Talk:Globalization and women in China/Archive 1

Global Societies 'To Do' List
Overview of Globalization[Dominique]

Domestic Life and Chinese Women[Mariah]

Chinese Women in the Work Place[Angela]

Urbanization of Young Women Workers[Erika]

References[to be added by all as we go]

Please add subheadings under your sections when you know what specifically you would like to cover. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mariahjenae (talk •contribs) 01:23, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Just wanted to let everyone know that I will do the brief history of globalization in China and the introduction on gender issues. Thanks! Dagypt (talk) 15:07, 13 October 2009 (UTC) Also, when I start to write my portion of the article, I was going to do it on Editing User:Dagypt/Gender aspects of globalization in China because it is suggested, so I am able to develop the article with less risk of deletion Dagypt (talk) 15:29, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Mariah here, I am going to cover the affect that globalization has had on the family life of Chinese women (i.e. how they relate to their children and spouse) I will be gathering sources in the days to come. —Precedingunsigned comment added by Mariahjenae (talk •contribs) 05:28, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi guys! I will cover globalization and how it has affected Chinese women in their work field. Whether it be the conditions or the jobs they are now allowed to take up. Angelalhan (talk) 14:24, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Hey everyone - sorry about the late notice! I didn't know that this page was available until Piotr informed be this week, and I apologize for missing a lot last week - I had an infection and had to go home for a few days. Anyways, I was going to do the urbanization/migration of young women workers to the cities, focusing on their treatment and stays in the dormitories where many of them live while they are working. I've done a little bit of research and found that this is a fairly new phenomenon related to the influx of globalization in China. Thanks! Erika Emm66 (talk) 19:06, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Also, I have found that the Economics Library in Posvar has a lot of books with info and articles related to the transformation of the Chinese global economy and a few books related to the social changes and even gender, if anyone wants to check it out. I found this more useful than any of the articles that I read through. Emm66 (talk) 19:10, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Warning
Just as a warning, if this is in the mainspace with no content, somebody will likely try to delete it. If you have any usable content to add right now, you should do so. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 19:43, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with Nikki. This currently is not up to WP:STUB level and as such risks being deleted again. In fact it was nominated for deletion again two minutes after it was created . The deletion is postponed for now but you must add encyclopedic content and make your article at least a WP:STUB as soon as possible. You may also want to compare your article with what other groups are doing: Wikipedia:School_and_university_projects/User:Piotrus/Fall_2009. A "to do" outline list is fine for an article's talk page, but not for an article itself, which should be actually useful to a reader. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 22:00, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Nikkimaria, Dagypt and Mariahjenae: any objections to me moving what you've completed so far to User:Nikkimaria/Gender aspects of globalization in China?  Then you can chop and change it at a pace that best suits you. Thanks, MuffledThud (talk) 14:48, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You can put it in my userspace if you want, but I'm not actually part of this project, so it would probably make more sense to use Dagypt/Mariahjenae's userspace. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:30, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It was originally userfied to User:Dagypt userspace, probably best to do it again if the need arises. I would hope that the article will see much improvement in the next few days, however. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:03, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Only problem with moving it back there is that another stub has been created there following the move to mainspace: I've tagged it for housekeeping deletion in order to move this back, but if this gets declined by admins I'll move it to a subpage of whichever user in this educational project would like it. MuffledThud (talk) 07:37, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

What needs to be done, really soon
I really like what you guys are doing here. But as it is now, it doesn't work. I know you're going to put information in, but '''the page cannot stay in article space unless it provides some very basic context and information. If it is nothing but a bunch of headers and notes, it has to be deleted and worked on in article space until it provides some info.''' The reason being, if people reading the encyclopedia click on a link they're interested in and end up at at a page looking like this, they're not finding anything useful and it's a waste of their time. If the article has at least some bare, basic notes, then the reader can at least learn something, even if the article isn't yet perfect.

So the point is, it should be your priority to create something even as minimal as an outline in the article. Then the article is stable, and real work can begin. A little insignificant Help, it's almost Halloween! AAH! 14:24, 27 October 2009 (UTC)


 * So we should have an outline as in what we are going to include under each header? Sorry for taking up space at the moment, we're having some organizational issues(to be resolved within the next day or so hopefully).--Mariahjenae (talk) 18:30, 29 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The article, located in mainspace (i.e. where most regular articles are) should conform to WP:STUB(i.e. should have some actual, useful content - not just a to do lists or such, which belong on discussion pages). You should not have empty headers in the articles; if you add headers you should also add useful content underneath it (them). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 18:34, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * No further edits were done, so I've now had the re-created entry deleted (G6) and moved this back to the subpage. I'll leave a talkback note for everyone in the article's edit history, to make sure they're aware. MuffledThud (talk) 11:11, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 16:51, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Overview of Globalization in China
As it is, with this section being the only developed section in the article, your article is not really about Gender aspects of globalization in China but simply about (history of) globalization in China. That's a very interesting section, although note that it has nothing to do with the gender aspects. As such you may in fact consider transforming it into an extra credit assignment and create an article on Globalization in China or history of globalization in China instead. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 17:47, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry that I haven't been able to get my information up yet, I've had a bit of trouble consolidating it all. My portion will be up and running sometime this afternoon.--Mariahjenae (talk) 18:13, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

I just posted my information and will be working in the coming days to more properly cite the information used and add more information about Chinese women and their relationships within their families. --Mariahjenae (talk) 20:40, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Merge and move to mainspace
Your priority task should be to merge content from User:Angelalhan/Gender aspects of globalization in China, add content by two other group members who as far as I know have not edited yet and move the article to mainspace. I will post a more detailed review of your work when that happens. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:58, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

New content
I apologize for my late additions - I was clueless and confused about where to post, and did not want to post in the wrong place. I have added a portion of my draft, and I will add the rest shortly, as I am moving locations. I no longer need to meet, group members -I apologize for the inconvenience. Thank you, Piotrus, for you help. Emm66 (talk) 04:49, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Talk page comments
Glad to see that we finally got the article up and running. I apologize for the messiness in my references, I'll be working that out soon. Keep looking for anything to better tie our pieces together. I think a sentence here or there alluding to someone else's section would be nice.--Mariahjenae (talk) 14:40, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Hey I like the work everyone's been doing so far! I'm gonna be looking up pictures for my section, would you guys mind if I added pictures in your sections too? Angelalhan (talk) 22:11, 6 November 2009 (UTC)


 * The above comments were on the talk page when I conducted the history merge. Protonk (talk) 07:46, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Hey girls we need to have our stuff cited before they get deleted. I think we have warnings about it. Angelalhan(talk) 07:24, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

I'll be doing that this afternoon after my enrollment appointment. Thanks for putting pictures up! It looks so much better that way! --Mariahjenae (talk) 14:10, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Just reading through some of the other sections on the page and noticed something. Angela, in your section on factories you stick to future tense a lot so the word "will" is used repetitively. I didn't want to go in and just change your whole paragraph which does have a lot of good information but I just wanted to let you know that something clashed when I read it.--Mariahjenae (talk) 14:01, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh ok I fixed that paragraph. If you guys want, you can just fix any of my stuff up, I don't really care about that. Thanks for the info though! Angelalhan (talk) 03:14, 11 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Good points, Mariah. You guys should certainly care about such style issues - they are important for all types of papers, Wikipedia and others. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 05:25, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I think our article is looking pretty good here girls. We just need to have the references tagged for the section on Urbanization of women workers and then I think we can nominate it. If you notice anything else that needs fixing please post it here or fix it yourself if possible.--Mariahjenae (talk) 07:21, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Early draft comments
Now that the article has been finally merged and moved to mainspace (thanks Protonk), here is my review of the early draft:

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 17:06, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.[?]
 * Consider adding more links to the article; per Manual of Style (links) and Build the web, create links to relevant articles.[?]
 * If there is not a free use image in the top right corner of the article, please try to find and include one.[?]
 * This article does not have any categories. Please categorize it with relevant.
 * Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
 * Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “ All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
 * As done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space in between. For example, the sun is larger than the moon [2]. is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.[2][?]
 * Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]
 * There are large swaths of unreferenced texts (entire sections "Domestic Life of a Chinese Woman" and "Urbanization of Young Women Workers", for example). They need inline references (see WP:CITE and WP:FOOTNOTES).
 * You should aim to reference each sentence, not only each paragraph (or section).

You don't need a section to define globalization. This is what globalization article is for. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 18:10, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Pictures
Hi everyone,

Angela could you help me out with how to put pictures up? I looked on the Wikipedia:Chatsheet, but it's not much help. Also, if anyone could help me with how to cite multiple sections with the same citation, that would be great. I've been trying, but I think I'm messing the references section up.

I also think we should consider the comments we've received above, especially the stylistic ones. I plan on going through and revising/editing my sections ASAP. Emm66 (talk) 22:54, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

More specifically, how do I get the license to upload an image and/or find an image that already has a license? Angela, where did you find your images? Emm66 (talk) 23:25, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Unless you are the author of a photo you want to upload to Wikipedia, I'd suggest sticking to images available at Wikimedia Commons. If there are some other images you'd like to use, feel free to ask me and I'll let you know if they are acceptable. See also IMAGE. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 00:39, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Hey I got all my pictures from the wiki commons. I guess just send me a link to the picture and I'll help you put it up.Angelalhan (talk) 15:29, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I figured it out. Emm66 (talk)

Good article nomination
I figured out how to do it, and I can nominate the article once I make my final additions. I realize that there is still work that needs to be done, but I figured we should get it nominated tonight to meet the deadline. I think that Dominique is still making changes, too, but I plan on nominating it very shortly unless I hear from her. Thanks! Emm66 (talk) 06:25, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi, yes I am still making changes, but that is okay I will make them throughout the day, so I think it should be fine. Thanks!Dagypt (talk) 16:35, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Using templates and makes it much easier
Hello all, impeccable work on the article so far, Kudos all round.

I would however give a few pointers on how to correctly CITE and how to use and this;, then whenever you want to ref page three you simply put in  and to ref page 21 use

Then we need to split the references section at the bottom in two: ==Notes== and ==References== in ==Notes== we'll stick the reflist template, and since it is a particularly large amount of references will split it into 4 columns by writing it like this: this will automatically list all the 's throughout the article and sort them into 4 even columns for us.

Under the ==References== We'll list each of the books like this:. That way when people see "Hopkins 2003, Page 3" listed under ==Notes== they'll know to look for it under ==References== for Hopkins name.

If you've done it all properly it should look like below.

Ref suggestions
Hey group members, The reference suggestions above seem daunting, but I just read through it, and I think if we all go through and correct our own citations, the correction is very do-able. I'm still a bit confused about how to list the Notes in columns, but I'm sure one of us can figure that out. Let me know what you think. Thanks! Emm66 (talk) 05:59, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Columns in refs are explained here: Template:Reflist. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:50, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Focus of article
You all have done great work on this article. However, reading through it, many parts don't really relate to globalization as such. The Communist Party's rise to power in 1949 was certainly a major change, and it is true that communism has always supported female equality, but most people wouldn't consider this "globalization". Honestly, I would simply call this article "Gender roles in modern China" or something similar. I know you are doing an assignment, but I thought I would chime in.--Danaman5 (talk) 06:29, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Renaming the article is within the scope of the assignment. Danaman5 raises a good point about the focus, I would like to hear input from the group members on that issue :) And I am sure the GA reviewer will want to chime in as well. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:49, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Renaming would be be the less appealing option at this point, as Women in the People's Republic of China should cover the topic of "Gender roles in modern China" (although admittedly at the moment it doesn't do so adequately). My preference would be to trim some of the extraneous background information, although I'm open to other suggestions from group members. Nikkimaria(talk) 21:58, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Instead of trimming (removing content), I'd strongly suggest moving the content to other articles (note for students: if well done this qualifies for extra credit). Thanks for pointing out the Women in the People's Republic of China article, I was unaware of it (and as it is not linked from this article, I am assuming neither was anybody else here). PS. Another comment on the focus: gender aspects are not limited to women - man and LGBT issues (Homosexuality in China) should be covered as well. PPS. In the end, the focus of this article is rather simple: how is the ongoing integration into the modern world system (aka globalization) affecting issues discussed by the sociology of gender field? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus22:24, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * So there are some issues with breadth to be dealt with...note to students: I'm going to be away for the weekend (post to my talk with any dire emergencies), and will probably be posting my completed detailed review when I get back. It would help a lot if you could deal with some of the issues already raised before that happens. Cheers, Nikkimaria(talk) 03:39, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Looking over the comments made about this article, do any of you think the article title should be to changed to something like The Impact of Globalization on Women in China in order to alleviate the concerns that were expressed about the phrase "gender aspects"? Or, as someone else commented,should we add these pieces to the other article? Which do you think is the best way to go?Ajr36 (talk) 15:32, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I like the name change plan.--Mariahjenae (talk) 19:11, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Ladies, I spoke with Piotr after class and advised him that I would change the name, however, he thought it would be best if I waited a day or two until everyone has agreed to do the name change so I won't do it today. Can you guys let me know what you think about the name change idea?Ajr36 (talk) 20:34, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry I forgot to add that there are a few other concerns that editors have commented on. 1 problem is that our references aren't consistent. If you guys want, I can change them all to APA style (that's all I know) or someone else could change them the style of their preference. Also there is a western bias to our article which I do not know how to address. Can any of the editors suggest what we should do to fix this problem?Ajr36 (talk) 20:34, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for summarizing the issues here. I hope that we will see a lively discussion here, you guys have quite a few things to discuss - yet there was no discussion in the past few days (Nov 19-23). There is still time to address everything, but our final grading deadline is approaching... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 23:04, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi all, I think that the name change is a great idea, as well as the change in citations to APA style. I can help with that also, but I want to be sure that our styles are consistent. I can also help with the page number references one reviewer pointed out, if someone else can explain it to me more clearly. I am also unsure how to rid our article of a Western bias - is there any way we can incorporate this perspective up front so that it does not to appear to be so biased? Just a thought. Thanks! Emm66(talk) 22:51, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Copyright problems
Parts of "Urbanization of young women workers" are too close to the source. PerWP:COPYVIO, Close paraphrasing and our course policies, the section needs to be immediately rewritten.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 23:11, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I've also noted a problem with close paraphrasing in the preliminary review above. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:52, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Corrections to be made
Hello all! (Sorry in advance for the long comments!) I wanted to first inform you guys that now that the title is changed there is a redirect page from our old title just to let you guys know, however we seem to have a ton of other issues that were identified and we really are starting to run out of time.

1. Categorized our article under the already formed categories of Chinese  women and Social History of China. The category command has to be done at the end of the article so if anyone adds something like external links or something, make sure the categories section is at the very end of whatever you added. 2. Added our page to the "See Other" section of the Women in the People's Republic of China article that the editors have been mentioning. This way our article is no longer an "orphan" and at least 1 article links to ours. I think we are supposed to do this to more articles that are related to ours. 3. Fixed the problem with my "Early female writers" headline as suggested and there is more content forthcoming for that section as well as the rest of my Literature and Feminism section so there will not be any 1 sentence paragraphs. This will be done shortly.
 * Today i did three things 'to address the problems that were commented on:


 * Now for the other problems listed by our reviewer in the "early draft comments" posted above, we have a lot of things to fix. I personally can do the following:


 * 1. Read wiki lead guidelines and write a lead that (hopefully) conforms


 * 2. I will also go through the article to find all of the internal links that are linked multiple times and undo the subsequent brackets.


 * 3. Finish my section and try to eliminate the bias in it.


 * Erika, I don't know if you were going to start working on the references, but I won't be able to get to them until next week. I can try but I don't think my workload will let me get to it sooner than that.


 * Once we address the copyright issue, fix the picture captions and references and I correct the issues I said I would do, I think we'll be in good shape. Again sorry for the long comments! I just want to get this project fixed and done! LOL!   Ajr36(talk) 20:06, 25 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay guys, I just wanted to update everyone, I did the lead section and took out the brackets that linked terms multiple times throughout the text. I'm going to try to find more categories to add to our article and also try to find other articles to link our article too so it won't be an orphan. I also think we really need to change our layout because the flow isn't that great. Let me know what you guys think about any of the changes. Ajr36 (talk) 04:46, 29 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you so much for doing all that work! I left my notes at school over break so I couldn't make any of the reference changes that I need to make for my section. I will get on that as soon as I have the chance. What can we do to help the flow of the article? Has anyone figured out how to get rid of the Western/college essay style bias that was mentioned?--Mariahjenae(talk) 05:25, 30 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think any of us got to our references either so don't worry about it! We'll get it done. As for the bias, I think Erika was proposing that we include some sort of statement in our intro that warns about the western bias. I really like this idea and I have some sources that we might be able to use, but I don't think that they will allow us to do this becuse it wouldn't seem "encyclopedic" enough.
 * For article flow, I'm not sure how well this would work, but I'm just going to throw out this suggestion. Maybe we could divide the article into 3 main sections- Imperial Era/ Confucianism, The Mao Era, and The Current Communist System. Then take each of piece of our article and fit it accordingly. That way we are only talking about certain concepts (confucianism, Cultural revolution, footbinding, etc.) once. I don't know though. Should we all try to meet to brainstorm and get the article fixed? Ajr36(talk) 19:24, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi everyone - I have received notifcation that some of my sections are too closely paraphrased and am VERY concerned about this threat of plagarism both on Wikipedia and in the course, so before I get to my citations as well as the Western bias statement, INEED to fix these things, as I was not aware that my paraphasing was not adequate for this assignment. I will be doing this tonight, as I am VERY concerned about this as well as the impact on our artcle and grade. I truly apologize for this and will have it fixed by the end of the night tonight. I will meet with Piotr myself to fix this issue, too, and if anyone else would like to join me, that would be welcomed and appreciated.

I think that we abosulutely should meet to discuss/brainstorm/get the article fixed. Especially to work on the flow and the bias in the article as a whole, this meeting is imperative. I can meet anytime after 8:30 this evening, tomorrow after 5:15, and after Wednesday at 5:45, except for Thursday between 4-5:15. (Sorry for the confusing schedule, but I want to be sure I make my availability clear!) Even if only three of us can meet, that would be more beneficial than not, obviously.

Please let me know your availabilities, and I will definitely have my portion fixed tonight! I'm with Angela - I definitely want to get this project completed sooner than later! Thanks! Emm66 (talk) 21:23, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Meeting with Piotr
Hi all - I just wanted to let everyone know that I'll be meeting with Piotr after lecture on Wednesday, so if anyone would like to address any specifics about our article then, please feel free. Thanks! Emm66 (talk) 03:34, 1 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi ladies, I wanted everyone to know that I talked to Piotr after class yesterday about the western bias problem and whether we should add something about it. He made a great suggestion which is to add a section at the beginning or end of the article describing western bias. I thought that was a good idea, so as soon as we get the layout finalized we can add that section. Class tomorrow is not obligatory, so can everyone meet tomorrow in the library during regular class time from 2-3? I'm also available tomorrow after that until 4:15, Thursday anytime from 10:45am to 5:30pm or anytime before class on Friday.


 * If you guys can't do any of those times, I can try to meet with you guys at a time that is best for you but PLEASE let me know in advance because I have a daughter in preschool and I have to make arrangements for her to be cared for outside of the times that I specified. You guys can call me or email me but DONT TEXT! My phone is having a problem receiving incoming texts.Ajr36 (talk) 16:27, 1 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I think meeting tomorrow during the regular class time is a great idea. Where in the library? --130.49.24.170 (talk) 18:31, 1 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Wow Amber thanks for all the work you've done! Meeting at the library sounds like a good plan. Should we meet at the ground floor to make it easier? Angelalhan (talk) 18:52, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

More corrections to be made
Hey girls! So from the detailed review made previously I went down the list and tried to fix the things on the list but I didn't have time to finish. So from that review these are the ones that still need to be worked on:

Writing and formatting

 * The article is still in need of some general copy-editing, including grammar, punctuation, hyphens and dashes, redundancies, flow, clarity, and generally well-written prose
 * Make sure not to duplicate information within the article. Coordinate between group members to improve coherency and cohesiveness
 * The article needs to be categorized
 * References should be formatted more consistently
 * Generally speaking, short one-paragraph sections would be better merged into larger sections
 * Short one- or two-sentence paragraphs should be avoided
 * Try to avoid passive voice

Accuracy and verifiability

 * Web sources should have access dates and publishers/authors
 * Lee and Larson need page numbers

Broad

 * The new title is better, but titles are subject to WP:Naming conventions, in particular the part about formatting. Also, the article should be tightened slightly to focus more narrowly on globalization.

Neutrality

 * This article is fairly Western-centric - be sure to accommodate other viewpoints
 * Maintain an encyclopedic tone at all times
 * Do not use original research or engage in argumentation - this is not written in the same way as a university essay

And from that web page I went down the list to look for words that were supposed to avoided. And from that list these are the words that are still found in our article:

Only, just, However, although, whereas, maintain, feel, report, Claim, say, Beautiful, exciting, global,important, the most, influential, leader, major, popular, primary

So I guess we'll meet tomorrow to discuss more about article. See you then! Angelalhan (talk) 22:41, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Meeting
Hi everyone! I can meet tomorrow, but I am supposed to meet with Piotr after lecture. I would change my meeting with him, but in order to be sure that the copyright issues are all cleared up, I really want to meet with him in person ASAP. Is anyone able to meet before lecture? I am available between 12 and 2. If not, I can just work independently on the article from 12 to 2 and then you can fill in whatever I wasn't able to accomplish. Please let me know - you can also text me at 724.554.9088 if you'd like! Thanks! ErikaEmm66 (talk) 00:45, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey girls, I just wanted to let you know that I met with Piotr and everything should be cleared up with the copyright issues -also, Amber, I'm not sure if you got my text, but he agreed that the Women's Literature sections you created don't necessarily fit with our article, but they are good, credible sections, so he suggested that you turn them into another article or add them to an existing article for extra credit. -Erika Emm66 (talk) 18:22, 7 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for letting me know Erika! No I didn't get your text. I'm sorry. I still have problems receiving incoming texts on my phone. They work sometimes but not others. I also will be getting the western bias section done hopefully by tonight. If not, tomorrow evening by the latest. Has everyone updated their references? I'll look at what everyone else has done and if my references are not compatible I will change them so that they conform to what everyone else has done. Ajr36 (talk) 19:32, 7 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey ladies! Read over the Western Bias section change anything you guys may want to. The reference I used is there if you guys need it for anything. I also took out my section on on literature which should help with the breadth of the article and hopefully this will help the article flow overall. TTYL Ajr36 (talk) 23:30, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Almost Done
Hey girls! We're almost there in making this a good article. There are pretty much only 3 things we still need..


 * The article is still in need of some general copy-editing, including grammar, punctuation, hyphens and dashes, redundancies, flow, clarity, and generally well-written prose
 * (What the reviewer said)copy-editing means checking for style and grammar problems. The best way to do this would be to read it out loud or to get someone else to read it out loud, as editing the same page for a long time can make it difficult to catch style errors.


 * Maintain an encyclopedic tone at all times
 * (What the reviewer said)Encyclopedic tone is a widespread problem in student-created articles, which tend to be either overly academic or too conversational. You want to avoid arguing points, inserting opinions/emotions, making judgments, using too much jargon or colloquialisms - in short, present the facts in a neutral way (like an encyclopedia) instead of presenting a point of view (like an essay), and do so using appropriate language.


 * Make sure not to duplicate information within the article. Coordinate between group members to improve coherency and cohesivenes

Could you guys look over your respective sections to make sure these things are in check? Thanks Angelalhan(talk) 01:59, 10 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi everyone, I will be sure to do the aforementioned things to my sections today and would be happy to check over the entire article to look for cohesiveness and the encyclopedic tone, too.  Thanks so much for doing the Western bias section, and I can also copy-edit that secion one last time, too. If anyone else needs me to do anything as far  as their sections or the article as a whole, please let me know, because I had most of my finals this week and am not too bogged down for next week. Thanks! Emm66(talk) 17:13, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * This article is almost ready to be passed; however, in addition to the concerns that Angelalhan has pointed out above, the title of the article is still not compatible with our naming conventions. This needs to be fixed too. Cheers,Nikkimaria (talk) 17:36, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The particular section regarding naming that should be consulted is NAMING. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 18:55, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks Piotrus for the direct link! I fixed the title according to the naming convention. Just trying to finish up with the editing of the articleAngelalhan (talk) 21:20, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The new title is correct, good job. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:38, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Hey girls I found this site that will help us write in an encyclopedic tone..

http://www.swbcommunity.org/swbc/index.php/Help:Write_Encyclopedia_articles

I think to successfully do this we need to pretend we're writing to a person that does not know anything we do. So I guess assuming nothing. This is hard for me too so I'm going to read this article again. Good Luck we have one more day.. 8]Angelalhan (talk) 21:50, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * See also Writing_better_articles. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus23:07, 10 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry that I have been MIA since writing the Western Bias section. I had a paper and two finals yesterday so I haven't had the time to finsih up. Angela, thanks for the rundown on what we need to get acommplished. I am leaving the library now, so hopefully I can catch up with you guys in class or after. Ajr36 (talk) 19:17, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

This is looking much better! I'd say that the cohesion has been fixed. There are some minor tone and style problems remaining; once those have been addressed, I'll be glad to pass the article (I believe Piotrus has agreed to accept any article passed before Monday...). Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 22:38, 11 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Could you possibly give us an idea of where these issues are so we have a better idea of where to look? Thank you so much for you help! --Mariahjenae (talk) 16:00, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The "copy-editing" concern extends to most of the article - my most recent read-through found minor grammatical errors in every section. I would suggest reading each others' sections out loud to check for clarity and style. For issues of tone, I would suggest concentrating on the lead, "Western Bias" (which should be "Western bias"), "Married life", "Trafficking of women", "Confucianism and Communism", "Population control", and "Rural areas". Nikkimaria (talk) 01:33, 13 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks ladies for editing my portions for me. the article sounds really good. I saw the comments that our reviewer made today and I tried to copy the article and paste it into word and get grammatical help from the spelling and grammar check, but this did not turn up anything helpful. I have to leave the library now to catch the last bus home for the night, so if any of you can reread the article and find any grammar problems please do so. I will be able to do it early tomorrow, but I think it will be to late. I put a message on piotr's talk page letting him know that we only had minor issues but that we don't look to have gotten our good article status by tonight so hopefully, our grade will still reflect our work. I want to say that everyone did a great job on this article and I am proud of the way that it turned out. Good luck on all of your finals and Happy holidays to everyone!! Ajr36(talk) 01:33, 14 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I second what Amber said - great job, everyone, and thank you reviewers for all of your help. It seems that we were all trying to edit things at the same time, because I was editing things and often my work was overridden once I tried to submit it - I think my editing was taking too long!  Piotr mentioned that he will take our improvements considering the reviewers' comments into consideration in class on Friday, so I think that even if we do not receive GA status by tomorrow, our grade will not be affected.  I just re-read the article several times and could not find anythinkg further with it - I also asked Nikkimaria to check and make any further recommendations ASAP so that we could make the changes.  Also - I emailed the group - does anyone know when we did the group member reviews? I did not think I missed any obligatory sessions other than Dec. 4th, and Mariah said she thought it was just after we submitted for GA review, but I don't know when we would have done them that I missed. Please let me know if you have any idea! Thanks so much again, and great job! Emm66 (talk) 02:42, 14 December 2009 (UTC)