Talk:Global financial system/Archive 1

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:24, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Potential resource ...
Financial world dominated by a few deep pockets -- Economic “superentity” controls more than one-third of global wealth by Rachel Ehrenberg Science News Monday, August 15th, 2011, related to Talk:Wealth 97.87.29.188 (talk) 20:19, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * See arXiv ...  99.181.138.215 (talk) 02:18, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd assume "communist China" is not the Chinese Soviet Republic, but the PRC. Hasn't "Ownership" and "holding shares in a mutual fund" changed meaning during the history of the PRC?  97.87.29.188 (talk) 21:39, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
 * arXiv.org of Cornell University Library? 64.27.194.74 (talk) 19:32, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

potential resources
Talk:Occupy Wall Street/Archive 7 and Talk:"Occupy" protests # Wikilink global financial system

99.181.130.155 (talk) 06:54, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

NYT resource for where?
See São Paulo, Brazil, Veja (magazine), Itaú Unibanco, Fundação Getúlio Vargas, 2011 Spanish protests & Occupy Wall Street, Late-2000s financial crisis, Wealth inequality in the United States, Income inequality in Brazil, Category:Brazilian billionaires, Moisés Naím, Chile, Colombia, Patricio Navia, Protectionism,
 * Latin America Looks at West’s Fiscal Crises, and Sees Its Own Past by Simon Romero, published January 27, 2012; excerpt ...
 * http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-11-25/italians-obsessed-by-lo-spread-as-yield-makes-headlines.html
 * http://economia.estadao.com.br/noticias/economia%20brasil,pela-primeira-vez-risco-brasil-e-menor-que-risco-eua-diz-mantega,71658,0.htm
 * http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/26/business/tempting-targets-for-itau-in-2012.html
 * http://www.americasquarterly.org/node/3213
 * http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/i/income/income_inequality/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
 * http://www.elpais.com/articulo/english/Latin/lessons/for/Europe/elpepueng/20111106elpeng_6/Ten
 * http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/06/what-happened-to-argentina/
 * http://zocalopublicsquare.org/thepublicsquare/2011/11/27/decline-in-style/read/inside-out/

99.181.159.67 (talk) 01:42, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Article graphic
The original article graphic BankingCrises.svg was replaced by User:Lawrencekhoo with graphic G_foreign_exchange_market_turnover.gif only tangentially related to the topic, so I have removed it. User:Lawrencekhoo expressed concerns about WP:OR for the BankingCrises.svg graphic, but I see no such problem with the graphic as the graphic contributor clearly states the graphic was compiled from a published data source. However, the BankingCrises.svg may not be the best illustration either, so I am leaving it without a graphic for the time being. Meclee (talk) 15:17, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Call for contributions to the Global financial system page
The Global financial system page is in poor shape I find. It has no lead section, needs more content and citations, a proper info box. I added content in March 2013, and periodically look what is changing. Reviewing the article and talk page’s history I note that editing/ discussion has basically stalled. (The last edits were formal corrections, but no content was added.) The topic supposedly is of  “high importance“ for the business wiki project and globalization wiki project, even of mid-importance for 3 other projects (economics, systems and international relations), and “of interest”, although no rated by the financing wiki project, which is no surprise, I assume the latter finds it too non-technical / political.

Given the inactivity I think it's fair to say the rating by the above mentioned different wiki projects is not sincere. I want to know who puts these wikiproject ratings up (even a duplicate rating by the business project) and who reviews them. I am calling for attention to this page, by putting it on the “attention list” of the business and globalization wikiproject.

Calling all interested folks and experts/participants of the wikiprojects to roll their sleeves up. Look forward to hearing from anyone.Wuerzele (talk) 16:45, 1 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Bringing that article up to standards and getting it reviewed for GA status is high on my to-do list, but my editing activity has been quite low since around February. Personal life has gotten in the way for a while, but I will be giving that article some more attention over this summer. As for the ratings in project banners, I would advise taking those with a grain of salt. I've never seen any of the WikiProjects I'm a member of make any serious effort to keep those ratings accurate and current. To answer your question, whoever adds the project banner usually subjectively picks a rating, and virtually no one ever reviews those ratings (in fact a lot of those ratings won't change unless someone is adjusting them to reflect that the article has become a GA or FA). Ultimately, there will either be people actively interested in working on the article at any given time or there won't be, and that will forever fluctuate. I have a strong interest in the article and a wealth of good sources, but my wiki activity has been limited to lurking over my watchlist for some number of months now. Life just kind of happens that way sometimes. Glad you brought this up though; it is an important topic and international finance is a lacking realm overall on Wikipedia - you can check out my user page to see some of the bolts I've already tightened thus far. Still have a long way to go.  John Shandy`   &bull; talk 02:30, 2 June 2013 (UTC)thank you.--Wuerzele (talk) 22:31, 4 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Wuerzele for bringing attention to this article. I am the WikiProject Globalization member who initially rated this as 'start' class, which is a good class for this article. The only lower class is 'stub', and the article is more than a stub.  It does indeed need attention.  I have no doubt that John Shandy` is the current WikiProject Globalization member with the best qualifications to update this article.  I know this is high on his to-do list, but like all volunteer editors he has a lot on his plate.  I've been upgrading some other articles related to Global public goods.  Once I finish those tasks, if John hasn't had time to work with it, I will at least do a re-org of this article until John has more time.  In the meanwhile, anything further you might like to contribute to the article is appreciated!  Regards, Meclee (talk) 23:20, 20 June 2013 (UTC)thanks for replying--Wuerzele (talk) 22:31, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Question re: Bretton Woods
The Bretton Woods section does not seem to make mention of the founding of the World Bank. Will that be covered elsewhere? Regards, Meclee (talk) 20:57, 12 August 2013 (UTC)


 * The section mentions the establishment of the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (IBRD). At this point in history, there was no entity known as the "World Bank" per se. The World Bank is a name that would emerge later to collectively refer to both the IBRD and the International Development Association (IDA). The World Bank is kind of weird in that it is two organs of the World Bank Group, the IBRD and the IDA. These organs are operated in tandem by a single set of staff. The organizational structure of the World Bank Group can be pictured as follows:
 * World Bank Group
 * World Bank
 * International Bank for Reconstruction and Development
 * International Development Association
 * International Finance Corporation
 * International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes
 * Multilateral Investment Guarantee Agency


 * More to your point however, I do intend to make this distinction clear. I just haven't fully thought out the best way/location to do it yet. You brought up an important consideration as not everyone is familiar with this nuance.  John Shandy`   &bull; talk 23:43, 12 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the reply. I think it would be good to mention the WB in the Bretton Woods section by saying the IBRD provided the foundation for the WB.  Just an opinion to consider.  Regards, Meclee (talk) 16:40, 14 August 2013 (UTC)


 * That's along the lines of what I was thinking. I've made an edit to the section to improve clarity. See what you think of it.  John Shandy`   &bull; talk 01:31, 15 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Looks good! Regards, Meclee (talk) 13:21, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Kudos
Just a note to say this article is coming along nicely,   John Shandy` , thanks to your hard work! Regards, Meclee (talk) 14:23, 8 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks!  John Shandy`   &bull; talk 15:06, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you much for revamping the article. It is a lot better than before. Wish more people contributed, to improve on it, lighten the task ..I did some editing today, not much. --Wuerzele (talk) 23:13, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Re-org of article
Until someone with more expertise than I has time to substantively improve the article, I am undertaking a re-org and general clean-up. Suggestions for improvement are welcome. Meclee (talk) 15:15, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Done: a quick re-org simply to make information more readable, remove no lede tag, tag areas for expansion. I may return for additional re-write, but that will require substantial research on my part to become more familiar with the topic.  I encourage more knowledgeable editors to contribute to substantive re-write. Meclee (talk) 16:19, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Added to articles for improvement at Articles_for_Improvement/Global_financial_system. Meclee (talk) 16:47, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Delayed thanks, Mclee!--Wuerzele (talk) 23:15, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Please Help To Edit this article -more angles are needed
I think the article has much improved this year, but the subject still needs more angles, as so far it is written entirely from a Western (US/Euro) urban, power perspective. For example the terms China or India are nowhere to be found, although both undoubtedly are big players. First, while only having a small global share of privately-held external assets/liabilities, these countries hold large official reserves: 16.0 and 3.3% of world reserves in 2004. Second, their international balance sheets are highly asymmetric: both are “short equity, long debt.” Third, China and India have improved their net external positions over the last decade. (Open Economies ReviewSeptember 2007, Volume 18, Issue 4, pp 499-520. The Evolving Role of China and India in the Global Financial System. Philip R. Lane,Sergio L. Schmukler) A graphic would be helpful. The article also definitely needs more elaboration on criticism / reform.

I am no financial expert, and no expert on the subject, but will contribute where and when I can. --Wuerzele (talk) 23:43, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

IMFSite.org appears to be a dubious source
IMFSite appears to me to be a dubious source, with no established reputation for fact checking and accuracy. It appears to be very selective and biased in the sources it selects and the minority viewpoints to which it gives great voice - technically speaking, sources aren't required to be "unbiased" but it can be a signal of unreliability (per WP:BIASED). To be honest, it strikes me more as one big advertisement for gold than as a source of information about the global financial architecture. A cursory glance suggests that quite a fair bit of its content is self-published. For the things that aren't self-published, like WSJ articles, books, etc., we should cite those sources directly if we are to use them. Even so, the points of view those sources promote should be attributed to their authors rather than included in Wikipedia's own voice. John Shandy`  &bull; talk 20:26, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd agree with that; but the stuff copied from other sources is cherrypicked to fit one particular perspective, so substituting citations leaves us with an NPOV problem. Removing the content altogether is better. bobrayner (talk) 20:37, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree that the way the content has been included seems to carry with it a rather POV undertone.  John Shandy`   &bull; talk 12:54, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Perspective
I don't see that this is written to fit a particular perspective. The problem is that the current global financial system originated in the actions of a set of wealthy countries in the Western hemisphere, such that recounting the history seems to be only from that POV. Please note that this article is still in the works; there is a section for criticisms of the system that has yet to be fleshed-out. I would encourage anyone interested in criticism and additional perspectives to begin fleshing-out that section. Regards, Meclee (talk) 14:25, 25 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree completely. I've been super busy at work the past 2 months, but after today will be taking a good chunk of time off, so I'm hoping to try and pick up where I left off and build some momentum again. I'm not going to stop working at this article until it's Featured Article status (however long that takes is a separate question).  John Shandy`   &bull; talk 12:58, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

OK, after reviewing the hx, I see now that there's a small edit war ongoing. Bobrayner has a point on primary sources and the "voice" of the criticisms that have been added; Wuerzele has a point that those criticisms have been made. Might I suggest that Wuerzele add criticisms here on the talk page such that they can be added to the article in the voice of the authors of the criticisms rather than seeming to be statements of fact? Regards, Meclee (talk) 14:41, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Removed Podesta Group content on grounds of notability
I removed the following content:
 * International lobbying firms play a role in international financial systems, as they increasingly develop cross-border lobbying arms to influence international negotiations. For example, Podesta Group, a Washington lobbying firm, founded "Global Solutions" to influence multilateral free trade agreements, such as the Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership Agreement (TPP) and the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), and other issues "at the intersection of trade, economics, politics and diplomacy".

I cannot find any coverage of this group or its "Global Solutions" entity in the academic literature on international finance and economics, and I've found only sparse news coverage, mostly on news sites I've never heard of before. The only citation offered in the article was the group's website. Even if someone can find appropriate sourcing for this content, I don't think it belongs in this article. It's better suited for those particular trade partnership articles or perhaps an article specifically dealing with international trade or trade negotiations. John Shandy`  &bull; talk 17:11, 6 December 2013 (UTC)