Talk:Gligor Zisov

POV
There are many POV phrases in this article. All place names are not Greek. The aricle says that he was the head schoolmaster when the village of Aposkepos is a small village that propably had one teacher. Other phrases that I believe that are pov and bad wriiten: mass beatings, carried out under orders, Refusing to take the opportunity to hide and other facts seems to me no accurate.--Vagrand (talk) 04:41, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Greek names of villages added, bulgarian name is preffered, because it were used by the time Zisov lived there. In the article is mentioned he became teacher in Chereshnica (Polikeraso), but not in Aposkep (Aposkepos), no metter this is his home village. I think there is no POV at all. --Подпоручикъ (talk) 07:23, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Bulgarian name? Only the official name of Ottoman cencus can be added.--Vagrand (talk) 16:52, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * At that time, the school had had only one teacher, it was a small village. How he can be at the same time head schoolmaster ?Vagrand (talk) 07:57, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The article is based on a book with testimonies about a person. History facts cannot be discrided by memoires. The book has a lack of reliable sourses that can actually confirm the facts.--Vagrand (talk) 15:26, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Check this for instance: The Valiant Years. --Подпоручикъ (talk) 18:04, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * If Stalin had wrote memoires (I dont know if he wrote, as example) and after a documentary had produced based on his memoires, that doesn't means that the producers didn't excuclively used only this source for there work, but used also other reliable sources and used his memoire as a timeline of his life, included his thoughts and excerpts from his work.--Vagrand (talk) 01:13, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I checked the book. It seems that Vagrand is right - Zisov was just schoolteacher in Chereshnica (Polikeraso). However the rest of the information is consistent with the source: more than one of his students tell what they saw (mass beatings etc.) and what they know. None of them is Stalin or something like that.--AKeckarov (talk) 08:42, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * So the first phrase that he was a schoolteacher in Kastoria should be erased. To many errors makes this article unreliable.--Vagrand (talk) 16:53, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I added the accuracy template. The presence of on army is still not cleared.--Vagrand (talk) 17:09, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Kostursko means region of Kostur (Castoria), but not the city itself, i edited the sentence and accuracy template is no more needed. --Подпоручикъ (talk) 19:36, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The region is kaza of Kesriye, today's Kastoria peripheral unit. The accurancy remains when he was not a schoolmaster and their are not sourses about an army in the area.--Vagrand (talk) 21:30, 19 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Please, allow me to intervene again: Zisov was a teacher in a village in the kaza of Kostur (Castoria) - Chereshnica (Πολυκέρασο). We have a source about the presence of the Greek troops in this village and their actions. It is pointed in the article – p.40, 51 etc. We can clarify even the exact date of the reprisals: according to one of the interlocutors, recorded by prof. Shclifov, this happened in May 1913, when was the Feast of St. Nicholas (p. 40). --AKeckarov (talk) 08:49, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The feast of Saint Nicholas is not in May . As I said to another discussion, if we want to prove that Gligor Zisov was an historical figure, we must have sourses, that mean an reliable bibliograpfy that discribes his life. Verbal reports without confirming the facts mislead users and consist an original research.Vagrand (talk) 21:04, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Obviously you are not familiar with the Feasts of Saint Nicholas. There is a Feast of St. Nicholas in May. (Please, follow the internal link - Saint Nicholas). As I said to another discussion, the author of the book (who uses this interviews) was a professor (born in Chereshnica), academic scientist who had worked in Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, University of Szeged (Hungary), Sofia University etc.
 * For Catholics. And please let me dought about a professor who is absolute about the ethnicity of Slavs in Greek Macedonia. Gligor Zisov is nothing more than a vistime and his not notable. There is not fact that was a promoter of the Bulgarian propaganda (bulgarian terminology) in this area. If he was, he could had an article.--Vagrand (talk) 20:17, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Not only for Catholics. There is a Feast of St. Nicholas in May for orthodox too. In Bulgarian (including in the dialect in Chereshnitsa) this feast is called "Summer (feast of) St. Nicholas" (Летен Свети Никола) although it is in May. In the calendar of the Russian Orthodox Church is also included celebration of St. Nicholas in May. Here you can read in Greek - Τον μήνα Μάϊο τελείται η εορτή της ανακομιδής η μετακομιδής του λειψάνου του από τα Μύρα της Λυκίας στο Μπάρι της Ιταλίας και της προόδου ή παρόδου αυτού, της διελεύσεώς του δηλαδή από τους διαφόρους τόπους, και μάλιστα κατά τρεις διαφορετικές ημέρες, ήτοι στις 9, στις 10 και στις 20 Μαΐου. We are debating in two places already several days. You are looking for any arguments. Please, acknowledge at least one time that you're wrong, so we can continue to seek abutment. Regards,--AKeckarov (talk) 07:15, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * John the Baptist has many feasts in the years, but when we say "the feast of St John the Baptist" is the next day after Epiphafy.--Vagrand (talk) 20:33, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * But I wrote: ... happened in May 1913, when was the Feast of St. Nicholas and I did not make a mistake, nor the source. There was a Feast of St. Nicholas in May 1913. --AKeckarov (talk) 13:16, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

P.S. It is a surprise for me the assertion that the term "promoter of the Bulgarian propaganda" is a Bulgarian terminology. There is a word "propaganda" (пропаганда) in Bulgarian, but in this context is is used mostly for alien activities.--AKeckarov (talk) 07:51, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

P.S.2 Do you think that was only Greek and Serbian propaganda (english term), and Bulgarian acts, events and historiography is the the truth and the only truth? please !--Vagrand (talk) 20:29, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Please, do not shift the topic. You claim that this is the Bulgarian terminology (about Bulgarian activities), I doubt it. The other is a subject for further discussions.--AKeckarov (talk) 13:16, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Suggestions
I suggest all quotations to be move to a note section (the part that soldiers were actiong like animals should be erased), the text will discribe as "according to (author)" like, and add reference about the presence of the Evzones at Polykerasob (see en for deletion talk page).--Vagrand (talk) 20:29, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think it makes sense to move the quotations to a note section. We have a reference for the presence of the Greek army. --AKeckarov (talk) 13:16, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Article edited, i think now templates about NPOV and factual accuracy should be removed. --Подпоручикъ (talk) 05:22, 3 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with the removal of NPOV and factual accuracy templates, I removed them. But I added the notability about persons .--Vagrand (talk) 21:48, 3 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I marked with all phrases that differed from the original text.--Vagrand (talk) 22:32, 3 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Im putting back the accuracy template. Many things still make no sense.--Vagrand (talk) 22:51, 3 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Many things уе have already discussed. Which of them still make no sense?--AKeckarov (talk) 16:02, 28 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Why Zisov was taken back to Polykeraso and why he was killed by the officials?. There was a trial or not, he was part guerillas or a secret group? He was killed when he tried to escape and in witch circonstances?. Also the unique reference (original research) from a disputed historian that he used the method of interviews to write a biography without any other sourses gives lack of verifiability (questionable sources as sources on themselves, exceptional claims require exceptional sources) and notability (victims and perpetrators) of the article. --Vagrand (talk) 15:44, 29 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Interesting questions, but they only show that it is good to find more sources. However, I do not see any reason to say that many things still make no sense. I am removing the template for factual accuracy - for now.--Simin (talk) 17:17, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

Orphan article message
JoeNMLC (talk) 14:04, 30 September 2022 (UTC)