Glenn Gould
I've moved this comment about Thirty Two Short Films About Glenn Gould to the talk page:
 * which appealed to the popular desire for tormented geniuses (a reliable formula, used in the films Amadeus, Shine, Pi and A Beautiful Mind ).

This comment is about the movie (or perhaps, even the marketing of the movie), and not about Glenn Gould. So if it needs to be included, it ought to go in the article Thirty Two Short Films About Glenn Gould, not in Glenn Gould. Opus33 15:44, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I would tend to agree - and anyway the passage smacked of non-encyclopaedic writing in that it seemed to establish a POV. Fawcett5 17:23, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

The Chair
Seems to me that the chair in the linked photo -while definitely worn through- is not (or doesnt look to be) of the "folding" variety. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.121.121.172 (talk • contribs) 00:50, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Here's a slightly better image: --194.72.110.12 16:13, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * And here: --194.72.110.12 16:15, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Gould as a musician
I've just edited the 'Gould as a musician' section to reflect the fact that overdubbing was, in fact, used in recording a Liszt transcription of Beethoven, not an original Liszt composition (specifically the Finale from Beethoven's Symphony No. 5). Now, given the liner notes to the Glenn Gould Edition album containing this recording - Andrew Kazdin... remembers: "Gould pointed to a place in the Finale and explained that while it was barely imposible to play what Liszt had written, to do so would turn the performance into a don't-complain-if-the-musical-lines-are-a-little-bit-shaky-because-you-should-be-thankful-that-you're-hearing-all-the-notes-in-the- first-place situation. He felt that if he was allowed to use four hands (by electronically overdubbing one performance on top of another), he could make the section more musical. So, in two or three places in the last pages, the astute listener can perhaps detect the results of a four-handed performance." - I don't think it is reasonable to ascribe Gould's use of overdubbing in this instance to his position at the piano. How he sat at the piano would not have influenced his ability to play the final movement of the symphony. I suggest, then, adding a paragraph in the 'Recordings' section outlining his use of technology in his recordings and moving this reference there.

Additionally, the last sentence of 'Gould as a musician' - Despite its shortcomings in Romantic period music, Gould's one-of-a-kind technique yielded excellent results in Baroque period music, especially Bach, (much of it was originally written for the harpsichord) which was the core of his repertoire and the music for which he is remembered. - really needs reworking. I am, I believe, the source of this sentence (or at least part of it). The transparency and clarity of Gould's playing had as much effect, I believe, on his recordings of Brahms, Beethoven, and Mozart as it did on his recordings of Bach. I am therefore going to change this to something like this: ''Despite its shortcomings in some traditional Romantic repertoire, Gould's unique technique yielded singular results in whatever music Gould applied it to. Often, they offered a fresh, sometimes startling, perspective on much-performed music, such as Brahms' Piano Concerto No. 1. Moreover, the incompatibility of his technique with some Romantic pieces was insiginificant to Gould, because these were almost always pieces which his narrow aesthetic rejected.''

Thoughts? --Tulkas 23:21, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's much better than what's there, but I think a) it's questionable to call his technique 'unique' as it was very clearly derived from Guerrero's approach to the piano, b) it's difficult to analyse the 'shortcomings' of his technique when applied to music of which he recorded extremely little (relatively speaking), and c) the overdubbing of certain passages of certain pieces of music does not necessarily demand the conclusion that his technique was inadequate to the music -- surely Glenn would have approached the recording as an art object in its own right, and his attempt to improve the recording by technological means does not necessarily suggest that there was anything 'wrong' with the recording as it was, but only that it was a recording with two hands instead of four. Listening to all of Glenn's recordings together (and without being certain which have overdubs and which do not), his dynamics do not seem to be 'crippled' by his technique. I propose that this entire discussion of his technique's 'shortcomings' can be done away with, and that it is sufficient to describe the technique as objectively as possible. --194.72.110.12 15:45, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Jewish or Protestant
''(See also: The Gold/Gould Myth section below.)

The article states "his Protestant family changed their name to Gould in an attempt to avoid the anti-Semitism of the 1930s", which seems to make no sense whatsoever. I have read sources both stating that Gould was Jewish and also saying that he wasn't Jewish but that people commonly mistake him for a Jew. I will try to find a definitive answer and edit the sentence accordingly, and help with the research is welcome. Yid613 23:37, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I think the sentence is meant to imply that the Gold family, although Protestant, feared their name would be taken to imply they were Jewish, so they changed it. I agree, though, that it's ambiguous, so I've had a go at rephrasing it. Meanwhile, I too don't know whether or not the Gold family was (is) Protestant, nor even whether they did indeed change their name, so I'm also curious to find out! Best wishes, David Kernow 07:29, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Although I am aware that the family changed their name from Gold to Gould, I have never, outside this site, come across any suggestion that the family was anything other than Presbyterian, or that Glenn was ever 'mistaken for' a Jew (whatever that means). Some of Glenn's earliest performances were at his local Presbyterian church in Toronto, where he performed as 'Glen Gold' as late as 1938. Furthermore, Glenn's writing is riddled with references to his protestant upbringing and the 'puritanism' it instilled in him. Given the timing, it seems entirely plausible that the name change resulted from the increased anti-semitism of the time. I'm sure that it would be a mistake to attribute to it any greater significance than this, and I'm sure that Glenn would have found all this intrigue amusing but irrelevant.--86.137.14.158 17:42, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok then. I think the current revision is fine then and makes clear what we have said here. Thank you to both of you. Yid613 | Talk 22:15, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It makes no sense because Gould is as Jewish a name as Gold. Lestrade 00:57, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

They were actually United Church of Canada. See Robert Fulford's Memoir A Lucky Man. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Masalai (talk • contribs) 12:08, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The change from Gold to Gould makes sense, but why from Glen (one n) to Glenn (2 ns)? Is Glen a typo for Glenn? JackofOz 04:17, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Apparently he frequently spelled it both ways -- I've read somewhere (reference, anyone?) that he thought if he went to the second 'n', he wouldn't be able to prevent himself from adding further ones. Perhaps extant examples of his having spelled his name 'Glennn' prove that his fears were founded! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.72.110.12 (talk • contribs) 12:52, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Film
Most of the titles and descriptions I took from Cott's book containing the Rolling Stone interview. (I added the book in the Publications section.) The Gnome 22:17, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Sound samples
I've created a "Media" section with a few sound samples in it. Didn't put anything from the 1955 version of Goldberg Variations because most of the pieces are too short and no 30 second fair use sample is possible. I was also planning to add an excerpt from the radio documentary "The Idea of North", but I've got no idea whether that would qualify as a "music sample" (like the added examples do) and so I can't figure out what kind of license to specify. Jashiin 15:31, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

spine injury
Can anyone verify that new section? --Quadalpha 05:36, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Haven't heard this one before. There was that shoulder injury while visiting Steinway in New York, of course, but surely that's not what's alluded to. Curious to know the source for this. --Max Blaze 07:22, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
 * There's a bit about it in Friedrich's book in Chapter 2 near the middle (a snippet of an interview with Gould's father) but nothing there about prescription drugs... hmmm. --Monk127 07:31, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Friedrich's book mentions possible spine injury Gould suffered as a child.--83.145.240.253 09:48, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

photo caption
I removed "in rehearsal" from the caption of the first photo. It was very likely just a quick photo-op in overcoat to appeal to those who like to look at eccentricity, a game Gould seemed to like to play. I know I've read something to this effect about this photo... just can't remember where at the moment. --Monk127 19:50, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Queen Elizabeth II
I am reverting the edit about QEII for the following reasons:
 * This tape was newsworthy when found in 2002; it isn't now.
 * Many studio performances of Gould are available, some on VHS that anyone can buy. This particular CBC studio performance isn't all that "special", is not notable in the life of Gould, and isn't even a performance of a complete work.
 * Glenn Gould, his life and his work, have little to do with Queen Elizabeth II and an encyclopedia article should reflect this.
 * The edit is in an inappropriate place in the article with an inappropriate level of heading.
 * My previous edit, which put a link to the CBC report is sufficient. Monk127 01:30, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a news source.
 * The Queen's visit is mentioned because it's how the Gould footage was discovered.
 * Please suggest a better heading, or move the information to a more appropriate location, instead of simply deleting it.
 * Your self-deemed appropriate edit is far from being so. Gould rarely gave live performances. The discovery of footage of him performing live, early in his career, is therefore important, and deserves mention. Deleting relevant information from articles is generally called vandalism. --gbambino 02:15, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi,
 * I choose not to revert your idiotic monarchist vandalism again.
 * For the record, I disagree with your edit and my reasons are above. The tape in question is a CBC studio performance, not "live" as you suggest. I presume you mean something to the effect of "in concert". But hey, that's very good that you know something about Gould.
 * To the Queen, Monk127 02:36, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Cheerful.
 * If you watch the actual CBC video about the discovery of the Gould footage, you'll clearly hear them refer to it as a "live performance." The discovery of the footage is linked to a visit by the Queen. If that kindles some kind of anti-monarchy rage you harbour, well, hey, them's the breaks.
 * But thanks for dealing with it, and graciously allowing me to edit what you clearly feel to be your personal Gould article. You're a big man, indeed. --gbambino 02:54, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

The Gold/Gould Myth
''(See also: Jewish or Protestant section above.)

The article included a claim that "Gould was born Glen Gold" and that his family "changed its name ... fearing that it would otherwise be mistaken as Jewish ..." This kind of speculation shows up all too often in many places (,, are just a few), even in Peter Ostwald's psychoanalytic quasi-biography of Gould.

There was no such name change. In fact, Glenn Gould's parents were Russell Herbert ("Bert") Gould and Florence ("Flora") Emma Grieg Gould, Presbyterians of Scottish extraction. I have corrected the paragraph accordingly, with an embedded comment referring to this talk page section. Reference : Otto Friedrich, Glenn Gould: A Life and Variations (Vintage Books, a division of Random House, New York, 1989), pp. 13-14. Friedrich provided considerable detail; here is just a scrap: "Peter Grieg, one of thirteen children of a Scottish farmer, emigrated to Canada in the mid-nineteenth century. He and his wife, Emma, had ten children, one of whom was Charles Holman Greig, who married Mary Catherine Flett, whose father, a carpenter from the Orkneys, died in a fall from the roof of the Bank of Montreal. One of their children, Florence, duly met and married Russell Herbert Gould, whose father's business card said: 'Thomas G. Gould, Fur Salon, Designers and Manufacturers of Quality Fur Garments.' Bert Gould inherited and managed that prosperous fur business. His wife was forty-two when their only son was born. But even before he was born, according to her neice, Jessie Grieg, 'she did play music all the time she was carrying Glenn, with the hope that he was going to be a classical pianist.' [emphasis added]"

In the context of the apparent popularity of the belief in the mythical Gold/Gould name change, it should be noted that if antisemitism was a problem the name Gould was itself quite enough to attract it—compare similar but more openly hostile nineteenth century speculation remarked upon in the Jay Gould article: "Contrary to the assumptions of Henry Ford and Henry Adams, who presumed Gould to be a Jew, Gould's father was of British colonial ancestry, and his mother of Scottish ancestry .... Anti-semitism in connection with Gould's name motivated some of this hostility, even though he was born a Presbyterian and married an Episcopalian. [emphasis added]"

In addition to how problematic and harmful speculation can be, and how peculiarly inappropriate it is in an encyclopedia article, the Presbyterian/Scottish connection has gone unnoticed here as well. Of the many names on the list of those with the surname Gould, I would not be surprised if far more than half have Scots/British ancestral roots. Athaenara ✉ 00:15, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, your comments certainly sound authoritative! Why do you privilege Friedrich's narrative over Bazzana's?  His biography is quite clear on this point: "[Glenn's] birth certificate gave his name as 'Gold, Glenn Herbert.'  The family name had always been Gold, and when his grandfather...established the family business in 1913, he gave it the name 'Gold Standard Furs' (pun presumably intended).  All of the documents through 1938 that survive among Gould's papers give his surname as 'Gold,' but beginning at least as early as 1939 the family name was almost always printed as 'Gould' in newspapers, programs, and other sources; the last confirmed publication of 'Gold' is in the program for a church supper and concert on October 27, 1940." (Bazzana, Wondrous Strange, 24).
 * Now, I don't want to stand in the way of your sanctimoniousness, but I believe that documentary evidence weighs in as the only proof of historical fact. Your quotation from Friedrich offers no documentary evidence -- only an undated business card.
 * Bazzana goes on to discuss the regrettable climate of increasing xenophobia that apparently prevailed in Toronto at the time, and the influence this may have had on the (documented!) name change, but any thoughtful person can surmise from the dates (1939-40) that this may have been the case.
 * In any event, this entire discussion is much less "problematic and harmful" (whatever that means) than inane and boring. The information is anecdotal, and of mild and passing interest, but really, WHO CARES one way or the other? Max Blaze 00:33, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, I do, for one. Regardless of the motivation for the change, if it is indeed true that the name was changed, this is exactly the sort of detail that an encyclopedia should be recording.  The experts seem to be disagreeing, but I wait with baited breath for the day when the truth - whatever it is - can finally be revealed.  JackofOz 10:20, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * My understanding is that various sources confirm the parent's name change although the official record is 'missing'. I believe that there is no evidence to suggest a motivation, although there are the above-mentioned speculations. I believe that the article should make some mention of this issue, but restricting itself as far as possible to well-sourced statements of fact, and avoiding repeating unsubstantiated speculations (or clearly noting them as such).  If it is felt to be a contentious issue then we do not need to mention it in the infobox or lead section, and could simply include a footnote to the sentence about his birth, summarizing the evidence. Stumps 02:59, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I made a few footnotes documenting both sides of the issue. :)--Wormsie 14:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Nice work ... I'll see if I can dig up an other evidence one way or the other ... I seem to remember some reference to the actual birth certificate. Stumps 23:30, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, good use of footnotes. --Ronz 23:53, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

EL to parody site
I don't see how the Glenn Gould De-Vocalizer 2000 external link is appropriate per WP:EL. I've marked it as (Parody) while we discuss it. --Ronz 16:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

no practice
The article states: "Gould maintained that he never practised the piano."

I believe he's downright lying: it's a myth. Franz Liszt, the true first modern piano virtuoso used to play scales and arpeggios 12 hours a day. 201.40.20.130 16:57, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * That doesn't mean that Gould did. You can argue one way or another over who is better, but they're still different pianists, and therefore have different ways of working. I believe Gould's claim. --DearPrudence 20:10, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * No pianist ever achieves virtuosism without long practicing sessions. You can read all literature you want about past virtuosos and prodigies like Mozart, Beethoven, Liszt etc. The claim is ridiculous and I take it to mean he was more than just "eccentric". Or perhaps he indeed didn't practice and that's why was concerned more with less virtuosistic music by Bach rather than the more demanding romantic piano repertoire. Easy to dismiss playing Chopin or Liszt on the basis of not liking them... 200.193.250.50 08:18, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I still believe him, but I even if you don't, I think that the article puts it quite well - it says that he claimed he never practised, which is true; whether he actually did or not is uncertain, but it cannot be proven either way, and the article doesn't claim to. If the article said outright that he never practised, I might side with you simply because there's no way of knowing whether he did or not for sure; as it is written now, it leaves room for you to make up your own mind. --DearPrudence 16:49, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Somebody removed the "claimed"-bit. When I get my hands again on one book on Gould, I'll try to add some quotations from other people about this, I remember reading that for example while in Russia he used to practice quite a lot. Also, it is reported that in his childhood he used to practice until the late hours of the day.--Wormsie 19:33, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * "Less virtuosic music by Bach" -- surely we're not meant to take this comment seriously. Gould's technical facility at the keyboard was once questioned by one imprudent critic, who was immediately and roundly derided. There can't be anyone out there with ANY familiarity with Gould's recordings who would seriously make such a suggestion -- even leaving aside the astoundingly ill-informed prejudice against Bach's music that such a comment reveals. Even the most ill-disposed toward Gould's recordings could not make such a suggestion except on the basis of supreme ignorance. 194.176.201.10 10:59, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you for pointing that out. --DearPrudence 16:26, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I think it is a myth that Liszt played scales 12 hours a day. SG March 9 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.48.9.22 (talk) 06:21, 10 March 2009 (UTC) Many musicians practice in their mind - no need to actually play/practice new works once you get the technique down. Lexlex (talk) 15:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Gould, savory only in Bach?

 * This is a higly subjective personal take on Gould. I beg pardon, but I felt the need for such a presentation.*

It's been about a year since I've first accessed this article. At that time, I was fresh in to Gould and was compelled by this article to believe that he was good only in Baroque repertoire. However, after twelve months of listening, I must say that the assertion is complete nonsense! His recordings of Brahms, Scriabin, Bizet, and Ravel have garnered critical acclaim and people should definitely take a dose of such recordings before attempting to criticize Gould. An even more compelling evidence of his propensity at standard, virtuosic repertoire would be his recording of the complete Beethoven concertos. Not once have I felt that his posture hindered him from producing a more full sound from the piano compared with other acknowledged Beethoven specialists such as Brendel or Serkin, not to mention that he DOES NOT always play in choppy portamento, as this article might lead you to believe. Glenn Gould's tone is actually amazingly sumptuous once you obtain the state of mind to actually appreciate how "romantic" he is. This is evident not only in recordings of Romantic repertoire, but also in Gould's takes of Baroque music. I seriously think this article, in an attempt to be neutral, has actually become negatively prejudiced towards Gould's versatility as a pianist.61.82.69.94 16:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Not to mention 20th-century music. His tries at Wagner are beautiful to my untrained ear as well . . . -FM (talk) 04:25, 15 June 2009 (UTC)FM

http://www.unpronounceable.com
I removed this as spam, mistakenly thinking it was added by the same editor that's added it many, many times before. My apologies. --Ronz 16:36, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Playing Style
No mention of the fact he doesn't use much (if any) pedal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.21.176.141 (talk • contribs) 00:50, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

The Brahms Incident
The Bernstein/Brahms incident would certainly be worth recounting...if someone can accurately capture it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.21.176.141 (talk • contribs) 00:50, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've found a transcription of Lenny's remarks on the web. I happened to tape this broadcast from radio some time ago, and I checked and slightly edited the text in a few places. It had a few words in all caps for stress, which I though was inappropriate for Wikipedia. It had one spelling error ("descrepencies" for discrepancies). -- JackofOz 06:09, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Great of you to have found it, it's also available as an audio file in the archive page of one of the links. However, quoting the whole of the speech is hardly in order (it's place might be in Wikiquote), and in any case this incident would be worth mentioning perhaps in the "eccentricies"-section or the section about his playing.--Wormsie 15:59, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my edit was kind of destructive. :/ I tried to move it somewhere else with cuts, but couldn't. Somebody else, please try. :) I did move it to Wikiquote.--Wormsie 16:50, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Practice in general
If someone knows how to to incorporate this information to the article, please do so :) The bit about practiving without hearing what you are playing is interesting and actually supports the viewpoint that Gould thought it was more useful to practice in your head.--Wormsie 19:33, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not ready to rule out Gould's claim, though he probably exaggerated it. Jean-Pierre Rampal said he never practiced, and of course Paganini let on that he had help from the Dark Side. The whole thing reminds me of a Calvin & Hobbes strip:

CALVIN: What are you doing?

SUSIE: Studying for the test tomorrow.

CALVIN: But I thought you were smart.

71.187.42.174 23:14, 12 August 2007 (UTC) Archer, 12 August 2007


 * This debate about whether or not Glenn practiced seems silly in the extreme. Of course he practiced! What, he just walked out on stage having run through the music once? Give me a break! It's true that in his later years he CLAIMED to have given up practicing -- if you accept that the many, many recordings he made of each piece before he was happy with it DIDN'T COUNT as practicing -- but seeing as you can watch video of him practicing (numerous examples on The Glenn Gould Collection tapes) AND that he often referred to having disliked the 'many months of preparation' one had to do for a concert tour, I think we can confirm that like any other human being, he practiced. OK??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.53.111.200 (talk) 13:40, August 30, 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, getting a quote from an actual book would be in order, and not just Gould's own words. For example, "Life and Variations", which is the one I read, had excerpts of Gould's diaries where he himself discusses pieces he has played. I do believe, however, that it is very possible Gould had his own way of practicing and he definitely was musically very intelligent. Also, it is possible to just learn pieces by reading the sheet music or going through the piece in your head, at least to an extent, but I'd find it very improbable that practicing a piece would consist of nothing but using your imagination for the excercise.--Wormsie 18:45, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Unhealthy diet
Gould, a bachelor, fed himself a continuous diet of fried eggs. He died prematurely. Was there a causal connection?Lestrade 12:37, 10 September 2007 (UTC)Lestrade


 * I think his use of mixed medication contributed more to the fact, but it must have been one factor.--Wormsie 20:37, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Details of the paper by Maloney?
This section about Glenn Gould mentions a paper by Dr Tim Maloney in which he presented the idea that Gould had Asperger syndrome, but I can't find any publication details or obvious link to this paper. It strikes me as very odd that an article that is supposed to be at a scholarly standard gives no citation to an important source that is discussed. I can't even find what year or in what journal this paper was supposedly published. Have I overlooked something here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.59.15.48 (talk) 09:34, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You are right that there should be a proper citation ... one source which also does not pin down where the paper was published is Toronto's "Globe and Mail" of 1 Feb 2000. See Stumps 07:35, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The correct citation for the paper ... collected in a book on disability in music .. has been added as a footnote to the article. Stumps 04:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

"Clockwise motion associated with left-handedness"
This footnote has irked me for quite some time. When I play the piano, I sometimes sway in a clockwise motion - however, I am right-handed. We can't just say "clockwise motion is associated with left-handedness" without a source (preferably a doctor). The other option is to directly quote someone who has said that about Gould, but just by itself the claim is purely meaningless speculation and yet another case of exaggerating Gould's eccentric behaviour just for the sake of making him seem stranger and creating a sensation. No offence to the person who added that piece of information, but I'd like to know what his sources were.--Wormsie 12:35, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * As nobody has commented on this, I will edit the article as I see fit.--Wormsie 11:17, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Cornelia Foss - source?
There is a story under the Relationships section that talks about Cornelia Foss and the affair she had with Gould. I've never read the article - could someone please cite it properly? I'm not doubting the validity of the information, but at the moment it is difficult to verify because it's only cited as coming from an August 25, 2007 article in the Toronto Star. A proper citation (templates here) would be appreciated.

Thanks! --DearPrudence 21:54, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Mnemonic memory?
Given the paragraph's focus on his ability to mentally practice a physical activity, it seems to me the person who typed the sentence "Gould's large repertoire also demonstrated this natural mnemonic gift." might have meant "Gould's large repertoire also demonstrated this gift of kinesthetic memory." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.168.0.24 (talk) 03:48, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I would suggest that "mnemonic" and its older form, "mnemotechnic," have a Renaissance feel that Gould would have been drawn to, i.e., Giordano Bruno, etc. And we know Gould was well read. -FM (talk) 04:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)FM

Asperger syndrome
Surely there should at least be a tentative mention that he probably had Asperger Syndrome. After all, he hated social functions, enjoyed sameness (the chair), didn't like being touched, was obsessive, and was sensitive to temperature (always wearing heavy warm clothes to avoid coldness). It would be great if someone could find a reference in which an expert asserts that Gould may have had AS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.117.23.107 (talk) 12:48, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, there is a tentative mention of it, in the section "Health". But to discuss the matter itself, I dont think it's necessary to assume that he had Aspergers - although he had a large array of mental and physical problems, for sure. He apparently actually was physically very sensitive and had problems with blood circulation, hence the colds. He didn't like being touched because he was afraid of germs - this is a fear he inherited from his parents. He was certainly obsessive and anxious, but those aren't necessarily symptoms of Aspergers. I attribute him using the same chair to the fact that first of all his piano techique required a very low chair, and of course a pianist prefers to use an instrument he knows. Second of all he did play on other chairs (there are photos of that happening), the claim that he used nothing but it are just a part of the Gould-myth that he himself probably consciously helped create.--Wormsie (talk) 15:58, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Wormsie. While I myself suspect that he did have Asperger's, it's still never been proven. Anyway, there already is a tentative mention of the possibility under the "Health" section. --DearPrudence (talk) 03:20, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it can't be proven, though there has been some speclation about it in Gould's biographies. To me the whole "Gould had aspergers"-theory sounds like wanting to oversimplify his personality to a blunt "oh, he was strange because he had aspergers", like all we ever needed to know of him was that he had aspergers. Such judgements are potentially very dehumanizing to a person. Of course this is an encyclopedia, and we deal with facts, not feelings, but even so, describing on somebody's personality solely on the basis of his assumed mental condition is, besides disrespectful, inaccurate.--Wormsie (talk) 23:33, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. --DearPrudence (talk) 00:12, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 'His biographer Peter Ostwald, a psychiatrist, while insisting that Gould did not fit any one psychological or medical category, noted that some of his childhood and adolescent behaviour resembled Asperger's syndrome [...] the subject has since been pursued by Timothy Maloney, who shared his detailed research with me; his findings have not yet been published. So far I have not been persuaded that such a diagnosis really fits the biographical facts or is necessary for making sense of Gould. - Bazzana, 2003, p.5 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.137.30.238 (talk) 12:50, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

RE: Lost Recording
It states in the article that a lost recording was discovered of Gould performing a Bach Piano Concerto. I'm pretty sure Bach never wrote any piano concertos. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Halfabeet (talk • contribs) 21:31, 2 February 2008 (UTC)


 * He did, actually! [ http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Complete-Piano-Concertos-Vol/dp/B0000013R8 Here] is a volume of them on Amazon. Here is Gould playing one of them. --DearPrudence (talk) 06:14, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Bach didn't write anything that he called a piano concerto: the fortepiano barely existed at the time he was writing those concertos. (It did exist, but was still in the early stages of development and not widely used. Bach seems to have encountered them at around the same time as writing his last keyboard concertos, and not been very impressed.) I think he actually called them all harpsichord concertos, but haven't been able to check this. (Oh, and I think they're all arrangements of other works -- concertos for other instruments, pieces for harpsichord(s) without orchestra, that sort of thing.) Gareth McCaughan (talk) 12:33, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You are right on both counts, assuming the wikipedia page on this subject (Harpsichord concertos (J. S. Bach)) is correct. However, although it seems Bach did call them harpsichord concertos, I think it should be acceptable to call them keyboard concertos in this article; otherwise, there might be some confusion as to the instrument on which Gould played them. JeanneShade (talk) 01:54, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I propose the phrase to be changed to "keyboard concerto". Although recordings quite commonly use a piano to play his keyboard works (just as a guitar is often used in recordings of his lute works), the concerto would not have been written for the piano and it is inaccurate to imply that it was. Halfabeet (talk) 14:42, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

BBC documentary, February 2008
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/archivehour/pip/c99de/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 (talk) 20:18, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Not athletic
'Though not athletic, Gould was a sociable young man.' Why would not being athletic stop someone being sociable?! Tpacw (talk) 18:07, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Though not obese, Gould would sometimes write with ball–point pens.Lestrade (talk) 14:23, 21 January 2009 (UTC)Lestrade

Chronic prostatitis
I can't find any evidence he had chronic prostatitis in the linked article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.208.74.185 (talk) 11:45, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Other vocalizers
Yesterday (i.e., 2008-11-01), someone at 86.138.6.116 changed the statement that Keith Jarrett also vocalizes while playing the piano to say that Oscar Peterson did. It appears to be true, and widely remarked, that Jarrett does this; perhaps Peterson did too, but he doesn't appear to be particularly noted for doing so. 86.138.6.116 appears to have made no other edits ever. Being a cynical sort, I suspect hit-and-run vandalism, and have undone the edit (and wikilinked Jarrett while I'm at it) for the sake of safety :-). If someone familiar with Gould's, Jarrett's and Peterson's playing reckons that Gould's vocalizations are more Petersonic than Jarrettoid, then fair enough... Gareth McCaughan (talk) 23:25, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 14:51, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

The Gold/Gould Name Change
The article included a claim that "Gould was born Glen Gold" and that his family "changed its name ... fearing that it would otherwise be mistaken as Jewish ..." This kind of speculation shows up all too often in many places (,, are just a few), even in Peter Ostwald's psychoanalytic quasi-biography of Gould.

There was no such name change. In fact, Glenn Gould's parents were Russell Herbert ("Bert") Gould and Florence ("Flora") Emma Greig Gould, Presbyterians of Scottish extraction. I have corrected the paragraph accordingly, with an embedded comment referring to this talk page section. Reference : Otto Friedrich, Glenn Gould: A Life and Variations (Vintage Books, a division of Random House, New York, 1989), pp. 13-14. Friedrich provided considerable detail; here is just a scrap: "Peter Greig, one of thirteen children of a Scottish farmer, emigrated to Canada in the mid-nineteenth century. He and his wife, Emma, had ten children, one of whom was Charles Holman Greig, who married Mary Catherine Flett, whose father, a carpenter from the Orkneys, died in a fall from the roof of the Bank of Montreal. One of their children, Florence, duly met and married Russell Herbert Gould, whose father's business card said: 'Thomas G. Gould, Fur Salon, Designers and Manufacturers of Quality Fur Garments.' Bert Gould inherited and managed that prosperous fur business. His wife was forty-two when their only son was born. But even before he was born, according to her niece, Jessie Greig, 'she did play music all the time she was carrying Glenn, with the hope that he was going to be a classical pianist.' [emphasis added]"

BTW, the article gives Gould's mother's maiden name as "Grieg"; it should be "Greig". Kevin Bazzana — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.54.32.120 (talk) 17:37, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

In the context of the apparent popularity of the belief in the mythical Gold/Gould name change, it should be noted that if antisemitism was a problem the name Gould was itself quite enough to attract it — compare similar but more openly hostile nineteenth century speculation remarked upon in the Jay Gould article: "Contrary to the assumptions of Henry Ford and Henry Adams, who presumed Gould to be a Jew, Gould's father was of British colonial ancestry, and his mother of Scottish ancestry .... Anti-semitism in connection with Gould's name motivated some of this hostility, even though he was born a Presbyterian and married an Episcopalian. [emphasis added]"

In addition to how problematic and harmful speculation can be, and how peculiarly inappropriate it is in an encyclopedia article, the Presbyterian/Scottish connection has gone unnoticed here as well. Of the many names on the list of those with the surname Gould, I would not be surprised if far more than half have Scots/British ancestral roots. Athaenara ✉ 00:15, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, your comments certainly sound authoritative! Why do you privilege Friedrich's narrative over Bazzana's? His biography is quite clear on this point: "[Glenn's] birth certificate gave his name as 'Gold, Glenn Herbert.' The family name had always been Gold, and when his grandfather...established the family business in 1913, he gave it the name 'Gold Standard Furs' (pun presumably intended). All of the documents through 1938 that survive among Gould's papers give his surname as 'Gold,' but beginning at least as early as 1939 the family name was almost always printed as 'Gould' in newspapers, programs, and other sources; the last confirmed publication of 'Gold' is in the program for a church supper and concert on October 27, 1940." (Bazzana, Wondrous Strange, 24).


 * Now, I don't want to stand in the way of your sanctimoniousness, but I believe that documentary evidence weighs in as the only proof of historical fact. Your quotation from Friedrich offers no documentary evidence -- only an undated business card.


 * Bazzana goes on to discuss the regrettable climate of increasing xenophobia that apparently prevailed in Toronto at the time, and the influence this may have had on the (documented!) name change, but any thoughtful person can surmise from the dates (1939-40) that this may have been the case.


 * In any event, this entire discussion is much less "problematic and harmful" (whatever that means) than inane and boring. The information is anecdotal, and of mild and passing interest, but really, WHO CARES one way or the other? Max Blaze 00:33, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, I do, for one. Regardless of the motivation for the change, if it is indeed true that the name was changed, this is exactly the sort of detail that an encyclopedia should be recording. The experts seem to be disagreeing, but I wait with baited breath for the day when the truth - whatever it is - can finally be revealed. JackofOz 10:20, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


 * My understanding is that various sources confirm the parent's name change although the official record is 'missing'. I believe that there is no evidence to suggest a motivation, although there are the above-mentioned speculations. I believe that the article should make some mention of this issue, but restricting itself as far as possible to well-sourced statements of fact, and avoiding repeating unsubstantiated speculations (or clearly noting them as such). If it is felt to be a contentious issue then we do not need to mention it in the infobox or lead section, and could simply include a footnote to the sentence about his birth, summarizing the evidence. Stumps 02:59, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I made a few footnotes documenting both sides of the issue. :)--Wormsie 14:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Nice work ... I'll see if I can dig up an other evidence one way or the other ... I seem to remember some reference to the actual birth certificate. Stumps 23:30, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, good use of footnotes. --Ronz 23:53, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Revisited
Let me preface this by pointing out: it's not a myth, it's true. I have altered the article and provided full references from Bazzana, who has researched the subject properly. For a full discussion, may I point you towards: 'Wondrous Strange: The Life and Art of Glenn Gould', by Kevin Bazzana, p.24-28. 13:16, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't know anything about whether the name change is true, but if the article is going to mention it, then it should at least mention what the name was changed from. Right now it just says it was changed to avoid association with the name 'Gold'. Inserting the words 'from Gold' would help clarify the paragraph, and not require the reader to read later in the sentence to understand the earlier part. In other words, it'd be better writing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.112.21.41 (talk) 06:01, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree entirely. First, we're saying he was born to Bert and Florence Gould in 1932.  Then, we're saying they changed their name to Gould in 1939 - but from what, we're not told.  Later still, there's a reference to the name Gold, but nothing that explicitly says they were ever called Gold.  It's a mish-mash.  --  JackofOz (talk) 09:07, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I think you make a good point JackofOz. Bazzana, which I have a copy of, has researched the documentation which shows that Gould's parents were married as Herbert and Florrie Gold, subsequently, either informally or formally, changed to Gould. The paternal ancestry is Gold. Short of visiting the Canadian archives ourselves and personally viewing the documents, we have to accept that Bazzana, as a respected author and researcher is accurate. It looks as if Friedrich has not researched this issue as deeply as Bazzana. Would it be a solution to change Gould to Gold in the first sentence? That's all that's needed since the unsigned editor(26 February 2009) above has already provided several footnotes to Bazzana. Welham66 (talk) 04:18, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Further to the above, I mean changing Herbert and Florrie Gould to Herbert and Florrie Gold, not the first reference to Glenn Gould in the main body of the article. Welham66 (talk) 04:27, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

I have the papers to show the name change from Thomas Gold to Thomas Gould.......write to louise@gmail.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.88.168.141 (talk) 23:05, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

The Romantics
The author's statement that "After his adolescence, Gould rejected most of the standard Romantic piano literature including Liszt, Schumann, and Chopin" is not really accurate. He did record Chopin's Sonata in B minor Op. 58, as well as several long Liszt-Beethoven pieces. If he hadn't approved of the Liszt versions of Beethoven, I'm sure he would have written his own transcriptions to record. He also transcribed and recorded several Wagner pieces.70.182.156.197 (talk) 22:26, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * How so? "Most" - which technically means 51% - Gould recorded ONE piece by your statement - out of hundreds of Romantic piano compositions.  Also, the article statement reflects STANDARD - Liszt's Beethoven transcriptions are hardly standard - they were just oddities that are very rarely recorded, let alone performed in concert. Gould just didn't fit in with the Romantics - sample his gawdawful version of Brahms' 1st piano concerto with Bernstein as an example.  A couple of exceptions to his concentration on Baroque and a few of the 20th Century Modernists does not violate what the article states. 98.67.15.53 (talk) 10:31, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Silence of the Lambs
I removed the part that claims Gould's Goldberg Variations appears in the Film Silence of the Lambs. The film credits Jerry Zimmerman with the performance. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102926/soundtrack

JunblaA 8:38, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I'm not sure about that. People associated with the film didn't add that information in, IMDb users did. Also, compare Google hits for "Silence of the Lambs" with "Jerry Zimmerman against a search with "Glenn Gould" . I'm going to replace the information in the article for the moment until it is conclusively proven that it was Zimmerman and not Gould. At the moment things seem to point to Gould. --DearPrudence (talk) 00:17, 19 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Have you listened to Gould's version, and the film version as well? They're not the same. The film version's Aria is clearly played at a faster tempo, and repeated, which Gould did not do. Gould comes up more, because he is explicitly mentioned in the book, and clearly a more popular pianist.


 * This site: http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1800367822/cast also lists Zimmerman. I'm not sure what is going to "conclusively prove" that it was not Gould. Does the writer of this article have evidence that it was Gould, other than quantity of Google hits? I have IMDb and Yahoo Movies supporting me here.
 * JunblaA 3:45, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I have to agree with JunblaA. Having listened closely to the SOTL version I'm quite convinced it's not Gould. The ornamentation is not in Gould's style either. Compare it to the much slower tempo Hannibal version where you can hear Gould humming. Someone else put the Zimmerman claim back in the other day and in editing that section I left it in. The balance of evidence is I think 99% not Gould so I think it reasonable Zimmerman stays in until proven otherwise. Welham66 (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Well Gould recorded the Variations twice, the later version being much slower than the first, so we'd need a more expert opinion . . . -FM (talk) 04:23, 15 June 2009 (UTC)FM


 * I am intimately acquainted with both Gould recordings and with excerpt heard in SOTL - which is definitely not Gould. I believe the confusion arises from the SOTL novel, in which Hannibal Lecter is in a hotel room after his escape, listening to Gould play the Goldberg Variations.  I imagine getting the rights for Gould's recording for the film would have been expensive, and it was probably cheaper to hire a pianist to play them.THD3 (talk) 18:04, 16 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The movie itself credits Jerry Zimmerman. Hattrem (talk) 20:10, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Composer project review
I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles. This is a nice article; it gives what is probably an appropriate amount of space to Gould's composing. I do have some other issues with the article; they are in my review on the comments page. Questions and comments should be left here or on my talk page.  Magic ♪piano 16:08, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Changes to Lead Section
I've re-written and enlarged the Lead section, partly in response to the quality report on the article which said the lead section was too short for an article of this size. I'm assuming it's OK not to document everything in the Lead on the assumption the body of the article discusses and documents what's in the lead. I can add some refs. if anyone thinks they're needed. (Actually, I think we might need a reference for Gould's plans to quit the piano - I'm not sure if that's documented in the article or not - will check). Of course if any editors object to and want to change the new emphases in the lead, please discuss. Welham66 (talk) 05:33, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * This article has really improved over the last few months. Kudos to whoever improved it--you I think! Outriggr (talk) 01:59, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the kudos, Outriggr! I don't think I deserve all of it. A lot of other editors, including yourself, have made valuable contributions. I would welcome your views on whether you think the article is ready for another assessment upgrade. Regards Welham66 (talk) 03:22, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Gould's chair
In the section 'Gould as a pianist', it says:

When Gould was around ten years old, he injured his back as a result of a fall from a boat ramp on the shore of Lake Simcoe.[18] This incident is almost certainly not related to his father's subsequent construction for him of an adjustable-height chair, which he used for the rest of his life.

Emphasis mine. Is this statement correct? If so, it is very oddly phrased. 129.173.159.195 (talk) 16:16, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the statement is correct. It is very clear from Friedrich that the chair was designed to enable Gould to sit at a certain height in relation to the keyboard, not because of a back injury. Earlier versions of the article, I recall, incorrectly linked the back injury and the chair, a misconception which the 'statement' corrects, but probably doesn't need to bother with at all. If you want to have a go at improving the phrasing, please go ahead. Welham66 (talk) 07:02, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Tolerance
Was Gould forgiving of audience members who coughed?Lestrade (talk) 05:57, 2 December 2009 (UTC)Lestrade

Top 10 Pianists of All Time
I don't think this should be in the list of external links as it is just some guy's website and despite what he thinks of himself and his reasons for the choices he's made, the ranking is arbitrary and meaningless. He spends most of his time lamely attempting to insult the reader, rather than just letting his words stand on their own merit. 67.71.143.169 (talk) 22:30, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Citation style
The citation style of this article is rather inconsistent. For instance, we have

Bazzana (2003), p. 21 ref, Ostwald 1997, p. 71 ref, and Friedrich, 1990, p. 147 ref

as three different short-form styles of citing books. It might be a good idea at some point to go through them all and match them to a single style (perhaps one with bells and whistles). 86.41.64.98 (talk) 13:51, 30 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree, but I think this falls under WP:SOFIXIT. I was planning to do it myself sometime. The years for short-form citations are not necessary, as none of the authors have more than one work referenced. May I suggest the common "Bazzana, 21" format. Riggr Mortis (talk) 23:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I had begun making the refs uniform as "Bazzana (2003), p. 229", but stopped when I got too busy. Also was dragging most of the refs to notes and then ref'ing the notes (if you know what I mean). I just feel there's a great deal of original research and synthesis in this article, so I'm unsure if everything here should be kept... I'll work on this page later this week if I can find the time. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  talk //  contribs 18:51, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Let me know if you are referring to what I've recently added. I am all for attributed synthetic elements -- they are what make a biography interesting, especially Gould's, thus my focus -- but they are not the same as synthesis. Even without regard to what I've added, I don't see anything that concerns me in the article other than, obviously, degree of completeness/due weight. Riggr Mortis (talk) 22:53, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIX THIS APPARENT ERROR...
IN NOTE 15: "The claim that Gould "never should hands" is exaggerated." SEEMS TO ME TO BE PERHAPS: "never shook hands" ... but I don't know how to fix it... Anyone can help me? 83.50.183.245 (talk) 11:20, 30 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for bringing it to our attention. I've corrected it now.  --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   11:40, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Discography?
There is no list of Gould's recordings in this article. Is that intentional? --Thomas B (talk) 09:31, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Long discographies are generally given their own article, at least when the artist is prominent. For one thing, long lists don't fit well with prose. You'd create Discography of Glenn Gould and then add a {{main|Discography of Glenn Gould]] template at the top of a relevant section in the Gould article. That's something I would like to see. The list could be developed well with review commentary on each album, etc. Riggr Mortis (talk) 00:21, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

{{Clear}}

Glenn Gould's politics
Glenn Gould had political views. He decried capitalism and was a proponent of socialism, can we include this in his bio? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.9.49.196 (talk) 01:18, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Organ recordings
In the article it is written, that his only organ recordings, were of bachs art of fugue. I think this is not true. I have a recording (it is included on the schoenberg disc of the glenn gould original jacket collection) of him playing Schoenberg: Variations on a Recitative, Op. 40 on organ. There is also a recording availabe of glenn gould playing Bach's St. Annes fugue --helohe (talk)  20:55, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Changing The Main Photo
I disagree with using a picture of a statue as Glenn Gould;s main picture instead of a photography of the real person, I doubt the Glenn Gould foundation would oppose to use a real picture of him. There is plenty to choose from; a picture of a younger Gould with his more vigorous style at the piano during his 24 to early 30's when he did a great bulk of his work and he gained so much notoriety for his unique style would better show the real Gould. Please bear in mind that some of the excentricities have been more recently debulked as media tools or as his own advertisement. So showing him walking with a big scarf and gloves does not really tell us much. I think the photograph of the statue would be best placed towards the end when they talk about his legacyGybem (talk) 10:04, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Good point. I changed the picture in the infobox with one showing Gould playing, courtesy of the Gould foundation. Hope it is better. --Alberto Fernandez Fernandez (talk) 15:36, 17 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The picture needs a caption. Can someone find out the date of the photo?  Is he seated at his beloved Steinway CD 318 piano?  Proper captioning of photos is a requirement of GA articles.  Argolin (talk) 09:48, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Can't find the date nor the source of the picture. Probably taken by Don Hunstein around the 1970s during the same photoshoot of the picture in this NYT article --Alberto Fernandez Fernandez (talk) 10:16, 22 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks Afernand74. I'm becoming a big fan of the NY Times.  Every major newspaper in Canada wants to charge for access to their archives.  I removed the red link in the caption.  They're not allowed in GA articles.  That is if you're creating an article?  Later... Argolin (talk) 11:42, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Afernand74 is there a particluar reason why you set the picture is set to 275px? I perfer the sanadard picutre size used in most music bios. Argolin (talk) 05:29, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Only a cosmetic reason, I am afraid. The infobox used in this article do not allow its size to be set independently from the picture's. Making infobox larger allow the  Award list to be more compact. Feel free to revert this change anytime. --Alberto Fernandez Fernandez (talk) 13:56, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I was hoping that was your rationale. I wasn't too happy with it either.  I've niped/tucked the award names & album names.  I will change your citation to a note, when I get around to using it in the article.  Do you know whether credit to the photographer is supposed to go in the caption?  I can't remember and don't know all the ins/outs of image usage.  Argolin (talk) 21:47, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
 * No idea. The reason why I put it is because Don Hustein is the author of a long list of covers, artist picture and deserves his own wikipedia page. He is the author of numerous album covers of Gould. . --Alberto Fernandez Fernandez (talk) 13:47, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

First name
Throughout the article, his first name is spelled "Glenn." The image, however, contains his signature in which his first name is spelled "Glen." I assume that he knew the correct spelling of his own name and therefore the whole article should be changed from "Glenn Gould" to "Glen Gould."Lestrade (talk) 17:51, 20 February 2012 (UTC)Lestrade


 * You might want to check footnote 1 in the References section. The legal name was Glenn but was subject to variable spelling, even by Gould himself. Welham66 (talk) 14:27, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

To the original poster - As mentioned above, 'Glenn' was his legal name, but he largely omitted the final 'n' when spelling it. Why? A pretty flimsy rationale behind it; he claimed that if he tried to write two 'n's, his hand would just keep going until there were two many. So for convenience, he wrote 'Glen.' When he was a toddler he wrote his name in block capitals under a picture, and it read 'GLENN.' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:AEFF:1E00:605A:B8DC:993F:9A13 (talk) 17:30, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

CD 318
There's a brief reference in the article to CD318 - can someone who knows about it please add some more about it? Noel (talk) 00:34, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know how/where/if to include this (maybe a footnote?) - but, there was a book written about it:


 * And a News Release:
 * And a News Release:


 * ~Eric F 74.60.29.141 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * ~Eric F 74.60.29.141 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Infobox
I noticed the following internal note, and was wondering why an Infobox might not be appropriate (?). ~Eric F 74.60.29.141 (talk) 20:21, 11 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The link found in that note provides an explanation. Toccata quarta (talk) 20:26, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Since there was no discussion regarding a consensus, (pro or con) I just thought it should be brought up. Would #3 (see link) be a primary reason for not having an Infobox? ~E:74.60.29.141 (talk) 20:47, 11 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Members of Wikiprojects do no have any more say over the contents of specific articles than anyone else. I read as much of the lengthy linked discussion as my attention span would permit, and didn't see any reasons given as to why articles about composers are more or less suited to the inclusion infoboxes than other biographical articles (none of the numbered reasons referred to above even mention composers).  My take on the message is this: it's a warning that some of the many editors who don't like infoboxes (in general) likely have this article on their watchlists, so if you try to add one you had better have a few hours to spare for discussion and you may even have to start an RFC to balance out the discussion with editors who aren't members of the Composers WikiProject, so why even start?  It appears more intended to prevent a discussion rather than to provoke one.&mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 13:55, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Lists
There are lists on this talk page; while they might not belong in the article, couldn't there be separate list pages, with perhaps a paragraph or two (prose) about the subject(s) of the list(s). It seems there is no shortage of lists associated with pop-stars, etc., I see no reason why these lists don't have a place besides this talk page. ~ Btw, I added a movie to the movie list, and a book to the book list (above). ~Eric F 74.60.29.141 (talk) 22:11, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Help with Gould docs online
Rather than offering readers links where they they might buy the 1959 docs Glenn Gould - Off the Record and Glenn Gould - On the Record from commercial resellers, I've attempted to revise the cite to reflect the fact that they can now be streamed at no charge from the National Film Board of Canada site. Problem is, we now have two references side by side and I think it would be best to have them both as a single reference, as they are clearly companion films. But I don't know how I might adapt the cite video template accordingly, and I welcome any help or suggestions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:09, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Works by and about Gould
Why are we talking upwards? Shouldn't a conversation logically progress down?

Regardless, see musical biography FAs like Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, Michael Jackson, and Nine Inch Nails. There are plenty of "works by or about" these people, but they don't appear on those pages. I can immediately see that works by Gould and his contributions to movies should be reinstated (but preferably in prose format) and included into the "Compositions" and "Recordings" sections respectively. Otherwise, I find it hard to determine what is notable for mention. In reference to Olivier Messiaen, the "Works" section corresponds to the "Compositions" section in Gould, and the "References" section in Gould can be converted into the "References and further reading" found in Messiaen. Furthermore, I intend to (but have not yet) use many of those books listed to add references into the Gould article. In addition, Messiaen was promoted in 2006, and I would question if the

Generally speaking, it's not that I find the information useless; I just find the information incorrectly provided (as a list). @Elisabeth, if you disagree with me, feel free to revert (per WP:BRD) and discuss :D ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  talk //  contribs 19:26, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Elisabethserafimovski. I'm not sure what the problem is with the section. The featured article Olivier Messiaen has a similar and even longer listing of material. I don't understand how having such a section should disqualify an article as a potential FA candidate, as NocturneNoir implies. I'm also unclear how a lot of the material doesn't 'pertain to Gould's life', as NocturneNoir maintains. If I'm missing something about Wiki article style policies etc. I'm happy to be corrected.Welham66 (talk) 13:59, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

I found this whole section extremely useful and think it ought to remain. I have actually used it in doing research on Gould. Does anyone else agree? Is it possible to contest the removal of this section please? Elisabethserafimovski (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:03, 10 October 2009 (UTC).

I was bold and removed this section on Gould because I don't think it pertains to Gould's life particularly well. Also, no other FA-rated biography has a list like this. I've pasted the code below in case anybody wants to access it. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR talk //  contribs 04:41, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Musical works

 * Louie, Alexina (1982), O Magnum Mysterium: In Memoriam Glenn Gould. For string orchestra.

Books

 * Andreacchi, Grace (2007), Scarabocchio A novel in which a lightly fictionalized Glenn Gould plays a prominent part.
 * Bazzana, Kevin (1997), Glenn Gould: The Performer in the Work. Clarendon, ISBN 0-19-816656-7
 * Bazzana, Kevin (2003), Wondrous Strange: The Life and Art of Glenn Gould. Oxford University Press, ISBN 0-19-517440-2
 * Bernhard, Thomas (1991), The Loser. A fictional account of a relationship with Glenn Gould and Vladimir Horowitz. University of Chicago Press, ISBN 0-226-04388-6
 * Canning, Nancy (1992), A Glenn Gould Catalog. Greenwood Press, ISBN 0-313-27412-6
 * Carroll, Jock (1995), Glenn Gould: Some Portraits of the Artist as a Young Man. Stoddart, ISBN 0-7737-2904-6
 * Cott, Jonathan (2005), Conversations with Glenn Gould. University of Chicago Press, ISBN 0-226-11623-9. Interview in two parts from 1974. Originally published in Rolling Stone magazine.
 * Friedrich, Otto (1989), Glenn Gould: A Life and Variations. Random House, ISBN 0-679-73207-1
 * Hafner, Katie (2008), A Romance on Three Legs: Glenn Gould's Obsessive Quest for the Perfect Piano. McClelland & Stewart, ISBN 0-7710-3754-6
 * Kazdin, Andrew (1989), Glenn Gould at Work: Creative Lying. E.P. Dutton, ISBN 0-525-24817-X
 * Mesaros, Helen M.D. (2008), Bravo Fortissimo: Glenn Gould: The Mind of a Canadian Virtuoso. American Literary Press Inc., ISBN 1-5616-7985-2
 * National Library of Canada (1992), Descriptive Catalogue of the Glenn Gould Papers. ISBN 0-660-57327-X
 * Ostwald, Peter (1997), Glenn Gould: The Ecstasy and Tragedy of Genius. Norton, ISBN 0-393-04077-1
 * Page, Tim (1984), The Glenn Gould Reader. Contains a select collection of Gould's essays, articles, and liner notes. Knopf, ISBN 0-394-54067-0
 * Payzant, Geoffrey (1992), Glenn Gould Music and Mind. Key Porter, ISBN 1-55013-439-6
 * Rieger, Stefan (1997), Glenn Gould czyli sztuka fugi. Słowo/Obraz Terytoria, ISBN 978-83-7453-834-3
 * Robert, John P.L. and Ghyslaine Guertin (1992), Glenn Gould: Selected Letters. Oxford University Press, ISBN 0-19-540799-7
 * Rosen, Charles (2002), Piano Notes: The World of the Pianist. The Free Press, ISBN 0-7432-4312-9.

Films about Gould

 * Glenn Gould On the Record and Glenn Gould Off the Record (both 1959). Documentaries. National Film Board of Canada.
 * Glenn Gould (1961). Biography by the NFB.
 * Conversations with Glenn Gould (1966). Filmed conversations between Glenn Gould and Humphrey Burton on classical composers. BBC.
 *  The Idea of North (film) (1970). Produced and directed by Judith Pearlman; based on Gould's original audio version.
 * Music and Terminology, Chemins de la Musique (1973–76). Glenn Gould talking about and performing music by Bach, Schoenberg, Scriabin, Gibbons, Byrd, Berg, and Wagner. Series of four films directed by Bruno Monsaingeon.
 * Radio as Music (1975). Film adaptation of an article by John Jessop (in collaboration with Gould) on Glenn Gould's contrapuntal radio documentary techniques.
 * Bach Series (1979–91). Series of three films of Glenn Gould talking about and performing the music of Bach: Goldberg Variations, Variations: Chromatic Fantasy, Partita No. 4, and excerpts from The Well-Tempered Clavier and The Art of Fugue. Clasart.
 * The Goldberg Variations: Glenn Gould Plays Bach (1981). The Bach Series directed by Bruno Monsaingeon.
 * Variations on Glenn Gould. Documentary on Glenn Gould at a recording session, making a radio documentary and in the Ontario northland.
 * Solitude, Exile and Ecstasy was a BBC Radio 3 drama broadcast in 1991. It features Gould as a character and is structured by sequential selections from his 1981 performance of J.S. Bach's Goldberg Variations.
 * Les Variacions Gould (1992). Directed by Manuel Huerga, documentary coproduced by Ovideo TV about Glenn Gould in the tenth anniversary of his death. This film has received several awards and has been finalist in the International Visual Music Awards of Cannes '93.
 * Thirty-Two Short Films about Glenn Gould (1993). Directed by François Girard and starring Colm Feore as Gould.
 * Glenn Gould: The Russian Journey (2002). The 1957 trip in the USSR and Gould's performances in Moscow and Leningrad.
 * Extasis (2003). Documentary featuring Glenn Gould in concert; also, interviews with acquaintances.
 * Glenn Gould: Life & Times (2003). DVD documentary. Contains performances, sessions, and interviews. Also a look at his (still-playable) grand piano and chair.
 * Glenn Gould: The Alchemist (2003). DVD documentary footage of Gould's performances and interviews with Gould about his music and life.
 * Glenn Gould: au-delà du temps (2005). A French-Canadian documentary by Bruno Monsaingeon, 107 minutes, first aired on arte, May 13, 2006, Winner of Fipa d’or 2006, catégorie musique et spectacles.
 * Gould contributed to the screenplay of the experimental CBC/PBS TV movie The Idea of North, produced and directed by Judith Pearlman.
 * Genius Within: The Inner Life of Glenn Gould (2009; Director's cut, 2010) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.60.29.141 (talk) 20:39, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Films using Gould's music
Gould's recorded music has been featured in many other films, both in his lifetime and after his death.
 * Spheres (1969). Animated film directed by René Jodoin and Norman McLaren, with music by Bach played by Glenn Gould. National Film Board of Canada.
 * 'Slaughterhouse-Five' (1972). Directed by George Roy Hill; based on the Kurt Vonnegut novel. Musical soundtrack arranged and performed by Glenn Gould. Universal Pictures.
 * The Terminal Man (1974). Directed by Mike Hodges; based on a Michael Crichton novel. Soundtrack features Glenn Gould playing the Goldberg Variations. Warner Bros.
 * The Wars (1983) features Gould playing music of Richard Strauss and Johannes Brahms. Directed by Robin Philips; based on the novel by Timothy Findley.
 * 'Hannibal' (2001) uses Gould's 1981 recording of the Goldberg Variations.
 * The Triplets of Belleville (2003) includes a segment in which an animated Glenn Gould with greatly exaggerated mannerisms plays Prelude No. 2 in C minor from Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier, Book One.
 * Gould's prowess was referenced (and his recordings used) in the motion picture When Will I Be Loved, written and directed by James Toback.
 * 'Hannibal Rising' (2007) has a scene in which the young Hannibal Lecter plays Gould's 1955 recording of the Goldberg Variations while he injects himself with sodium thiopental. This is an anachronism, because the scene takes place when Lecter is an eighteen-year-old medical student in Paris in 1951. In The Silence of the Lambs, Lecter listens to a recording of the variations while incarcerated in the United States, but the movie uses a recording by Jerry Zimmermann, not Gould.

Published music

 * Cadenza to Beethoven Concerto No.1, Op. 15 (Barger and Barclay)
 * Piano Pieces ISMN: M-001-08466-6 (Schott)
 * String Quartet Op. 1 (Barger and Barclay ed., 1956)
 * String Quartet Op. 1 ISMN: M-001-12171-2 (Schott ed.)
 * Lieberson Madrigal (SATB and Piano) ISMN: M-001-11577-3 (Schott)
 * So You Want to Write a Fugue? (G. Schirmer)
 * Sonata for Piano ISMN: M-001-13363-0 (Schott)
 * Sonata for Bassoon and Piano ISMN: M-001-09317-0 (Schott)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 4 one external links on Glenn Gould. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.cbc.ca/gould/timeline/
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20121114025505/http://www.civilization.ca/cmc/exhibitions/cmc/gould/gould05e.shtml to http://www.civilization.ca/cmc/exhibitions/cmc/gould/gould05e.shtml
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20111213190737/http://www.civilization.ca/cmc/exhibitions/cmc/gould/gould01e.shtml to http://www.civilization.ca/cmc/exhibitions/cmc/gould/gould01e.shtml
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20111129073423/http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1967623 to http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1967623

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 19:24, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

World's Greatest Pianist
User:AnomieBot, you placed "citation needed" on my edit saying that Glenn Gould is one of the greatest pianists of the 20th century. However, many other pianists - such as Claudio Arrau - have the same claim on their page, without any "citation needed" tags. Why is this so? Thanks.

Lonious (talk) 10:59, 28 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Quite right; all such claims should be sourced to reliable, independent publications. I added a reference from the New York Times to Arrau's article.  If you find any more such unsourced claims, feel free to add a citation to support them, or, if you can't find one, to add a "citation needed" tag.  If respected music critics have called Gould "one of the greatest", the published source(s) should be cited; if not, the text should be changed to reflect what they did say.  &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 12:26, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Glenn Gould. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120114005242/http://glenngould.ca/glenn-gould-toronto-walk/ to http://glenngould.ca/glenn-gould-toronto-walk/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 05:01, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Where's the usual, standard Biographical Box which is normally on the Side of all Wikipedia biographical pages?
Hello. I'm wondering why this page has abandoned standard Wikipedia practices by neglecting to include a biographical box on the right side of the page? A picture and signature, while useful, is not enough information, and by leaving off such standard information as Birthplace, Place of Death (age of death), etc. I feel this page is striking out on its own, as it were, in a way that if copied on a wider scale would lead Wikipedia to become less uniform (also less informative and less easy to use.)

Think about putting the Biographical Box back on this page, as it is done on every other biographical page in Wikipedia, please. Thanks180.57.211.128 (talk) 07:15, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Glenn Gould. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120531081754/http://junoawards.ca/awards/artist-summary/?artist_name=Glenn+Gould&submit=Search to http://junoawards.ca/awards/artist-summary/?artist_name=Glenn+Gould&submit=Search

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 14:43, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Relationships
May I suggest the subheading "Personal life" instead of "Relationships," since personal life is the commonly used term in Wikipedia for this aspect? The alternative applies to other historical figures or celebrities even if they never married or produced children.Cdg1072 (talk) 20:29, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Lead image
We have others at commons. How is non-free justified here? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:10, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I think the argument is that there aren't (yet) any frontal image of Gould as an adult, so the non-free image serves an identification purpose that neither the side-on images nor his childhood images could fill. If you don't agree with this argument, it might be worth opening an FFD about it. Deryck C. 12:32, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi, Deryck. Interesting. I've never heard that one before. I might just open an FFD after all. Many thanks for the good feedback. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:21, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:46, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

"who became"
What exactly is the sense of introducing Gould as someone who "became" a celebrated pianist? He was such a celebrated pianist, because he became it, but it isn't normal to say that he "became." That kind of indirectness is not used when talking about anyone else, and Gould should be no different.Cdg1072 (talk) 00:03, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

"best known" and "most celebrated" are not hyphenated phrases
Cdg1072 (talk) 00:11, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Timeline of Glenn Gould's career up for deletion review
Is there any value in the article Timeline of Glenn Gould's career?  D r e a m Focus  04:45, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

"The Greatest Pianist of All Time" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect The Greatest Pianist of All Time. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 6 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Galaktos (talk) 09:47, 6 December 2021 (UTC)